HS versus Summer programs

It probably happens more than you know, my son's high school coached lite into my son about the very same thing, my son ignored him and played where he wanted by his senior year the coach was constantly on him, but never made him sit out because he couldn't afford to. We also know he lied to college coaches (by the way he was fired) but you have to make some tough decisions and a kid should be able to choice whEre they want to play for summer ball.

sampb

Here in the Northeast that cannot happen because the rules in each state just about prohibit it in one manner or another--the coach can only work with so many players from his team at one time--thus coaching a full summer team roster of his HS players is nearly impossible

I didn't like the rule originally but when I hear things like this I am glad we have in place what we have.

TRhit

TR not coming to the coaches defense?

It goes on all the stinkin time, this topic burns me up. These arogant high school coaches missed the boat as times have changed over the past 10 years and they still think they control the players outside of school (ie. summer).

Here is what I have found about most high school coaches:

1. High School Coaches actually believe that the time these players are with them is when they are noticed by colleges. They take all the credit when a player signs to play college baseball.

2. High School Coaches forget that teaching their younger players is just as important as teaching their older experienced players.

3. High School Coaches dont realize that having the opportunity to have their players in the summer is a privilege to most as it is not allowed to others.

4. High School Coaches dont realize that allowing their older and better players go and play better competition allows them to teach their younger players the game and get them some experience.

5. High School Coaches dont realize that by keeping the older and better players they are reducing the reps of the younger players and BORING THE **** out of their older players.

With all of that said lets remember that not ALL High School Coaches are like what I have described above. There are the coaches that see the big picture and understand that challenging his older and better players while teaching the younger ones makes his team better overall.

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When parents go to complain they mostly complain about trivial stuff that make administrators weary of any complaints. And when its time to step up and challenge the institution becasue they are trying to control players in their off time, well these same parents chicken out and dont say anything.

I have said my peace....I am not sure I have said enough but I hope that one day...no dangit..I hope that the parent at the top of this post sues the **** out of his coach for depriving their son of his senior year game time, only because he wanted to get better.

This makes me sick!

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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT

Well said TFUSA! Its not me or my son in this situation or I might well take the action you speak of.

________________
"The only people I ever felt intimdated by in my whole life were Bob Gibson and my daddy," Dusty Baker.

I am confused. Here the paid HS Coach can only coach during the HS baseball season, he is technically not supposed to be anywhere near the kids in the off season. Is it different in other places? Was this a volunter coach? Confused here.

Some places in the country there is no contact with players during summer months...some places there is limited contact...and others there is options to have full summer programs.

The topic was geared more towards...well here it is and its a lot of **** too!

quote:

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Our local chat board lit up this afternoon with a discussion about a young man who was suspended for the first 3 games of his HS senior season for not playing on his coach's summer HS team. The kid already has a D1 scholarship - but the HS coach was apparently upset that he showcased and played for a national travel team instead of his HS team last summer.

I say this is CR*P! How dare a HS coach punish a kid for not spending the summer however he wanted too. Its the kid's summer and no HS coach has any right to exert such pressure in my opinion.

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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT

If the kid is "playing up" why wouldn't the coach promote it. It only makes his HS team stronger and he gets to see more players. If there is a personality conflict, maybe the break is good for all concerned. So many times you see teams get better as a whole when the main cog(s) are not there holding things together, it becomes a challenge to others. Now if he reneged on a commitment, thats a different story.

Justball,

In Texas, athletics are governed by UIL (Univ. Intershcolastic League). http://www.uil.utexas.edu/ath/manuals/base/manual.html
The rules govern the specifics of interaction the HS Coaches are allowed.

Doesn't Calif. have the same kind of sanctioning body? I'd sure check into it.. This sounds unreasonable!

I am guessing here as I can only speak with limit knowledge but some high school coaches are like I forget the exact terminolgy but like not real scouts but like asst scouts who help scouts and get paid if they find somebody and some are more than that so they try to control the players because it can pay off for them and make them look good, some work at it in strange ways. One way is to have them play on their team because they want to be the one that coaches you, they are the ones talking to the colleges and can actually manipulate certain situations, ie tell one college he has already accepted and offer when he didn't or tell a college he is definately not interested in that school and even call a school after a coach has invited you for a try out (Div 2) and tell the coach something negative and even cancel it so you show up and look like a fooland the college coach wonders what the heck is going on. I personally think this is an awful conflict but it happens.

And I repeat all coaches are not like this but there are coaches like this (at least one I know of) and its a shame that have so much power over a kids life and don't trust them to make decisions or they have their own agenda in mind not the players.

And I will to repeat not all coaches are like this, just some. And the bottom line is life goes on you make your decisions and keep trying to look forward and not back

PS, just baseball the player just has to persist and continue to play, it his life, the above story is true....and despit all this my son is getting his first Friday start tonight...continue to push and strive and he will suceed!

sampb

It happens,I witnessed it first hand last summer.The young man wanted to play on my sons travel team the HS coach threw a fit.Threatened the kids playing time for the upcoming year and generally a jerk about the deal.

It led to an exchange one day at travel teams practice between the coach and another parent not related to the kid in question. It was a very heated exchange,thankfully there was a batting cage net seperating them or it may have gotten completly out of hand.
Some coaches seem to want complete control regardless of what is good for the kids. It's unfortunate.

Dont paint every coach with the same brush. I as well as several coachs I know encourage players to play on the best team they can in the summer. I want my guys to be in the best baseball situation they can be. All High School coachs are not out to hurt kids baseball careers. In fact the vast majority are trying to help them to the best of their ability.

This past summer my son's HS asst. coach was coaching a summer team. The players were told by the Head Coach that they were required to play on this team. A couple of weeks later my son was asked to join a very good travel team. He went to his HS coach explained the situation. The travel team wanted him as a pitcher only. They agreed that he could do both. He would play for the local team when ever he could as a 1B/CF, that way he would be ready to pitch for the travel team. It made for a very busy summer but he loved it and was able to have the best of both worlds. We are very grateful that he has an understanding and supportive HS coach. The travel team turned out to be one of the best things for him. It was while playing for them that he was seen by a scout for the college he has signed with. His HS coach could not be happier for him.

While I would like to jump in this discussion with both feet, I'll refrain from a lengthy oration..

Coach May,
As I have told you before, you are in the minority and there are more of you needed among the HS baseball coaches in the nation.

Suffice to say is the fact that there are toooooooooo many coaches trying to feed their own egos, rather than helping young men become better players, better people and further their playing careers.

Every day I come on this board, I learn to appreciate my sons high school coach more and more.

Our HS plays summer ball. We have a Spring "let's get the rust out" Team where all the boys are to participate. It's dad coached and very informal. I informed our coach that my son would be playing with a more competitive team in the spring and not with the HS team.

His response was "Good, the other guys can get more innings". His players would walk through a minefield for him, they love him.

He truly wants whats best for his players.

SO, Coach Farina of New Berlin West High School, This MGD LITE is for you!

(Sorry no Budwiser in these parts)

Play every game as if it were your last

Baseonballs50,

In Florida high school coaches ARE allowed to coach their own teams during the summer, but not in the fall.

As for TeamFloridaUSA's comments: I have to agree on ALL counts. And like Mike - I want to state not ALL high school coaches are like that.

We have a player who has committed to us for this upcoming summer. He has asked us not to announce our roster (which we don't do until May) because the parents feel the coach will sit the player if he finds out he is not playing Legion this summer.

Here is another interesting situation. There is a player, whose dad has called me several times (yesterday being the last). His son plays for a high school, where another summer team's assistant coach is coaching. The parent is afraid to play for our program because of possible repercusions from that coach. (That coach is not with TeamFloridaUSA. I'm stating that because I talked about TeamFLoridaUSA earlier in this post and don't want anyone to equate the two sections wrongly.)

What I don't understand is why are parents so afraid of high school coaches? The worst case scenario is that a kid plays for his high school during the summer and does not get a scholarship. Parents are led to believe that is the coach benches their kid his senior year that is the worst case scenario - it isn't. Not having a college to play at is.

And by the way, if the coach is THAT concerned about winning he will not carry through with his threat to bench a kid either. They just use it to scare the parents.

Bob Pincus
Head Coach
Central Florida Renegades
www.eteamz.com/centralfloridarenegades
RobPincus@aol.com

Sorry to disagree with TR but it happens all the time in the NE the coach annoints a summer team with his guy at the helm and you play for this team or else. My middle son is as well traveled as anyone but he still managed enough games for the local team to believe he is OK for this his senior year.It is ludicrous to believe he would have gotten any of the scholarship offers he did if he did not attend showcases and play for teams out of Florida and other areas. There just are not a significant number of scouts at HS games in NJ.

I wonder if I am going to ask,if the HS team is the place to be scouted, why they have as their only field improment erected a screen over the backstop that is impervious to radar.Maybe I am to believe the second biggest lie in baseball, velocity isn't the key. If I do believe that maybe I can even buy the biggest lie, playing HS ball will get you recruited.That being said I would encourage every baseball player to play for their HS team but also get out there and be seen at PG T1 area code or TR's great organization College Select. Then get on the best summer team you can.

quote:

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What I don't understand is why are parents so afraid of high school coaches?

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I agree. Parents should do the right thing by their kids and let the chips fall where they may. Not all parents are afraid of the high school coach. If your scholly is locked up and the coach benches you for something you did 8 months ago, that's the coaches problem, not yours, unless you are being scouted by MLB.

If a parent has to be the bad guy and run interference, it goes with the job.

They talk about the TEAM first, then punish a kid for getting ahead on his own, and planning his future when they are really trying to pad their own win/loss record and get their name in the paper. I'm tired of it.

Don't let a coach alone make decisions for you kid that will impact his future, when that coach may not even be coaching his team next year, let alone be even remotely responsible for the consequenses of those life decisions. I have to look my kid in the eye and know I've done all I can.

Coach turnover is very high with 4 new coaches in our district this year alone out of 8 teams. Its the coaches team(for how long?), but its your kid. If the coach leaves, the team will still play. If the kid leaves, which they all do eventually anyway, the team will still play, but will they win?

I know some coaches will say its "My way or the highway!" There are cases when its better to take the highway.

With that said, pick the summer team best for you.

Florida baseball guy, first congrats on you new job with team one. I just wanted to comment on being afraid of the high school coaches, its not afraid and you do what you want as my son did and you are right he did not sit out, but quite frankly the coach made his senior year terrible to say it nicely and I won't go into it to much but he actually sabotaged some things that we did not find out about until much later to get back at him I suppose and to show him who was boss. I could give a few examples but its over and my son has moved on but I still hold a grudge.

PS am sending you a PM

sampb

If I didn't know better, I'd think that BigWI's son and my son play for the same HS coach. A couple of weeks ago, my son's (an 05) coach approached me during a team workout and told me that it was okay with him if my son played for a travel team this summer. His coach recognizes that he will not be challanged this summer by our area's summer teams. From reading this board, his coach is putting forth more effort, than some HS coaches, to get his players recruited.
During our conversation, it came up that by having him play with a travel team, it gives the other players on the HS summer team more playing time. It's a win-win situation for everyone.

It's so simple---Throw the ball, catch the ball.

I did not know how lucky that I was until recently. My sons HS coach does not want to coach the players during the Summer. He has small children of his own (8-11) and he helps with their team. He does want the players to play on good teams but just does not feel that it is necessary for them to play together during the Summer. This is a team that won a state championship 2 years ago and has sent players to Miami, Alabama, Vanderbilt, etc... over the last 10 years. A friend of mine has a player playing for a high school in Nashville and the coach told the players and parents that he expected them to play for the hs team during the Summer. It is so bad that the parents have talked of tape recording the meetings next season and if the coach gives the same speech they will turn the tapes over to the county athletic director and state hs association. Is it this crazy in most areas?

Wearing a wire? Wiretapping coaches? Hmmm! Sounds like a job for

Reading all this makes me wonder if my son needs to play High School Ball.

I'm still reading, it ain't time yet!!!

AstroDad, sure he needs to play high school ball. After all, how can you tell you have a good coach until your son has played for some idiot high school coach?

"There comes a time when you have to stop dreaming of the man you want to be and start being the man you have become." Bruce Springsteen

Dad04,

I'm thinking you have way too much time on your hands!

Bob Pincus
Head Coach
Central Florida Renegades
www.eteamz.com/centralfloridarenegades
RobPincus@aol.com

Dad04:
I've heard that there are special wiretapping devices that can be hidden in the players' cups. These can be purchased at any of your local Spy Stores. It's perfectly safe until the player starts sweating.LOL

This is a touchy topic. I've seen it locally with different HS programs. It's very sad that some HS coaches behave in this manner. That and the silly politics are ridiculous. We've experienced it from Little League on up.
But I know one thing for sure, if my son hadn't had the opportunity to play on an excellent travel team this past summer and hadn't attended the showcases he did, he would not have been contacted by the schools that have contacted him. It's great that he was able to have the experiences that he had this past summer and it made him a better ballplayer and better person. It also opened doors for his future that would never had been options had he played local ball in the summer. For that we are grateful.
Practice has just started here and things seem positive with the HS coaches. Last HS year was very tough, but we hope and expect all to be okay this spring.
It's ridiculous to me that adults would behave in such a manner as to be damaging to a young man's dreams and to sit a kid for working to be better than he was before and play at a higher level. It is foolish.
The reason people don't raise an enormous stink about these things is that as parents we have one vulnerable spot in our hearts. This vulnerability is our children. I would never knowingly put my son in harm's way. Reality and life has taught me that there are jerks and ***holes in the world. And a lot of them hold positions of power. I have no control over other people, but I do have control over my attitude and actions. My son is learning to stay the course and he is learning to not allow the sideshow of reality to deviate him from his course. He's also learned that he doesn't have to put up with abuse and to address situations as they occur. After all, no single coach can stop a determined ballplayer from being successful.

For all the parents of players let me just say this. If you can put your son in a better baseball environment in the summer then you are doing him an injustice if you dont do it. You should not let anyone including his High School coach hinder his development and opportunities. If his coach does not care enough about him to see that the (off season) is his to improve his game not the High School teams why should you worry about it. If he takes unfair measures against him the next season because he has exercised this right then your in the wrong program to start with. If he is a stud it will show. The High School coach will not be able to stop him from achieveing his goals. I have always believed that what you do in the off season determines what you are capable of doing during the season. The better situation my guys are in the off season ultimately the better my guys will be next year. I have a very talented 08. He had an opportunity to play with a high level AAU team last summer. He elected to use the summer working out with a pitcher that was drafted and some other guys as well on a daily basis. The improvement he made physically was dramatic. You should do what is best for you in the off season. You should do what is best for the team during the season. It is that simple.