HS baseball vs Travel/showcase team

Ok, you must be on our team. 

 

We aren't that good.  In fact, we stink.  (Although they did take our best player and move him up).  Our summer team could beat us without question. 

 

In my view, HS ball it isn't about development.  No way do the coaches have the time and resources to truly develop players.  

 

At the end of the day, it is HS baseball.  Its about competing for your school.  Building relationships with your classmates.  Maybe having a little fun.  Impressing the girls -- they even have girls show up to the games. 

 

Do a search.  There are a lot of threads on the topic. 

Slow down, take a deep breath and relax.  You're getting caught up in the rush to the next step you're going to miss enjoying the right now.  This sometimes happens where a HS team isn't as good as a travel team.  It's not the end of the world but it's something that can be used to teach many lessons - patience, leadership, how bad do you want it among many others.  Is HS baseball mandatory to reach the next level?  No it's not but I believe, and I think many others will agree, that it's an important part.  Some will say it's a red flag to college coaches he didn't play HS baseball because he will be seen as an elitist, someone who can't work with others, etc..... Then there will be some that will say if he's talented enough he will get a chance irregardless of his attitude.

 

My advice is that your son needs to stick out freshman ball, work his way up to JV this year and try to be on varsity the year after that.

HS baseball doesn't replace travel. Does your son's school have a summer team that he will be pressured to play for? If not, why can't he do both? Is it your son who thinks his game is too high level for the school team or is it you? Does the school ever move freshmen and sophs up?

 

Others here I am sure will articulate much better than I can why your son should play for his school. I will just say, he will regret it if he doesn't.

So your son is too good for these scrubs? Ok I'm sorry didn't mean to say that. Well, not really. Look this happens to many kids every year. They come from a great travel team. Great uniforms. Really good players around them. It's just awesome. Then they get to HS and they are surrounded with kids that are nowhere near as good they are. It's like they are stepping down.

 

But then they get around those varsity players who are 3 sometimes 4 years older. And the fact they are stronger, more mature, more experienced trumps the travel ball experience. The player gets to learn some humility. The player gets to be coached by someone different. The player gets to compete against older players. The player gets to throw 5 6 days a week. He gets to see another side of the game.

 

My son when he was in the 7th grade played on a great Travel Team. Comprised of kids from all over NC. I let them come and scrimmage my JV team. It was a total blow out. They killed my JV team. It wasn't even close. So I know what you are talking about. The next time they came to scrimmage my JV I let some Jr's who didn't play play down. A couple pitched. Total different story.

 

Let your kid have the experience. It's 4 months out of the year. Let the coaches get to know him. Let a different set of eyes get on him. Let someone else get a chance to coach him up. Let him become part of his HS program. When he is a older in the program and he is playing with those guys he will be glad he did. Its just my opinion. I just can't see a kid not being part of his HS program when he could help it be a better team and enjoy the opportunity. And yes it can be initially a step down. But it won't stay that way.

Welcome to the site, Adrian!

 

A couple of weeks ago, there was a very good thread about this topic. Here's a link to it:

http://community.hsbaseballweb...l-baseball-necessary

 

Best of luck to your son!

We are experiencing the same thing (travel team superior to freshman team) but my son is taking the stance that this is about representing his school, playing with friends & having fun - though watching 5-6 errors a game isn't exactly fun. He's just not worrying about the high school side of things and enjoying representing the school. 

 

The tricky part will come in summer, when the HS coaching staff will be expecting all of these kids to play in the summer program and there will be conflicts w/ travel ball. Will be very interesting to see how that works out as the 5-6 best players are all on high level travel teams that will definitely have scheduling issues. 

Agree with the above. I'd also suggest checking out a couple of the school's Varsity  games to see how they  look. The difference can be truly vast.   You could also look at MaxPreps to see what kids are playing on HS teams in your league. If you know the top players in your area, you'll probably see them on rosters of teams that your son's school plays.

 

I'd also respectfully suggest that you remove "we" from your baseball vocabulary.  Now that your son is a high school player that "we" should become "he".

Why are there so many on the pathway up, but very far from being a junior/senior in HS who view everything as whether they are a necessary part of a path to playing in college?

If we were to accept that a freshman in HS or his parent should be making decisions on what in baseball gets them to college, how about we start with leadership.  One aspect of playing in college is to be a leader. That in part means you work to make every player on that team feel included and you do everything in your power to create a baseball experience, environment and challenge which can  make each and every teammate "better." Leadership, or the lack of it, is often the difference between successful college teams and those with plenty of talent but which never experience success.

So, in partial answer to the OP, my thoughts would be whether this is as much "growing" as a player as it is "growing" into a teammate, with the opportunity for a player to be a "leader" as contrasted with being  out for himself.

The other point I might make is that no matter how good we think our sons might be as a HS freshman/sophomore, the longer they play, the more likely the game is going to "humble" them. When the game does that, it often times much more than talent which is required to get out of the depths of the humility. It takes heart, courage, mental toughness and the like. Sometimes it is the breadth of experiences, many of which can be shared experiences, which build that background which makes the difference in success or not beyond HS.

But, for me, the important aspects are to allow a son, every son, to experience all there is in baseball and the love each minute, in the present. Making baseball decisions as  HS freshman with "college baseball" in mind or  what happens in 4-5 years really does not seem like it should be part of the process, for me at least.

If your son is so good, why is he "only" on the freshman team?

AND boy does this apply....my son was nowhere near the OPs son's level as a freshman but did make "swing" player...meaning JV but could get called up occasionally for Varsity. The comment above reminds me of watching my 5'8" 145lb son strike out in 3 straight heaters by then Sr. Clate Schmidt, who is now at Clemson. My son said, "Dad, i don't even think i saw the ball once it left his hand ,it had to be 93-95mph.....He won that battle"

 

Makes me laugh a bit when i think about it.

All the above advice is sound.  Have fun play HS ball and club ball in the summer. Some of the most important lessons a player can learn from baseball don't come from being on the best team.  That said, here is a practical question:

 

Who would you play for or with if your skipped HS ball?  At least where I am, all the best players on the best club teams I have seen play for their respective high schools. So if your son quits HS ball, he would probably end up playing against kids who want a more rec ball experience or were cut from their high school teams.  The quality of play could be much worse.

Those "step downs" offer opportunities to "step up."

If 2 or 3 good travel team organizations put together a spring league it would give kids an option. But even then it would probably be limited to a couple of hundred mile radius.

I don't think people outside California quite understand the programs out here. We have kids getting D1 scholarships who got ten at-bats their junior year. My 2018's Varsity team is currently ranked #20 in CIF and has ZERO freshman or sophomores on Varsity, and only two Juniors with more than ten AB's after 16 games.

 

At any good school in Orange County there are at least three teams w/ 20+ kids, and the best schools have FOUR teams w/ 20+ kids (Freshman, Frosh / Soph, JV & Varsity). These are schools with 1800-3000 kids, and 80-100 freshmen trying out annually. Many a great travel ball player is cut from the HS program. Not saying its right or wrong, but its the reality of So. Cal high school baseball. So yes, there are plenty of "good" freshmen who "only" play on the frosh team. 

Adrian,

my hometown is Adrian. Take every game, every team to learn something about the opposing pitcher, about yourself about the movement of the baseball, about the field.

You may see the pitcher again in two years. 

 

Remember the arm action, the spin, freeze it in your mind. Father or mother watch where stands in the box. Did he adjust to the speed? Use the game to LEARN!

No excuses

 

Bob

Because the kid belongs on the freshman team. Dad has the "my kid is better than all the high school players" attitude because junior was a 14u stud. When my kids were in high school I saw a lot of freshman legends in their own mind and their parents get humbled. 

I don't understand why there's a high school versus travel. High school is played in the spring. Travel is played in the summer. High school offers the opportunity to practice and play five or six days per week. 

 

My son played played on travel teams who would have kicked his high school team's behind. But high school was still competitive and fun. The team (a large classification high school) that had seventeen losing seasons in twenty years won two conference titles and came in second during my son's three varsity seasons. 

 

My my son became aware he was a college prospect when good 17/18u showcase  travel teams approached him. It happened after he played JV as a freshman, starred in 16u travel as a fourteen year old and it was obvious he was going to start varsity as a soph. If your son was a current college prospect he wouldn't be on the stinky freshman team. 

Adrian,

My son played on a very competitive 14U (8th Grade) Travel Baseball team in Southern California when he was younger.  The following year, the majority of the players on his team were playing Varsity or JV on their respective HS teams as 9th graders.  My son played on the Frosh Team, and he was okay with it, in fact, he really enjoyed playing with friends that he hadn't played with in years.  Besides, he played varsity the next three years.  It's not how you start, it's how you finish! 

According to your profile, you live in California as well.  High School baseball is very competitive in our state and there are several great travel programs here too.  Most of the upper echelon players compete with their high school team in the Spring, and spend the Summer's with their travel teams.  A few good prospects have the opportunity to play on a Scout Team during the Fall.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that you'd be making a mistake to pull your kid from his high school team.  Let him enjoy his HS years, it's going to go by FAST! 

Yes, freshman ball to Varsity is a whole different level.

In our area around Chicago, as well as other more populated areas of the country.

Many varsity teams would beat your typical travel team

       
       
All comes down to how we define great I suppose.  The way I define great none of these kids could be cut from freshman teams.  And the OP - taking their word - said it is NOT a good program.  And another thing I think those of us from the chicago area fully understand what great baseball looks like.  I read something lately that the joliet-naperville area is in top five in the nation for producing pro ballplayers.  And the Texans on here will say people don't understand, the Floridians say we don't understand.  Let's just agree there is a lot of great baseball in a lot of places.

I still think that someday in the not too distant future,  HS baseball will go the way of HS soccer.  We're not there yet, but I think the day is coming.  The best soccer players just don't play HS soccer anymore, by and large.  The difference between soccer and baseball, though, is that major league soccer, with its soccer academies, is trying to bring the level of play in the USA up to world standards.  MLB doesn't feel the need to really intervene in the youth arena in order to improve the level of play in USA baseball.  So you won't have that.  But the whole travel, showcase, scout team, industry is more and more the key to reaching the next level anyway.   And there is more and more money to be made if these events can also run in the Spring.   And we all know that money eventually talks......

       
       
I get your point slugger.  But I think hs baseball will be fine.  Just like AAU and hs basketball have co existed so will hs/travel baseball.  Mostly because the college teams are playing in the spring and don't have much time to scout then anyway.  High school for fun and challenge of it.  Travel ball for development.

The great thing about HS baseball, at least in my son's case, is that it is NOT about reaching the next level. It's about having fun with your friends and taking pride in your school colors.It's bigger than yourself and your stats. 

I see that as a possibility, maybe even better than a 50/50 chance of happening eventually, but it would take a LONG time. Or rather, we might see the D1 prospects/MLB recruitable super-elite players increasingly deciding to skip HS baseball. But it would be a slow process, and might not happen at all. As others have noted, MLB does not seem interested in intervening in HS baseball...yet

First of all, I don't know much about soccer, but I do read the local paper, which covers an area of maybe 3 hundred thousand people.

 

Here's a redacted list of college commits published the other day (BTW I know of one boy they missed so there could be more):

 

BOYS SOCCER

Jose Cxxxx, Txxxxx: Dominican
Cesar Fxxxxx, Mxxxxx: Harvard
Alejandro Gxxxxx, Mxxxxx: CSU Northridge
Javier Mxxxxx, Pxxxxxx: UC Berkeley
Evan xxxx, Mxxxxxx: Cal Poly

GIRLS SOCCER

Alexis xxxx, Mxxxxxxxxxx: San Francisco State
Miranda Gxxxxxx, Mxxxxxx: Cal State East Bay
Symone xxxxxx, Wxxxxx: Cal State Stanislaus
Emily xxxxxx, xxxxxxxx: San Francisco State
Dani xxxxxxx, Mxxxxxxxx: UC San Diego
Brianne xxxxxxx, Mxxxxxxxxxx: Oregon
Yvette xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx: William Jessup University
Christen Sxxxxxx, Sxxxxxx, Cal State Monterey
Savannah Sxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx: High Point University (N.C.)
Jillian xxx xxxxxx: University of Pacific
Brooklyn Vxxxxx, xxxxxx: Colorado

 

Now like I said I don't know much about soccer so it may be that there are even more kids than these who didn't play HS soccer and are going to college, and surely most or all of these kids also played club soccer, but clearly based in this one could say that HS soccer is not quite dead yet.

 

As for HS Baseball, the buzz here in NorCal last week was about the Boras Classic, a HS event featuring 16 local teams, and is now moving onto the Elite Eight, also all about HS teams.  Meanwhile in the travel world the biggest event of the spring, the Super NIT, is this weekend at BLD, Twin Creeks, and Woodland.  Well over  a hundred teams are participating, not one of them over 14u.  No HS-age teams at all.  So yeah HS baseball maybe losing importance, but around here it's not dead quite yet.

Guys, I think you are all missing the point.  HS baseball is about impressing the girls. 

 

 

Yeah, right now in California the tournament providers shut down all 15U and above competition during the HS season.  That's because the CIF rules prohibit outside participation during the season of play -- I regard that as a  good thing, by the way.  I am not advocating the demise of HS baseball at all. 

 

Also, are you sure all those college commits actually played for their HS varsity?  We have a couple college soccer commits at our HS. One of them  only played for the school frosh year.  He's an academy player and an elite one.  Can't remember where he's headed, but he was heavily recruited. 

 

The thing about most HS baseball teams is that a good portion of the players on most even decent HS team are what I call "social players."  They are not elite talents.  They are not that hungry to play at the next level and they don't have the kind of work ethic it takes to really truly hone their skills.  They are good kids, having a good time, playing mostly competent, if not stellar baseball.  Sure, HS baseball will always exist cause those kids will always exist and they are the bread and butter of HS sports, including HS baseball.   

 

The question is whether the kids who aren't social players in this sense will stick with HS baseball over the long haul.  I think probably yes.  But it's clear that there is even more money to be made by those who might think of siphoning them off  from the HS game.   

 

 

As far as I know, yes. HS girls soccer especially is pretty big around here - one team has been nationally ranked the past couple years.  Most of these girls commit when they are sophomores, at the latest, same as softball and volleyball.

 

I agree that NCTB shutting down HS ages during HS season is good. And I believe the big dog in showcase ball, NorCal, is also shut down. Don't know about the others and don't know about All World etc. But it seems that in our area, for now there really is no such thing as travel during HS season. Other areas may be different.

What is a typical travel team?

 

Reason I ask is because maybe we (PG) don't see a lot of "typical" travel teams.  Then again we see thousands of teams each summer and fall.

 

Some are much better than others and the teams come from every baseball hotbed in the country.  For the most part these teams are put together with the best HS players.  Some of these teams will have 15-20 or more players committing to DI colleges and/or drafted.  

 

There are no high school teams that have that much talent.  The top summer programs recruit the best possible players.  Some will have pitching staffs of 10 pitchers or more and they all throw in the 90s.  In fact, I could make an argument that the very best Travel Teams could beat most all of the DI colleges, let alone a high school team. It is why all the top DI schools and MLB scouts follow these teams so closely.

 

If anyone wants examples, I will provide them.  Why do we always have to compare High School and Travel?  They do not compete.  They are both very important!   

 

That said, there are many great HS programs.  I wouldn't be able to guess what a "typical" HS team is either.  Obviously, like everything else, there is a big difference from the best to the worst.  

 

Bottom line... In the spring it is HS baseball.  If you are a high school student and a baseball player, you play HS baseball.  It is extremely important in so many ways.  I just can't understand why anyone would think they are too good to play HS baseball.  

 

Mike Trout and nearly every MLB player played HS baseball.  They weren't all on great HS teams with great HS coaches.  Lebron James played HS basketball, why wasn't he too good to play In high school?  If someone thinks their kid is too good for high school baseball, they simply are being a fool.  There is much more to baseball than just thinking about recruiting all the time.

 

What is a bigger waste of time? Practicing and playing on a bad team with bad coaches or not playing at all?  I'm really surprised how often this topic is brought up here.  Are there that many people with their head up their a$$. If your kid is too good to play HS baseball, then he is also too good for my team.

Thank you all for your valuable input. Much appreciated.

 

For those who somehow interpreted my comments to mean that I think my son is too good to play HS ball, that is not at all what I was saying.

 

My son is pretty good, but he's no stud.

 

All I was saying that the level of play in HS is not what it is on most travel teams, and ever since he started playing, way back when, the object was to keep improving and learning. I do not see that happening in HS.

I always said I would rather he was the worst player on a great team than the best player on a lousy team.

 

However, I do understand the point most of you make here. I guess the HS playing experience is more valuable than the skills he will or will not gain or improve upon.

 

Bingo.

Some of the best players in the country play for great travel teams but crappy high school teams.  I'm pretty sure the MLB is littered with guys like that.  My advice is to not feed into your son's dissatisfaction.  Many of the previous comments are spot on.  High school ball isn't only about development or even recruiting. 

 

One other thing to consider is the fact that travel teams don't play over the high school season.  If they do, it's likely a team of misfits.  I'm pretty sure the top travel teams are shut down until May. Stick with it and be a stud on a bad team.

HS ball is what you make of it.  Good team or bad, how good a baseball player you become is really dependent on the your level of commitment and drive.  If you truly dedicate yourself to get the best out of yourself (and do the physical and mental work it takes), I think you can be your best regardless of what is happening around you. Sure, it is harder to push yourself when those around you don't care or aren't very good, but in those circumstances you have to challenge yourself.  It is that attitude that leads to success.  In fact, without it, you will not meet your potential even if you play for the best HS or club team in the country. 

I'm glad you are a fan of HS baseball PG. And I'm sure you guys will never do anything to undermine HS ball.  That's good.  But I do fear that the lure of the almighty dollar may eventually tempt some players in the whole travel/showcase industry to take steps that might well start to undermine HS ball.  I'm not saying that would be a good thing.  I think it would be a bad thing, frankly.  It's a really good thing that the CIF prevents participation in club sports during the same season of play.  If not for that, I think that would already be happening here in California. 

Following up SluggerDad's point about here in California - the Redshirt League started a few weeks back using a combination of HS transfers who aren't eligible yet, redshirt JC & college players and a general mix of talent who wanted to play competitive ball but for one reason or another couldn't play or didn't want to play for their "regular" team. First domino to fall in this regard. 

 

Amongst our local high schools the issue isn't whether or not to play HS ball in the spring - but how the kids handle their HS coaches in the summer & fall when they have travel ball games & events that conflict with the off-season HS schedule. Not all HS coaches are open to their players taking part in travel (my 2018's frosh coach calls travel ball "a joke"), and there are insinuations that if you miss time to go to JO's or travel tournaments instead of playing for the school there will be negative repercussions come spring. We shall see how that works in the coming months...the inability for the coaches to share nicely would be where the real talented kids are going to have to make some difficult choices. 

You are painting a very broad brush by suggesting you don't think your son will improve in HS.  I'm now under the impression that you believe the entire HS program stinks, and the competition that they face stinks, not just his freshman team.

 

I hear how competitive California is, and I know it's true...so how exactly will your son not improve playing in such an environment?  I'm so confused.

 

Here in Virginia our HS team has played a whopping eight games.  In those eight games we have already faced teams that have pitching committed to UVA (multiple), ODU, VCU, South Carolina, Richmond, Tennessee, and tomorrow we will see Boston College and/or NC State.  We've also seen a couple D3 kids and a likely D1 caliber arm that just hasn't committed yet.  And I'm only talking about the pitching!

 

So, call me crazy, but I think you can get better competing at that level.  (In California, no less)

If things like  the redshirt league that GoldenSombrero referred to above really catch on, that could siphon off some talent from the HS game.

 

http://www.theredshirtleague.com

 

As long as the CIF holds firm here in California against allowing kids in HS ball to participate in Club ball during their HS seasons, that will stop the floodgates from opening, I think.  

 

But you know there was pressure this past year to try to get the CIF to abandon the restriction on kids playing for both their HS teams and their club teams.   The argument was the CIF should NOT be in the role of parent.  It should NOT be trying to do time management for  kids and their families.

 

But the real issue, I think, is to protect HS sports from predatory outside organizations.   Cause you know a kid doing both would often give his club team priority over his HS team.  Not in all cases, maybe, but in many.  

 

I doubt this  issue will completely go away any time soon. 

 

 

To your point, GoHeels:  2019Son is getting ready to go to high school next year in SoCal. The high school he is going to attend has a strong baseball program. For instance, last year's graduating class (2014) sent 10 players to D1 baseball (3 to USC, 1 apiece to UCLA, Stanford, Arizona, Dartmouth, Bradley, Georgetown, Davidson -- a few were walk-ons but all 10 are on the rosters of those schools this year) and 2 more to D3 baseball. That was a single graduating class at a single high school. Now, that was an unusually strong class, but many of the schools in their league have multiple D1 players graduating each year.

My son is in a red-shirt league as a HS junior because he didn't make Varsity, he didn't want to transfer or hang it up. Competition is decent, it's like Varsity teams without an ace pitcher. No one throws much over 80 I'd say. Ages range from 15 to over 20. None of the kids are replacing HS with this league as far as I know.