HSBBW Experiment

quote:

Originally posted by all322:

quote:

Pitchers Should Be Able To Hit

Well you're just stupid "thought challenged" for thinking that.

A workhorse MLB starter might get about 65 - 70 AB in a season, with those AB's coming in groups of 3 or so every 5 games.

I do not believe that is enough consistent game reps, against MLB pitching, to expect much in the way of numbers. I do believe it is not unreasonable to expect an MLB pitcher to be able to bunt and hit a ground ball to advance a runner. But drive the ball with regularity? No.

I agree. My LHP loves to hit & has the 2nd highest batting average on the team. He'd be sad if he didn't get to hit.

quote:

Originally posted by all322:

quote:

Originally posted by all322:

quote:

Pitchers Should Be Able To Hit

Well you're just stupid "thought challenged" for thinking that.

Rule #4. You CAN call me stupid as long as you make it funny.

I was a pitcher in HS and hit in the 3 or 4 hole. When I played in college I was a PO only. I believe this what drove me away from the game after my first year in college.

OMG

Depending upon the level of play, it is very difficult to do both.

Now I understand why AL pitchers seem so much more durable and can put in more innings over the NL pitchers (except for a few). It used to be that pitchers would just bunt, now they are expected to hit.

The pitcher in the pro game isn't necessarily a wasted at bat, but more like an injury waiting to happen.

JMO.

BiggerP, didn't you violate the rules? Oh wait, you can't answer this.

It is a shame that specialization occurs so early, and many pitchers quit hitting in high school. However, there have been pitchers who weren't awful, and as a NL fan, you don't take it as an automatic out.

I'll play...

Most HS pitchers hit, unless you're at some super stud HS that is loaded. The best position players tend to also be pitchers and vice versa. Mine hit 4 last year for his HS team.

In college, the demands are incredible. My freshman son posted to his facebook page this morning at 6:30am, "Sleep is priceless". He's an engineering student and pitcher. He doesn't have time to also be a hitter. Based on his hitting talent, if he showed up to BP, security would be called. Thankfully his schedule won't allow this.

In MiLB, they want pitchers pitching. They don't necessarily give very talented pitchers who can also hit the opportunity to develop their hitting like all the other position players. Doesn't mean they can't hit, just means they don't get equal opportunity.

As previously pointed out, those that make it to MLB in the NL get to take regular BP, but they simply don't get enough AB's to become consistent hitters. There are the odd exceptions, but by and large this is the case.

It doesn't mean if they'd chosen a different route they couldn't have developed into a great hitter, it's just hard once they pick the pitching road...

The only thing I hate about the game most of us love, is the DH. Baseball was played for decades, the way it was meant to be. Everyone that played in the field had to hit. Pretty simple really when you think about it and certainly the ability of a pitcher "to help himself" influenced the outcome of many a game.

Funny, that "in the day" many Pitchers were fair hitters; Gibson, Drysdale, Sphan, Burdette, Ford and others. Amazingly, athletes could pitch, hit and field without injury. They could do more than sac bunt unlike some that would say "it's just too difficult to do both." I would like to see Pitchers hitting become a regular part of every level of baseball once again.

I'm thinking of starting a new poll entitled what was Papi's poll about?

1. Pitchers should be able to hit but don't because of DH or
2. Pitchers should be able to hit but for some reason they aren't very good at it.

I fully expect the various web police to quickly correct this poll.

quote:

Originally posted by igball:
I'm thinking of starting a new poll entitled what was Papi's poll about?

1. Pitchers should be able to hit but don't because of DH or
2. Pitchers should be able to hit but for some reason they aren't very good at it.

I fully expect the various web police to quickly correct this poll.

oops .... you are right. I'm confused AND I responded more than once ..... excommunicated ... OUTTAH HERE.

Just throwing this out there, but maybe pitchers don't hit very well because one side of their body is over developed. All of the power is in the push leg and their throwing arm.

Or maybe it is just that so few people can hit anyway that the odds of being able to hit a 95 mph fastball, an 88 mph slider and other breaking balls and then have the ability to throw the same things is just genetically impossible.

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Originally posted by JMoff:
In college, the demands are incredible. My freshman son posted to his facebook page this morning at 6:30am, "Sleep is priceless".

Have to agree. My son is home for the long weekend and they basically have two-a-days. Conditioning at 6:30 AM, then class. Then "practice" at 3 pm til 5-6 pm. Throw in homework and he's lucky to be in bed by midnight.

He would definitely agree on the sleep being priceless.

And this is just in preparation for the fall season (20 games). Looks like playing time will be limited - 55 players fighting for 35 slots - most have NLI's and a few are walk-ons.

My son is a two way player in college. It takes a lot of discipline to get in the work required for both positions. He sometimes has to miss some of the OF defense work to get in his pitching work. He also found out this summer that the position vs pitcher weight lifting programs have conflicts. It is not easy but it is doable, but there are compromises. I think the higher the level you go up the more difficult it is to compete and to manage to get in the work necessary and balance the gym and off field work. That said it can be done. As a side note I hate the DH as it has taken so much strategy away from the game.

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So the topic is:

Pitchers Should Be Able To Hit

I believe all pitchers were once good all around baseball players, including hitting. Today, I think it's a shame that, in most cases, the pitcher's spot is considered to be an automatic out.

I agree but the problem is that college baseball programs prefer to use the DH, as well as MiLB. If a pitcher is lucky enough to get to MLB, he probably hasn't swung a bat in years. He has to re-learn how to hit, and that takes time. Some pitchers do re-learn the skill and others don't.

Through high school the nine players on the field, including pitchers should hit. Until the age of "too soon" specialization the best player on most high school teams was the P/SS or P/CF.

That said, I was a reluctant pitcher. Pitching affected my hitting. By the second at bat I would be a split second slower at the plate and a half step slower on the bases due to fatigue. Conversely on a hot day I hated the big, dirty slide then heading for the mound dirty and sweaty.

In college I was a two way player for two years only because I volunteered to be a lefty specialist as a freshman. It was an opportunity to play more. It was a lot of effort to get in all the work as a position player and a pitcher.

At the professional level most pitchers are so overwhelmed at the plate (even before there was a DH at any level) I welcomed the DH. I recognize the debate on strategy differences between the two leagues due to the DH.

My feeling is what the DH lends to the lineup four times per game outweights the one "do I leave my starter in the game" strategy moment. Besides, with the specialization of pitchers most starters don't go more than six or seven innings anymore which mostly eliminates the strategy debate.

I remember a day when the worst insult tossed at a pitcher was he's a seven inning pitcher. Now a seven inning pitcher is a stud.

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Pitchers Should Be Able To Hit

Pitchers can hit if they are good enough to, right? It's a question of whether that pitcher is one of the 9 best hitters on the team...usually not.

I would like to see baseball have free substitution like you have in football and basketball!

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"I would like to see baseball have free substitution like you have in football and basketball!"

Hey Tx...could I ask a favor of you? Since you're up to speed with the substitution rules could you drop by my favorite dive and talk them into allowing them. As much as I like their Texas Toast I'd really like another heap of their greasy hash browns!





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My son and I have an ongoing disagreement about this. Now that he is in college, he has hung up the bat and is really glad. He says that he wants to take up golf (don't all pitchers?) and that it would mess with swinging a bat. He prefers to concentrate on pitching.

My take is that pitchers should hit. It's part of the game. Our high school coach ended up having someone DH for most of the pitchers. Funny thing was, that they had my son hit in the home run derby over Spring break (didn't want to screw up a non-pitcher's swing) and he ended up winning the derby. Over the Summer after not playing for over a month (arm was sore), they put him in to hit and he hit it out of the park at a local University. (Okay, so it was only Legion ball but that is another argument/discussion.

By the way, I seem to recall the Cubs actually sending in Zambrano to pinch hit in a couple games. Not necessarily an automatic out.

Son was number 3 hitter his Senior year and did very well. Went to college after a injury plagued summer (lacerated kidney) were he did not get to play or practice after early June. Coach says he will get a chance to hit in fall and see how he does. You can imagine the results after laying off for most the Summer. Son was not happy.

He goes on to have a great spring as a pitcher only. This summer he gets to hit again. He doesn't play in the field much but dh's for the other pitchers and hits his turn of the rotation. Hits well all summer.

After summer I ask him if he is going to try and hit for his college team again in the fall. he tells me his summer coach said he would talk to his college coach, The coaches know each other very well, about his hitting and how well he did.

Son declines the offer. He said he feels that even though it was fun to hit, he feels he did not have the velocity that he had in the spring, and that being a superstitious ball player that he would rather not hit in the spring.

Go figure....

Is the experiment over? TX Husker and biggerpapi have two posts. Personally, I can't see how can you keep a good topic going if you can't respond to a post? I am sorry if I ruined the experiment.

When they took the bat out of sons hands in HS he was really upset, two years later he was able to pick up the bat and be the HR and BA leader on his team his senior year of HS. He was awarded utility player in our county.

Contrary to what some think, national league starting pitchers get batting practice and hit beginning in AA. They only hit when the opposite team is another national team. Depending on rotation and league make up, a pitcher could be hitting every outing.

When DK first got the bat back in his hands around 5-6 years after hitting in HS, he loved it, but after a game or two, he found out that in 100+ TL degree heat wearing 2 hats affected his pitching. I think it (hitting) also affected him after his return from rehab from surgery on elbow nerve transposition. He was glad when he was moved to the pen. It was considered a demotion but he was so bothered by hitting he saw it as relief.

I am pretty much a traditionalist, I always thought that the DH took away a lot from the game, I still do. Pitching is so specialized, and teams pay a lot of money for pitchers. I do believe that because of starting pitching injuries that hurt teams in late season contention, eventually the DH will rule.

Biggerpapi's 1st post wasn't a response. Bye.

I think pitchers should be able to hit, as long as the competition allows. As pitching gets better and more competitive, hitters spend many hours taking BP. Conversely, as hitters get better and more competitive, pitcher spend many hours working on their craft in the bull pen, weight room, etc. That being said, it is tough to do both but it can be done. Anyone notice that Stephen Strasburg has a .277 BA this year. Not too shabby.

Go check out Rick Ankiel's lifetime hitting stats - since he played Nat league as a picher, he's the closest thing to any kind of control group.

I'm seeing that he hit 250 ish as a position player, and that his only season with significant AB's as a pitcher was also 250.

I was expecting to see a more stark increase in BA after the position switch. Big difference in Slugging Perc., though.