HS Freshman Players: Sit Varsity Bench or Play JV??

First of all, I would have any communication with the coaches be by your son. Stay out of it as regards talking to the coaches. Most people believe that it is better to play at a lower level then to sit at a higher level, and I also subscribe to that theory. On the othen hand, he is getting practice with a better caliber of player, so there is some off-set.

Your son needs to work as hard as he can in practice, and make the most of his opportunities with the JV team. He should also probably have a conversation with the coach eventually if he continues to not get any playing time, so that he can better understand why the coach wants him on varsity. It's a tough situation, but also a good lesson for his future.

One other thing, DO NOT make this a high school ball vs. summer travel ball issue. High school coaches generally do not take those arguements well.

While some say you will gain invaluable experience even sitting on the varsity bench, I'm one to say there's not better experience than what you get while playing.

HS seasons are too short to figure out a plan half way through. IMHO, I would have YOUR SON, very diplomatically, ask the coach if he could "some innings" in JV games if he is not going to get them on varsity. This leaves the door cracked open for varsity innings if needed. From your post that sounds like the plan, the only difference is that your sons "voice" is part of the equation. That "voice" shows initiative and desire, something that cannot be displayed while sitting on the bench.

I would look at a few factors.

1. If he is going to play a lot in the summer, then playing everyday at HS is less important than if it was his only baseball.

2. If pitching looks to be his ticket, then he probably will be working with the best pitching coach at the varsity level. He should also take every opportunity possible to pitch at the JV level.

3. If a position looks to be his ticket, he should look at what will be opening up for him next season at the varsity level. Sitting the bench for a year to claim a spot for the following season is more useful than sitting a season, and having the same thing happen the next season.

4. There is something to be learned by sitting for most of a season and working your tail off in practice every day. If he is planning to play beyond HS, he should look to position himself to play and show his best during his junior year. If that takes sitting a year to secure a future spot, it may be worth it.

"Coach, could I get some innings on the JV team so I can remain sharp for when you need me on the mound?"

This is a team oriented approach. Plus the coach's response might indicate whether he's going to get a shot on the mound for the varsity.

This actually happened to me, during my Sophomore year though... It was miserable, and really was a critical thing in my youthful decision making when my Basketball coach (who was also the Men's golf coach) asked me to come out for the Golf team... I gave up the game I loved to play a another game I liked... Had a blast playing golf in HS and in college, but looking back, I wish I had never left baseball...

My advice: Get him to play on JV!

"2. If pitching looks to be his ticket, then he probably will be working with the best pitching coach at the varsity level. He should also take every opportunity possible to pitch at the JV level."

You California guys are drastically overestimating the ability of the coaching staffs here in Central FL. There are some schools that have a great head coach and a good assistant. There are plenty of of schools w a good coach and a patchwork staff. There are WAY better pitching coaches making their coin giving lessons than working on a HS staff.

I can sympathize with your situation, but in the final analysis, it isn't your call. Just help your son deal with whatever difficulties the situation presents.

My son is now a senior. When he was a freshman, he was pulled up to varsity early in the season to catch when the senior starting catcher was tapped as the closer in close games. For a stretch of about two weeks my son had zero at bats and caught a few half innings.

It took its toll, for sure. It is hard to not have live game at-bats in the middle of the season.

On the other hand, he was just a freshman. He was asked to contribute in a specific way that the team needed. He was part of a deep playoff run (though he never played during those games) and he practiced at the higher level all year.

As it turned out, the senior catcher was a good enough arm that they soon put him in the starting rotation, so my son was able to catch a game a week for the last half of the regular season. That was good experience.

I was of mixed feelings all along about him mostly sitting on varsity, but I kept those feelings to myself. It all worked out.

Congrats to your son for making varsity. You don't know how this will play out, so be positive with him and help him learn how to be a great teammate as a bench player - something he probably won't experience for the rest of his high school career!

If the player's good enough to make varsity as a freshman, then he'll just have to keep working hard in practice. They're on the radar screen already. When I hear about freshman complaining they're not starting over 17-18 yr olds, I take it with a grain of salt because they have to learn to deal with it and that their time will come and pay their dues. Unless a freshman is an all-out better player than any other upperclassmen on the varsity or is on varsity to pitch, they shouldn't even be on varsity bench. They should be on jv or freshman ball getting their innings in. All I know is my son had to pay his dues on freshman and jv ball as well as a lot of other players since the varsity teams over his four years were senior dominated rosters and mostly seniors played. He was frustrated too in his junior year when he had to start the season with 7 other juniors on jv but he kept at it and got called up and eventually won out a starting spot and played everyday on varsity.

My son's situation is a little different, but I'd like to make a point. He is a freshman who made varsity as a pitcher. He is a starter, so the play time isn't an issue. He plays JV as a position player. The varsity coach lets him know that he does not have to dress for varsity if he is not scheduled to pitch, but I have told my son that he needs to dress for the varsity games even when he isn't going to play and it doesn't conflict with the JV games.

It is a very unusual for a freshman to make the varsity team. I want my son to appreciate that fact and show the coach that he appreciates it and wants to support his team mates.

I do think it is important to get play time, but be careful that you do not make the coach think that you are not appreciative of being on the varsity team. Varsity needs guys to play against in practice, they need backups in case of injury or game situations (pinch hitters, pinch runners, etc). All this is part of being a team player. If the coach did not think your son was capable of playing at the varsity level, he would not be on that team. Do not let the coach think you do not appreciate this opportunity.

We had a pitcher on my son's team two years ago in a similar situation, but he was a junior at the time so I am sure it was even more frustrating. He had several strong starters ahead of him...they had him on the varsity roster, but I don't know if he got more than just a couple of innings on varsity. They had him do what your coach is going to do for your son: he practiced with the varsity but did most of his pitching down with the JV. To the best of my knowledge, he worked hard and did not complain, or at least not openly. The next year, his senior year, he ended up being the number two starter on varsity, going 6 - 0 with an ERA in the mid two's. He threw a two hit shutout mid-season against the team that eventually beat our number one starter in the county tournament finals.

He had average HS velocity, but located his pitches well with a good two-seamer and a nice curve he could throw for strikes. So it turned out well for him, even though I'm sure he was not real happy his junior year.

Just curious about freshman playing varsity as pitchers, I know from playing some teams from Ga. that you guys have some great players at the 14U level, I imagine older players as well. Is it that your sons are one of these early maturing kids that are physically like an 17, 18 y.o.? Do they throw high 80s+. I know some kids we played from the East Cobb Astros 14U looked physically like 18 y.o.
Also what are the freshman teams like? Up north in my area there is no J.V. If you are a Junior and you don't make Varsity its too bad (I wish they had J.V. could help develop kids). As far as playing time I want my son to play the best competition he can hang with and still be successful, they put a kid up to varsity in a school by us that was a great freshman pitcher he got roughed up on varsity , what does that do to a kids confidence? To me baseball has a lot to do with confidence.
Anyway just wondering.

My son is around 5'9" and weighs 155-160. He is not one of those man-child's. We live very close to EC, and I know those Astro's guys you are talking about. My son is definetly not one of them. His situation is such that he is pretty good, and that his high school has not had a top notch pitching staff. He throws low to mid 80's with a good tail on the fastball with a decent change and a good slider he can throw for strikes. He also throws strikes and does not get rattled. He pitched last week against the #3 AAAAA team in the state and beat them. He went all 7 innings giving up 5 runs, 3 earned and only walked one. They had some hard hits against him, but he kept his head and did what he needed to get outs.

In terms of confidence, his off season pitching coach is the pitching coach for a AA minor league team. Before the season started, he said he hoped my son pitched varsity and got rocked at least once. He said one of the biggest problems he has with guys at his level is that they have always been dominant and have never had to deal with adversity. He said that once you get to the AA, AAA and MLB level, you will get rocked and mentally, you need to know how to deal with it. Some of those guys never recover from not doing well and it will literally keep them off the major league roster. So, I think you need to have confidence, but you also need to deal with adversity and know how to come back from a bad outing.

I think regardless of how hard you throw (to a point), if you hit your spots and change speeds, you can be effective.

We do have a freshman and a JV team here. Freshman is not very competitive. Pitching on the freshman team would not give my son any challenge. JV is better, but not near the level or intensity of varsity. At the varsity level, my son will have to be able to pitch, not just throw. I look forward to the challenge. All around, I think he will become a better pitcher because of it.

Appreciate the feedback.
Varsity coach was very clear at the first team meeting parents are not allowed to ask about playing time. Plus, I knew my son's probability for making varsity going into tryouts was 50/50 but the coach did speak with me the day after tryouts. Coach prefers to have son practicing with varsity and get spot playing time instead of full-time JV. Believes it will help him progress faster to the faster pitching and game speed of HS varsity. Playing on JV was the JV coach's idea not mine or my son. I think it will ease his frustration on varsity.

I really can't complain because the head coach sees him as both position player and pitcher. Son takes regular BP, works with the pitching coach in bullpens, and participates in team defense drills as a pitcher. If he played, he might contribute the same as some of the upperclassmen position players but right now he's not "better" than any of the starters. Of the 8 pitchers, 3 upperclassmen bear the main load with the other 5 taking care of lesser non-district games. As a pitcher, son's FB touches 82-83, good curve, change-up is inconsistent. Control could be also be more consistent which has been the focus during bullpens. Will have to earn his position playing time next year in the OF....starting catcher is only a sophmore. Plus he's only 14 and birthday is in August. It's fair to assume he is the youngest player on varsity.

So, as other have stated, this year is all about development, take advantage of the varsity playing time opportunities, and work to improve. Playing time will come as long as he keeps working.

As I have talked with others, a common question always comes up. If you have a Senior player and a So/Fr player with the same abilities, who should the coach play? You can assume the So/Fr player will eventually develop to be a better player than the Sr player, but for right now they both contribute the same.

Thanks.

BD 46, Son is 5'9" and 165ish. Definitely no man-child. Just got word he will be starting on the mound Friday for the JV game against one of the better JV teams in the area.

I also agree with BBman. Challenge the kids if they can mentally handle it, but until they get roughed up you'll never know how they respond. Some of the JV teams are good...others not good at all. Delicate balance during mental development on how much to challenge HS Fresh/Soph pitchers.

quote:

Just curious about freshman playing varsity

From hanging around these boards, I've come to the conclusion that most posters' kids are among the very best players in HS.

Go read the thread on HS games. It's obvious that no one playing each other here since all of the position players are going 4-5 while the pitchers all give up maybe one hit and have 5-6 K's...

The kids here are among the best so a casual observer might conclude that HS baseball is all 90+ pitching and .400 hitters.

Even though bballman downplays it, mid-80's with a good tail, a decent CU and a good slider thrown for strikes is a better that average HS pitcher...

quote:

From hanging around these boards, I've come to the conclusion that most posters' kids are among the very best players in HS.

I'm willing to bet most posters on this board have kids talented enough to be interested in the next level assuming they're not already there or further. That's why they found this site. Also, both the kid and the parent are passionate about getting to the next level.

Thats a good observation Hawk19...I sometimes wonder if this site should be renamed "goingbeyondHSbaseballweb." Seems like that is the proclaimed goal of most posters here.

Not a bad thing...just wonder how useful all of the advice served up here is to the average HS player? And I think playing only through HS, and no more, is pretty special in itself. Not many get to do even that.

As for the question, "sit varsity or play JV?" In most cases it really is the coach's decision. This is not a bad thing. Its part of life. I would focus on helping your son to get the very most out of it...and I think there's a lot to get out of either situation. Stay positive (sounds like you are)...I guess the "worst case" is your son will be very fresh for summer ball.

Have a great season!

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
My son is around 5'9" and weighs 155-160. He is not one of those man-child's. .... He throws low to mid 80's with a good tail on the fastball with a decent change and a good slider he can throw for strikes.

From the numerous readings and discussions on youth pitching that I have encountered over many years:

Freshman + Sliders = Red Flag

If you want him to take his lumps and reduce the risk of injury have him stop throwing sliders.

My sons pitch counts were always low throughout his pre-high school years because he only threw fastballs and a few changeups. Second or third time through the lineup he was no longer effective and was pulled from the game with low pitch counts. He didn't like it, but he learned to take his lumps, fully develop his control, and never
threw over 75 pitches before high school. Most of the pre-high school pitching stars that relied on the junk have had arm problems or never developed into top pitchers.

He has been throwing this pitch since he was about 12. Started really as a cutter and developed more into a slider. Basically holds it off center and throws it like a fastball. I have had numerous coaches (not just his team coach) and pitching coaches evaluate him and give him the go ahead before I allowed him to throw it.

He has never had any elbow pain. Never not able to pitch due to arm injury. My son has had pitch counts as well, although higher than 75. What we watch for is signs of fatigue. When he tires, he comes out regardless of game situation. If fact, we have lost a number of big games over the years because we took him out and put in another pitcher. We are also VERY careful about rest days between outings. He goes 80-90 pitches, he won't pitch again for at least 4 days.

ASMI's research has shown that a curveball actually puts less stress on the arm than a fastball. Main cause of arm injuries is from overuse, not necessarily the type of pitches thrown. My point is that we did not make this decision without prior research and without soliciting the advice from many that his mechanics were sound enough and he was throwing the pitch in such a way as to not hurt his arm.

Here we go. Hope this doesn't turn into a fastball vs. breaking ball thread.

His goal should be to improve as a player. To do this, once you are on the full sized diamond, you must play with and against the best competition you can and have the best coaching possible. The HS season is short and of no other consequence.

The reps he will get in varsity practice will far outnumber the number of plays he will see in any JV game. You improve at practice, not in games.

He needs to reset his priorities. Forget playing time. He will get that in the summer. View this as a baseball camp. His game will improve faster with varsity practices. He is paying his dues as a freshman. Be a team player. Take care of the dugout. Shag bats and other gear. Run a jacket out to the pitcher who is on 1B. Throw between innings with the near outfielder. Have a smile on your face and just be glad you have the opportunity to be there. Have your glove and cap at the ready just in case you are called upon.

What starter is he better than? None? You want to play? Earn it! Otherwise learn at practices and get better until your time comes. Become a better player than you were at the start of the season. Learn the nuances.

The idea of a player voluntarily wanting to go backwards boggles my mind. What are his short range goals? Mid range? Long range? At the HS level it is not about him. It is about the team. Why in God's green earth would a coach put in a player who is not as good as another? Makes no sense. That mind set, playing time concerns, etc. went out with small field ball. Or should have.

He needs to develop the mental part of the game which is sorely lacking. A part of that is mental toughness. Get tough or go flip burgers and ask if the patron wants ketchup with his fries.

It is great to make varsity as a frosh in HS but for me unless you are in the lineup every day you are impeding your baseball development.

I like the idea of pitching "up" if possible at times but still play JV as a regular

One key factor here is the fact that the varsity coach has laid out a "game plan" which is a positive for your son.

quote:

Not a bad thing...just wonder how useful all of the advice served up here is to the average HS player? And I think playing only through HS and no more is pretty special in itself. Not many get to do even that.

Well, my son falls right in that average HS player category. There were unrealistic expectations for his future in baseball because he played varsity baseball for fun. It was never a job for him. He opted not to showcase for college but did play American Legion and a fall woodbat high school varsity league to keep sharp with and against the area talent. He had the tools, not the desire to play college baseball. He was a solid player and a good hitter that batted 3rd on the varsity once he played everyday. For a team that had somewhat of a down year in his senior year, finished strong and did well in the conference tournament, he got into the paper quite a bit for getting key hits. Even in losses, he found his way in the paper for some highlight. He got to become an impact player on the varsity level after busting his tail and paying his dues on the freshman and jv teams.

And I agree, it is special to get to play, let alone the starting 9. Having come from a big school in a tough conference makes it that more difficult to make it at that level. There's a lot of good ballplayers who don't make it to varsity.

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
Hope this doesn't turn into a fastball vs. breaking ball thread.

I agree with that. It's good to see you have been careful and done your research. This has always been a hot topic and there is no proven clear cut answer.

Well, I can tell you my son's priorities are correctly set and he understands his situation with no explanation from me or the coach. He has the typical freshman responsibilities such as cleaning extra areas on the field, carrying bucket of balls to all away games, and volunteers as needed without a complaint.....Ultimate Team player.

As far as playing time, I am the first one to say it has to be earned, but that speech can get old especially if a kid is giving 100% in practice. I am simply just trying to figure out ways to ease my son's frustration through our conversations and keep his "desire to compete" fresh so he continues to work hard in practice. Some kids have such a strong desire to compete that it burns them to not play.

To TRHit's point, it was hard to figure out at first but the coach does show "a game plan" to develop him. My concern is the hitting against live-game pitching. Hard to consistently simulate if you don't play regularly and the team is resting pitchers for actual games. Again, just a concern but IMO his body hasn't developed enough to achieve consistent hitting/pitching results against 17/18 yr olds. So I have no complaints about varsity playing time. Just trying field comments from the members on different approaches to help him stay motivated.

Son's short range goal was to make Varsity team because he thought he could contribute. Still have over 2/3 of season left so we'll see how much he contributes. He definitely has goals to get a degree and play in college. Lots of hard work to get there.

quote:

Originally posted by FLDad:
Son's short range goal was to make Varsity team because he thought he could contribute. Still have over 2/3 of season left so we'll see how much he contributes. He definitely has goals to get a degree and play in college. Lots of hard work to get there.

He is contributing because he is there working every day, cheering on his team mates and is available to play should he need to be called upon. Many things happen in a baseball season and games and coaches need depth to deal with the unexpected. He is contributing by being there. He is learning a lot about what guys will be going though while he is playing the future and someone else is backing him on the bench. As they say you never really understand sometimes until you have walked in someone else’s shoes and he and he is going to understand those guys better and be a better teammate because of it.

One of our relievers yesterday threw two (2) pitches in the 7th with the tying run at first against one of the better hitters in all of Southern California and grounded him out and saved the game. You can bet his teammates will be slapping him on the back at practice today because of his contributions - two silly pitches. There were three outfielders that played, or hit, or pinch ran during the game that all contributed. My son was whooping it up at a convenience store after the game with one kid who was on the bench the whole game. He is learning things you cannot teach and is contributing in ways he won't understand until he is playing every day and has to walk into the dugout and see others in his current place on the team.

bballman

take this for what it's worth, with no malice intended. sliders are a big boy's pitch. it raises cain with the ucl. really no need to throw it until fully grown. really no need to argue it's merit's either.
if you ask most players that had tj,they never had pain either..........until they did. quite a few threw a hard slider.

you can decode asmi however you want, type's of pitches thrown along with overuse = disaster.


been there,seen it, done it, got the t shirt.

There is a real good chance that your player will find himself in this very position during his first college season. Having been through it here in high school may be the thing that gets him through it in college. It could be the difference between persevering or quitting during his college freshman year.

I am with 20Dad, slider is the pitch for big boys.

I don't get it, why do HS pitchers need to throw sliders?

My advise would be to leave that decision up to the pitcher, coach and/or parents of the player.

I knew this would happen. Tell you what, I'll start a new thread over in pitching. I have a couple of questions about this subject maybe some of you can answer.

In the meantime, everyone can get back to the subject at hand.