HSBBW advertizing

rz1,

Bob Williams and the Goodwill Series can't be acknowledged enough. He deserves legendary status for his accomplishments in helping young players.

rz, I know you meant well, but just to clear something up.

The truth is, we would give the same amount with or without the banner ad. I'm sure some don't believe that, but that's OK. While this IS a good place to promote, promotion has very little to do with my interest here.

The one thing that makes this site unique is, for the most part, it really is "all about the kids"! Bob Williams and Tom Rizzi have been all about the kids for a long time. As are many others who give so much time and hopefully some money to this site.

I do know where your coming from, though. It is a bit dissapointing when someone posts on many forums advertising something and never adds anything to the overall discussions. It does seem a little like taking advantage of things. Then again, it could be something very worthwhile to the kids. Seems like they could at least send Julie a few bucks for providing the outlet.

Nice acknowledgement rz1!

How about the rest of us? Did we send our check in yet to Julie? Both big and small are much appreciated I am sure.

If you forgot (like I did earlier this summer), now's the time!

I know that Jerry / PGStaff does NOT want me to "toot his horn", but I still want to share this with our members.

When I first took over this site 16 months ago, PG (Jerry) was the first organization to contact me and say "I know you have expenses for the site, I want to send you a check". At that time I asked him not to send anything, because founder Bob H. had told me that he had made an annual donation a few months earlier.

When the next anniversary of the site arrived, Jerry sent me a generous contribution but said "I don't want a banner, I just want to help support the site." I asked him to please allow me to place banners for Perfect Game (and BaseballWebTV and PGCrossChecker) on our site for two reasons:

For one, I am proud to have Perfect Game associated with this site! This might sound selfish, but it's true: PG is a very respected organization, and lends additional credibility to our site. Second reason for placing the banners: I want our members to know, if any of them wonder, that PG does support this site financially.

I don't want to slight any of our sponsors with the story above - I appreciate every one of them, and they make it possible for me to keep this site going without charging new members a fee or constantly running a "PBS Telethon" for donations (though some of our members have kind of done that for me lately - a little embarrassing for me, but I admit with both my boys in college this fall, it is a great relief to have the site hosting costs paid for the next two months because of generous members!!!).

Thanks again to ALL of our sponsors - when you see their banners on top of any of the forums on this site, remember that they play a huge role in allowing this site to continue as a service to parents and players.

Julie

It is the least we can do to keep it all going forward

having these men on this site with their years of knowledge is priceless.i for one find myself enlightened every week.if every one sent in a little bit it would only help the cause. your doing a great job julie, thanks a million.

Odd that rz1 would bring this topic up today. I just noticed about 4 or 5 posts on different forums advertising a pitching clinic by Tom House.

Well, I happen to think Tom House is great, and I hope some kids get to attend that clinic.

This stuff wouldn't bother me much (and actually it doesn't) except there is a pitching, hitting, coaching and other forums that someone running a clinic and a training center could obviously add something to. Why just show up, dump a few free ads on the site, don't bother to post anything else worthwhile and then leave.

Hopefully, next time "PlayBallUSA" shows up, he will add more than just a bunch of ads! He probably could be a good addition to the site. I'm positive Tom House would be.

Julie,
I have one in school, I can't imagine what it is like having TWO at a time.

I know I am very appreciative of you taking on this repsonsibility, and I am appreciative of you visiting this site often to keep things uder control. I also appreciate all those happy faces, etc. you have added for fun a while back and I know that the extra bandwith most likely has added some $$$.

We are sorry if we have embarrassed you, but this discussion came up in the chat last week (when Julie was present) and a few of us thought it was time to speak up. That was not the intention. I have never been at a loss for words, but JBB beat me to it and I thank him.

This is a free site, for free advice. Yes there are some who may benefit from it, that's there business as long as they take care of business in return. As mentioned by PG above.

Someone else mentioned something about hats, t-shirts available and was wondering how that could help the HSBBW.

PGStaff noticed the same thing that I was wondering about earlier today, and actually I thought about asking some member opinions.

We all do notice from time to time, new members who drop by just to let us know about their event, but don't seem to stay long enough to understand the way this site works. They miss out on "meeting" some of the great folks here, and we miss out on learning from their baseball experience. In some of those cases, members complain and a moderator ends up deleting the posts if they are too blatant. I tend to be lenient if I think it is an event that might benefit our members.

As PG indicated, it's not about "did they pay for ad space?", but more about "did they take some time to find out how our community works and contribute useful information?"

Anyway, I'm not jumping in here to pick on PlayBallUSA - we have a lot of other members who occasionally tell us about their events but have not chosen to become sponsors, and that truly is okay - but as PG said, "Hopefully, next time "PlayBallUSA" shows up, he will add more than just a bunch of ads!"

As long as I'm on the topic, one more thought:

As 20dad said, "Having these men on this site with their years of knowledge is priceless. I for one find myself enlightened every week."

Thank you to ... I started to list names but erased them, because there are way too many who I would want to thank, both men and women, and didn't want to miss a whole bunch of them - Thank You to all who make this site what it is by sharing your knowledge and experience. I personally know very little about baseball, though I am a big fan of the game and of a bunch of players. I am mostly just the housekeeper, the "Mom", who takes care of "household" tasks (admin), helps settle disputes, keeps the bills paid, and hopes to "redecorate" eventually (I'm working on a site re-design). I don't make this a baseball site - you all do. Thank you.

Julie

PG is a legit business, College Select is a legit business, Goodwill Series is a legit business, and the HSBBW is an avenue for these businesses to display their services. Baseball America would not allow PG to throw an add free of charge in their publication why should the HSBBW. I think Tom House would understand the situation and know that a banner on this site would be the best ad price he could find, but someone has to approach him. Because he can do it now for free, why not. Being a legit business, PlayBallUSA would understand that this is a targeted potential audience and as a result it would be in his best interest to jump on board. I think that PG and TR would both agree that even though they would have still been sucessful, this site has been a plus to their business and the future is probably even brighter. Hopefully someone from Tom Houses group will get wind of this and contact Julie soon. In the mean time I feel that in order to keep this site solvent a hard stance on unsolicited advertizing should be taken.

rz1

I can't speak for PG but for me this site is "home" , College Select or no College Select

Most of you probably do not know this but Bob (the Grand Poo Bah" ) and I became friends before his creation of this site so being here is more than just paying for a banner ad---I consider this "family" to use a Italian phrase

Truth be known I probably speak to more parents/kids who do not attend our events, they are from out of our region and we are not a national program. For me this is what this site is all about-- those of us who have been thru the recruitng process helping those who are just getting into it--it is not about attending our events

The cherry on top of the cake is the number of friendships made be they be "virtual" or "real"--the fact that one can pick up the phone and call a member and just talk baseball--to me this is what this site is all about--we have differences of opinion as do all friends but heck--we are still one big "family" and to me "family" is of the utmost importance

Thank you TR and the others that make this site fantastic!!!

TR,

Your presence here validates the fact "this is home". I think my underlying intent is to show that this site is a valid avenue for companies to promote baseball services in a non-spam and non-popup environment. However the ugly truth is that unless there is financial backing for a "clean" and "technically advanced" site, places like the HSBBW will not be able to survive.

Families expand, but the cost of maitaining that "family unit" increases as the cost of living increases. There is something very special that happens here and I think that you nailed it with the words friend and family. You mention that you talk to more people that do not use your sevices than do, but that is because that is who you are. But mark my word that those people also know people and they will all continue to come back to you. You and PG are an exception to the rule as most people in your shoes, and there have been many here then gone, that will give you the time of day only if there is an attached reciept.

Advertising on the HSBBW. I have mixed feeling about it but I basically don’t like it. It changes the face of the HSBBW from what started out as a pure hobby for Bob Howdeshell and has grown into what has taken on the appearance a business that requires outside financing. It was nice (for parents) when there was no advertisement at all because it was easier to understand everyone’s perspective. Greedy aren’t I? We know that ALL posters on the HSBBW have an agenda. I have an agenda and every one else has an agenda. However some of those agendas are obviously for financial gains but are camouflaged by the poster and presented as simply being good information or a good deal. In my opinion this is down right deception. It is especially irritating to me because I know how vulnerable the parents of young players can be. This is a highly emotional time for them and they are looking for answers and suddenly the answer comes to them in the form of a sales pitch or like rz1 say, it has a reciept attached.
Yes, I know it takes money to operate the HSBBW but I think an real effort should be made to keep the site commercial free and have the Websters donate money to support the site. This would remove the commercial aspect of the site. Julie please don’t take my comments as criticism of your management of the site because they are not intended to criticize you at all but to show both side of the discussion and possibly offer another option and to share my feelings. It probably boils down to the fact that banner ads and other forms of self promotions rub me the wrong way. I like what PG Staff said in another post:

quote:

I could brag about myself until the cows come home and very few people will be impressed. But all it takes is for one person who has no motive to brag about me and the whole world pays attention.

Those are the types of “advertisements” that I pay attention to. Like most parents I spent a fair amount of money during my son's youth baseball days --- but I tried to spend it on those things that had a good reputation and I did not want to be influenced by some slick advertisement.
Of course this is just my opinion (but at least it’s free).
Fungo

And, minimal contributions from only a few of our membership now approaching 9,000 would help reduce the finacial pressure Julie faces to fund this site.

If only a small percentage would contribute to offset those costs, it would reduce the need to allow or require advertisers

Small contributions from a few would continue to allow new members to join and become part of the family without having a cost consider while their fingers struggle with typing out that intimidating first question.

If the first 300 of us old timers would send $10,(I know many already have) it would be taken care of for awhile.....

Good post Fungo!

I agree this is not a site for advertizing but I think the banner approach on the top of the forum pages is acceptable. With 30 generic forums, 8 regional forums, and 12 State forums, if every forum was allowed one banner that did not advertize but pointed readers to a page regardless if it was baseball related or not I would find that acceptable, revenue producing, and not overbearing. The key is to set strict standards that respects the members but at the same time could be informational. Those guidelines would then put out there to the readers and then ask if they know a Joe Blow who might be interested in throwing a banner on a site. We have some very diverse forums that attract different groups of websters. Personally I find the State forums to be an interesting option. Maybe it a regional insurance company that offers good student rates, maybe its a State chain of resturaunts, maybe it's for a college, who knows. I think it's harmless and the point is if you don't want to go there you ignore it. The same line of thinking goes to the other forums, The ladies forum might go for something, For players only something else, hitting forum may be a bat company, and the list goes on.

The membership has the old timers but it is also a revolving door of poster and visitors where a constant stream of revenue cannot be guaranteed.

This is just an rz1 thought. Maybe a small group should be organized and we can do a chat some night to throw around some ideas. I agree with many users thoughts that "you don't fix what ain't broke", but at the same time "looking ahead" has it's + side.

I'm a "glass half full" kind of guy and see a lot of potential and even a future possibility of excess after the year where a player(s) scholarship is available to a worthy son of a webster decided upon on/off the field accolades. That is what I feel this site is all about.... But, first things first.

Fungo

Bob had the option for advertising if so desired

For what it costs to run a site, trust me I know, there is nothing wrong with it, if done tastefully--- the site could well be self subsisting

Fungo,

I tend to agree with most of what you have written. I'm not a businessman at all (others in our business are) but none of them participate here. I do know that this site has helped our business and I also know our business has helped this site. I’m most interested in helping the site. That is my biggest agenda. The second biggest agenda is simply based on my enjoyment of this site. Third is the information I gain from this site, that coincidently does help our business at times. Perhaps the last reason has to do with promoting our business. Why can’t I be here for the same reason others are here? Maybe we do somehow all have agendas, but the agenda can be based on anything from hatred, to promotion, to enjoyment, to desire to help others.

I might be wrong, but I believe our business would do the same with or without HSBBW. That’s why we never advertise our events or mention we have openings for players or teams. Or even contact anyone by PM about our stuff or ask them to contact us. Yes, indirectly we do talk about the biggest events, but those we definitely don’t have to market to anyone, it’s just the talent is so much fun to talk about. Truth is, it’s kind of detrimental when we get tons of people wanting to get into a strict invitational event. It hurts, when we can’t grade or rank a HSBBW player higher and help him more. It’s terrible that we have actually lost some “friends” over that.

Fungo, I agree with you about the banner ads and commercialization. I did not ask for a banner and would have and did donate the same amount with or without the ad. Julie says it is a good thing for several reasons which I understand. If somehow it’s good for the HSBBW then I’m all for it. She even designed the ad, free of charge, that is why it looks so good. And I guess if others are going to do it, we should too, rather than look like cheap skates who don’t really care. Believe it or not, I’d much rather donate rather than purchase in this case. Really don’t care if anyone knows about it!

However, there’s also a disadvantage in having the advertising. People (rightfully so) think it’s the only reason the advertiser gives financial support to this site. I liked Bob’s old way, where he listed donations by state. People could guess who was donating and how much. If a state like IOWA showed up at 10 bucks donated, we would have looked pretty cheap. But if IOWA showed a sizable amount, people wouldn’t really know where it all came from.

It kind of bothers me (in a way) when people who wouldn’t donate a dime are now considered HSBBW supporters because they bought an ad. But that’s business and probably very good business on their part. I sure don’t hold that against anyone. They are here strictly for business reasons. I guess that is OK.

Bottom line, that I think we all forget at times. The site is becoming (like most everything) more expensive to run. It’s not only the site costs, but the actual time, effort and expertise that goes into keeping the site so valuable to so many. Surely people who pay attention can see that Julie is often up late at night working on the site. She never asks for anything. The best help she can receive from us is a little financial support. That is what will help her and this site continue for a long time, hopefully. Heck, I’d like to see her quit her real job and be able to afford to run the site for a living, but I doubt that will ever happen.

Finally, and most important, this site is not about Perfect Game, Goodwill Series, or any other company, it’s about the kids who play and their families. There is no other site quite like it, as we all know. Some of the very best people I know… players, scouts, coaches, moms and dads are found right here.

They could stop the ads tomorrow and our support will be the same. People can believe that or not… I don’t care. I’ve spent a lot more money on less enjoyable and less worthwhile habits. I thank Bob very much for all he did and I thank Julie for all she is doing. I’m not here for business, just like most of the other people who spend a lot of time here. I like to think I’m here for the same reasons that Fungo, BBScout, and many others participate. That’s not to say, our business doesn’t benefit from this site. However, I think the biggest benefit to our business is what the posters say rather than what is advertised at the top of a page.

I know you guys do not do it for the business but you do it because you care, and I think everyone knows that.

The perfect world would be "ad free", but the realistic world says you have to "pay to play". You are correct saying the site support would not dwindle with no ads, but site support does not pay the bills, and forums while educational do not offer "training skills" or products. That is done by revenue producing organizations.

I for one have little to gain but friendships from this site because the rz1 family tree has been trimmed and there will be no more Zbins running the bases, or pacing behind a mound. But, I do want to share my good and bad baseball experiences with other "upcomming" parents. At the same time I don't feel they should be charged or solicited to donate in order to listen to me or anyone else. That revenue can be had in a business sense. The overall environment is much more friendly if the all mighty dollar is not part of the opinions. However, donations are always welcome.

Sometimes our generation gets caught up in doing the right thing for the right reason, when we should be doing the "other thing" in order to achieve that "right reason". The potential economic issues here concern me. Everything is great today, but I'm concerned about how the kids/parents of tomorrow will experience the same free information they get today on this site.

rz1,

Sure can't argue with any of that!

Ever thought about adopting?

It's the people like yourself who make this site very special. I really can't see any agenda attached to you, Fungo, BBScout, JustBaseball and hundreds of others who spend time here. I just want to be in THAT group rather than the promoter group.

Silly question to ASK

but Why are we all here? is it not to help each other?

I went thru the process before the process was in place and am I willing to help others AND ENJOY THE COMARADERIE---whether I have a banner or not I am still here to give help from what I have experienced between my sons and my players over the years---it is not from a book or any manual

Isnt this what this site is all about?

Rz

give me a call
800-782-3672

quote:

Ever thought about adopting?

My luck I'd end up girl tripletts, and lose the rest of my hair

quote:

Bottom line, that I think we all forget at times. The site is becoming (like most everything) more expensive to run. It’s not only the site costs, but the actual time, effort and expertise that goes into keeping the site so valuable to so many. Surely people who pay attention can see that Julie is often up late at night working on the site. She never asks for anything. The best help she can receive from us is a little financial support.

I cannot claim to know Julie personally. But recently I have been in the chat room when she is...we've exchanged a couple PMs on ideas about all of this. And I've read her posts. I am reading between the lines when I say that I think the site could use a little more financial support in order to not become a financial weight on her shoulders.

I know I have taken for granted the fact that the site is here, its free, its useful and its fun. I think all of the comments I read are good, well-reasoned thoughts. But the costs are rising. This is a good discussion, but we should find a way to help support it...one way or another.

We could just all send her $10....

Not a real elegant solution, but it might work.

I remember when I first came there were some websters with "donor" next to their names. I thought that it was because they donated "advice".
This was another discussion in the chat room, should those who donate be given status. No! That's their business and should not be forced to donate to have "donor" next to their avatar.
I know when Julie first took over, she posted not to send anything. I suppose Julie is one of those people who just likes helping people, that's why she didn't want the HSBBW to stop and took on the responsibility for it to continue.
In the few years she has taken over, I think she asked once? And she takes ownership, she is here as much as possible, visible and I think that is very good. She spends many hours here working, for FREE!

Nothing more irritating than opening up the site and seeing 9-10 of the same posts on the same day, you know what that's about. FREE advertising. And that's ok, but everyone of those repeat posts have taken up space that needs to be paid for.
I think all of you have brought up good posts, and I do somewhat agree with Fungo about keeping the site "advertiser" free, but I don't think in this day and age, it's possible. rz also brings up some great points too. I see nothing wrong with asking legit businesses to advertise. I would think it makes them look even more legit, because I would know that Julie checked them out first before posting a banner.

JMO.

I said I didn’t like advertisement on the HSBBW. But after thinking about what I said let me clarify some things. I think it’s unfair of me to come in and publicly suggest how the HSBBW should be run. I have no idea how much it cost to run the HSBBW. But I know it does cost money! I also don’t know how much work it takes to make this all happen. But it has to take a lot of work! All I know is everything works on the HSBBW for all the kids and their parents and it works very well. Let’s face it folks, Julie has to find herself in some pretty awkward financial situations when it comes to running this site. Should she ask for donations? That’s not her style. Do you want her to beg for donations? Let’s not insult her. Should she charge a membership fee? Nope! I know Bob (founder of this site) said he never wanted a membership fee and I know Julie respects Bob. Should she advertise? You mean make this a commercial site? Hey, she has to have the money to make this site function and money doesn’t grow on trees. She has to do something. Ask yourself some questions. Should she be the one that foots the bill so you can come in here and tell how your son just made the All-Star team or got accepted to a college baseball program? Should she pay the web hosting fees so a young man can ask how long it will take to recover from TJ surgery? Should she be the one that writes the check so a promoter can tell everyone that Tom House is having a clinic and for just $300.00 you can attend? Let’s put “money spent” vs. “getting to the next level” in perspective. Let’s use the Tom House ad as an example. I was reading their website that they placed on the HSBBW for his clinics (at Julie’s expense of course). The “ad” states that for $150.00 your son can spend 30 minutes with Tom House? If spending $150.00 works, I would spend the money but I am a little skeptical. (look at how much you COULD spend with Mr. House if you used his total packsge) YIKES! I’m like most every other parent that wanted to do everything I could to help my son along the way as he went from a pre-high school baseball player thru college to a pro baseball player and I can tell you the BEST thing I ever did was find the HSBBW. I think that bears repeating --- THE BEST THING I EVER DID WAS FIND THE HSBBW!
Cumulatively speaking there is much more relative and unbiased information on the HSBBW on how to get your son to the next level than Tom House could ever give you. While Mr. House charges $150.00 for 30 minutes of his information the information here is basically FREE --- however you and I both know there ain’t nothing free --- You just haven’t thought about the bills Julie gets every month. Let’s all chip in and pay 'em! Hey, If we send a little more than she actually needs, then I say she can keep the change for all her hard work!
Fungo

Elegant.

And, with your permission, will drop that down into the heart of Texas.

I don't think we should lay blame for FREE advertising on Tom House but the organization that is sponsoring his appearance?

Very nice Fungo. Very nice indeed.