The Canes are hosting an ID Camp.
Where: Riverbend HS, Fredericksburg VA
When: April 19
10:30am check in
11am start
Classes: 2009-2012
Check out Canes Baseball for more info.
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I don't understand something I guess. The Hurricanes are having a game or games on April 19th? Aren't these guys also or already playing for their high school team? What gives here?
Sorry...We are hosting an ID Camp on the 19th.
I am sorry but what is a ID camp? Do the kids play games?
So checking the site it looks like kids are trying our for the Hurricanes team. April 19 is right in the middle of the high school season. If a kid gets hurt at this camp and can't play for his high school team does anyone care how this affects the high school team and the high school coach? What if a kid gets hit by a pitched ball or a bad hop and is out of action for a couple of weeks? It sounds to me like the Hurricanes don't care about a kids baseball unless that kid is playing for them. I think kids are being kinda selfish by going to camps like this and risking injury and I think coaches who invite kids to camps like this during the high school season are just as selfish. Of course I guess the coaches get paid either way.
Any HS coach worth anything would not let his players on another team during season. It is not right to your team mates to risk an injury and leave their season in jepardy.
At an id camp the participants engage in the same activities they engage in for baseball practice, for the most part, just fewer repetitions. Take 3 or 4 ground balls at short for infielders, fly balls for the outfielders with throwing to bases, throw downs for catchers, bp, etc. In addition, they run the 40 and 60 (don’t they run in high school practices also?) A player is not hurt by more practice, he just gets better. Besides, kids can get hurt any place. Maybe they should not practice baseball because they might get hurt and not be available for the game. What about pe in school? Should they be excused from physical education in high school? They might get hurt.
Id camps (not just the Hurricanes but other teams, such as Impact Baseball and the Under Armour National Team) are not for the purpose of establishing teams that will be playing during the school season but for establishing teams that will play after the high school season is over in June. The teams give players the opportunity to play in almost 4x the number of high school games, a great way for the better player to further advance his skills, and at many college venues (look at the scheduled locations for some of the showcase organizations). There is much preseason planning in which parents of selected players would have to engage – hotels for tournaments, uniforms to order, etc. so they cannot wait until June for the selection process to begin, particularly since some selections are national in scope.
Finally, VHSL rule appear to provide that the student could play even if it was for games: 28-11-1 INDEPENDENT TEAM RULE-Student responsibility for sports participation. During the sports season for the relevant sport, a student may, while a member of a school
squad or team engaged in interscholastic sports become a member of or participate with
an organized team in the same sport which is independent of the school's control so long
as such participation does not conflict with the scheduled activities of the school squad or
team.
HR, are advocating that high school coaches should deny the player an opportunity which the VHSL rules appear to address in the player’s favor?
Id camps (not just the Hurricanes but other teams, such as Impact Baseball and the Under Armour National Team) are not for the purpose of establishing teams that will be playing during the school season but for establishing teams that will play after the high school season is over in June. The teams give players the opportunity to play in almost 4x the number of high school games, a great way for the better player to further advance his skills, and at many college venues (look at the scheduled locations for some of the showcase organizations). There is much preseason planning in which parents of selected players would have to engage – hotels for tournaments, uniforms to order, etc. so they cannot wait until June for the selection process to begin, particularly since some selections are national in scope.
Finally, VHSL rule appear to provide that the student could play even if it was for games: 28-11-1 INDEPENDENT TEAM RULE-Student responsibility for sports participation. During the sports season for the relevant sport, a student may, while a member of a school
squad or team engaged in interscholastic sports become a member of or participate with
an organized team in the same sport which is independent of the school's control so long
as such participation does not conflict with the scheduled activities of the school squad or
team.
HR, are advocating that high school coaches should deny the player an opportunity which the VHSL rules appear to address in the player’s favor?
The problem I see is first its a kids HS season and that should come first. A kid should be loyal to his high school team first. Sure he could get hurt stepping off the curb at the mall but that is a accident while getting hurt like hurting your arm throwing or twisting an ankle turning a DP for the Hurricanes is not an accident. Its being selfish. The high school has to play with the players they have. They don't get to invite players from all over the county to try out for one high school team. I don't really care what Impacts motives are but they are not the least bit concerned about the athlete's high school program or the kids high school coach. I guess the attitude is "if you get hurt son and can't play for your school you should be fine to play with us during the summer."
Seems to me that Impact Baseball, Hurricanes or what ever program is running these camps during the high school season is basically saying "screw the high school program". If this is really on the up and up does Impact, Hurricanes etc even bother contacting high school coaches of the players involved?
Seems to me that Impact Baseball, Hurricanes or what ever program is running these camps during the high school season is basically saying "screw the high school program". If this is really on the up and up does Impact, Hurricanes etc even bother contacting high school coaches of the players involved?
Steinbrenner posted the VHSL rule that reads, "a student may, while a member of a school
squad or team engaged in interscholastic sports become a member of or participate with
an organized team in the same sport which is independent of the school's control so long as such participation does not conflict with the scheduled activities of the school squad or team
so in your mind a catcher hurts his arm at this camp...maybe it was sore to begin with because of his use of the arm in practice and games and now his daddy is putting pressure on him to go to this camp or the kids "has" to go to this camp to get a scholarship...so the catcher injuries his arm and is out for the rest of his high school season.....that is okay with these organizations and it really doesn't conflict the school squad or team?
Say what you want but this about money and its not about the money the parents have to pay, or the money a kid may get for a scholarship. Bottom line is this, how much money do the coaches make a year coaching these teams? How much free travel and free meals and free hotel lodging do these coaches get? Don't bore me telling me they don't do it for the money. Ok lets say they don't. So how much money do the coaches make and how much free travel, food, etc . do they get. Its like some AAU coaches who travel a lot and somehow their families always are with them staying in nice cities and nice hotels and flying. Who is paying for their chits?
squad or team engaged in interscholastic sports become a member of or participate with
an organized team in the same sport which is independent of the school's control so long as such participation does not conflict with the scheduled activities of the school squad or team
so in your mind a catcher hurts his arm at this camp...maybe it was sore to begin with because of his use of the arm in practice and games and now his daddy is putting pressure on him to go to this camp or the kids "has" to go to this camp to get a scholarship...so the catcher injuries his arm and is out for the rest of his high school season.....that is okay with these organizations and it really doesn't conflict the school squad or team?
Say what you want but this about money and its not about the money the parents have to pay, or the money a kid may get for a scholarship. Bottom line is this, how much money do the coaches make a year coaching these teams? How much free travel and free meals and free hotel lodging do these coaches get? Don't bore me telling me they don't do it for the money. Ok lets say they don't. So how much money do the coaches make and how much free travel, food, etc . do they get. Its like some AAU coaches who travel a lot and somehow their families always are with them staying in nice cities and nice hotels and flying. Who is paying for their chits?
The question is, out of 100 or 150 players, how many really have any chance at all of playing for the Canes? They are teams of top Div I talent--period. Go for the "Tryout Experience," or go if you are top Div I talent, or go if you want to practice. But don't whine about it or complain about it.
Local8SS,
I am sure you are just trying to protect the VHSL players. We, on the other hand, are responding to the MANY HS coaches who have asked us to take a look at their players. We are looking to fill out rosters for the summer.
I am sure you are just trying to protect the VHSL players. We, on the other hand, are responding to the MANY HS coaches who have asked us to take a look at their players. We are looking to fill out rosters for the summer.
Local8SS,
As for money, I have coached my 15U team since they were 8U. I've never accepted money for coaching them even though the parents on the team asked me to do so. I do it because I love it. I have a little bit of knowledge about the game and enjoy teaching it to kids who want to learn and work at getting better.
It sounds like your experiences weren't very good. That is unfortunate.
As for money, I have coached my 15U team since they were 8U. I've never accepted money for coaching them even though the parents on the team asked me to do so. I do it because I love it. I have a little bit of knowledge about the game and enjoy teaching it to kids who want to learn and work at getting better.
It sounds like your experiences weren't very good. That is unfortunate.
I still think it is irresponsible toward your team mates. Once a team begins practice, a player should not miss any unless injured. Just my opinion, everyone has one.
There is an entire season for these teams to look at players and scout who they want to invite to play for them.
There is an entire season for these teams to look at players and scout who they want to invite to play for them.
Over the years, I have seen players lose time due to injuries suffered during horseplay, skateboarding, riding an ATV, you name it.
Heaven forbid they should PLAY BASEBALL IN THEIR SPARE TIME, as opposed to these other pursuits.
I'm with those who think all this carping smacks of sour grapes. I don't think for one minute that any of you guys give a rat's hind parts about whether the kid might get hurt. Heck, he might get hurt for his HS team and miss the whole summer recruiting season, ever think of it that way? What this all starts to sound like is the jealous mistress -- heaven forbid they might play somewhere else, not just with us! A refrain, I might add, common to many of your more control-freak-minded HS coaches, the kinds who pooh pooh travel ball and try to manage every player's future for them. (And no, I'm not indicting all HS coaches, but there are the bad apples out there.)
I suppose the next thing we'll hear is a bunch of garbage about how they choose all these teams through politics because they have no way of really comparing one player to another and yada yada yada.
Here's a team that tries to give everyone a shot, holds an open tryout (on a SUNDAY, people!), and all we get is more garbage from the angle du jour.
I'm with Warriordad. If you don't like it, don't go.
We are fortunate to have a few programs in this state who help kids build futures in baseball. We should support them, not dump all over them.
Heaven forbid they should PLAY BASEBALL IN THEIR SPARE TIME, as opposed to these other pursuits.
I'm with those who think all this carping smacks of sour grapes. I don't think for one minute that any of you guys give a rat's hind parts about whether the kid might get hurt. Heck, he might get hurt for his HS team and miss the whole summer recruiting season, ever think of it that way? What this all starts to sound like is the jealous mistress -- heaven forbid they might play somewhere else, not just with us! A refrain, I might add, common to many of your more control-freak-minded HS coaches, the kinds who pooh pooh travel ball and try to manage every player's future for them. (And no, I'm not indicting all HS coaches, but there are the bad apples out there.)
I suppose the next thing we'll hear is a bunch of garbage about how they choose all these teams through politics because they have no way of really comparing one player to another and yada yada yada.
Here's a team that tries to give everyone a shot, holds an open tryout (on a SUNDAY, people!), and all we get is more garbage from the angle du jour.
I'm with Warriordad. If you don't like it, don't go.
We are fortunate to have a few programs in this state who help kids build futures in baseball. We should support them, not dump all over them.
Look you guys don't have to agree with me and I don't care but if a kid gets hurt AT a camp like this and THEN can't play for his HIGH SCHOOL team during the HIGH SCHOOL season I don't think thats right. I don't care that a kid can get hurt ANYTIME. IF he gets hurt at A camp like THIS how does that help the HIGH SCHOOL coach and HIS SCHOOLS team? If a kid gets hurt playing in a PE class that is something required by the school so not much can be said. IF he gets hurt playing PICKUP basketball I think you can MAKE a case for the kid being selfish as it hurts his HIGH SCHOOL TEAM.
Now if the kid gets hurt playing for his high school team the camp coach simply goes and gets another high profile recruit and moves on....so really who cares the most...
I no most of you don't agree and thats fine. I think there are many high school programs in this state that help kids build futures in baseball as well so lets not make these other groups seem so majestic and noble.
Interestingly no one talked about how much money and how much free travel/lodging/food the coaches and families get in return.
Now if the kid gets hurt playing for his high school team the camp coach simply goes and gets another high profile recruit and moves on....so really who cares the most...
I no most of you don't agree and thats fine. I think there are many high school programs in this state that help kids build futures in baseball as well so lets not make these other groups seem so majestic and noble.
Interestingly no one talked about how much money and how much free travel/lodging/food the coaches and families get in return.
One last post on this topic. I don't have a son who plays baseball. I just like high school baseball. I do know a little about AAU baseball and the money end and for many its a cash cow. I haven't had a son play ID camp, AAU or high school baseball. So all your calls for sour grapes are kinda stupid. I just have an opinion and opinions are just like your noses...they all smell....and not just mine.
quote:Originally posted by Local8SS:
...Interestingly no one talked about how much money and how much free travel/lodging/food the coaches and families get in return.
Uhhhh...I did. I guess it is easy for one side of the argument when you ignore the other half.
I am not sure what your point is if you don't have a HS baseball player in the family. But to each his own. For anyone unsure, then I suggest attending an ID Camp just to observe and educate. This would be very helpful to pre-HS players to see where they stack up.
I do have a son playing HS ball and can speak from past experience about the subject of travel teams, and the exposure they provide.
If a player wants to play college ball and/or beyond; I mean really has a passion for it, then he should join a HS Showcase team. His chances of achieving his dream will improve by ten fold.
My son has a dream, and my job as a caring father is to help him reach it in any way possible.
We chose the Richmond Braves and have not regretted one minute of it. Yes it is costly to be in hotels and travel, but can you put a price on a dream?
www.eteamz.com/richmondbraves0910/index.cfm
Our ID camp is Sunday April 5th at James River High
www.RichmondBraves.net
for more info
More great travel teams in Virginia other than the Braves and Canes to help reach that dream are:
www.tidewaterorioles.com
www.eteamz.com/patriotsball
www.midatlanticmets.net
Go for it, don't settle to be the big fish at your HS. Challenge yourself
I do have a son playing HS ball and can speak from past experience about the subject of travel teams, and the exposure they provide.
If a player wants to play college ball and/or beyond; I mean really has a passion for it, then he should join a HS Showcase team. His chances of achieving his dream will improve by ten fold.
My son has a dream, and my job as a caring father is to help him reach it in any way possible.
We chose the Richmond Braves and have not regretted one minute of it. Yes it is costly to be in hotels and travel, but can you put a price on a dream?
www.eteamz.com/richmondbraves0910/index.cfm
Our ID camp is Sunday April 5th at James River High
www.RichmondBraves.net
for more info
More great travel teams in Virginia other than the Braves and Canes to help reach that dream are:
www.tidewaterorioles.com
www.eteamz.com/patriotsball
www.midatlanticmets.net
Go for it, don't settle to be the big fish at your HS. Challenge yourself
Bottom line- Showcase teams are your sons ticket to the next level. College recruiters (assistant coaches) aren't coming to your high school game. That is why you try and get in a good CDP.
I think local 855 sounds like one of those controlling HS coaches who does zero to help his players advance to the next level.
By the way, I am a coach and I don't get paid anything but satisfaction.
I think local 855 sounds like one of those controlling HS coaches who does zero to help his players advance to the next level.
By the way, I am a coach and I don't get paid anything but satisfaction.
quote:Originally posted by Vagntlmn:
Bottom line- Showcase teams are your sons ticket to the next level. College recruiters (assistant coaches) aren't coming to your high school game. That is why you try and get in a good CDP.
I think local 855 sounds like one of those controlling HS coaches who does zero to help his players advance to the next level.
By the way, I am a coach and I don't get paid anything but satisfaction.
VAG, Coach From APP State had requested my son's HS Schedule and stated that he wanted to watch him play, as well as other players that they were interested in from other High Schools.. College coaches do come to HS games, just FYI.
Yes, college coaches do come to HS games. But usually they are coming to see in person someone they've read about, e.g., on PGCrosschecker, or maybe someone recommended to them by someone they trust. It is highly unusual for a kid to get "discovered" by a college coach scouting a HS game. When it does happen, it's usually because the coach was there to see someone else and the new kid opened his eyes a bit. I was at a James River v. Cosby game in 2007, and I saw several colleges' assistants there. But then, that game featured at least 10 kids who would end up signing NLI's (and if you don't believe me, I can name them all for you). How many HS games are like that one?
As for travel ball coaches taking money, I do know of coaches and programs who do take money, sometimes a decent amount, though I don't know of anyone getting rich off of it. We were fortunate that our son played from ages 8 through 18, even for teams that won national championships, and never once did we ever play for a coach who took money beyond maybe getting his hotel bill paid.
The Richmond Braves National 2008 team asked players and their families to put in some time working concessions at tourneys that were held to raise funds. That was it. The Braves' coaches took no money, but if their hotel rooms got paid for, that seems awfully fair to me given the service they gave in return. One player on that team pocket a seven-figure bonus last summer and almost the entire remainder of the roster is on a college team with some scholarship money to show for it at this point.
Similarly, my son played one fall (2007) with the Hurricanes and while I think their coaches got their travel expenses reimbursed, they took no net pay out of it. They did it for the love of the game and the chance to work with the kids. And oh, yeah, I think every kid on that roster signed an NLI, and one who was then an underclassman may go pro this June.
I realize HS coaches don't get paid much, but do bear in mind that they do get SOMETHING. So why is it that folks are always chewing on travel coaches, who work hard, provide a valuable service, and in some cases make a little money? It's not like you have to buy what they're selling if you don't like it.
At the root of this is an ongoing resentment out there for travel ball and the fact that some kids seem to be getting a one-up through it. My suggestion is, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Get your kid on a top travel team and be one of those who benefit, not one of those who sit and carp about how life is unfair, how people screw other people all the time, etc. If you like fuming all the time, you will certainly get your opportunities. If you're trying to help a son with some talent actually get where he's trying to go, take a positive step instead.
As for travel ball coaches taking money, I do know of coaches and programs who do take money, sometimes a decent amount, though I don't know of anyone getting rich off of it. We were fortunate that our son played from ages 8 through 18, even for teams that won national championships, and never once did we ever play for a coach who took money beyond maybe getting his hotel bill paid.
The Richmond Braves National 2008 team asked players and their families to put in some time working concessions at tourneys that were held to raise funds. That was it. The Braves' coaches took no money, but if their hotel rooms got paid for, that seems awfully fair to me given the service they gave in return. One player on that team pocket a seven-figure bonus last summer and almost the entire remainder of the roster is on a college team with some scholarship money to show for it at this point.
Similarly, my son played one fall (2007) with the Hurricanes and while I think their coaches got their travel expenses reimbursed, they took no net pay out of it. They did it for the love of the game and the chance to work with the kids. And oh, yeah, I think every kid on that roster signed an NLI, and one who was then an underclassman may go pro this June.
I realize HS coaches don't get paid much, but do bear in mind that they do get SOMETHING. So why is it that folks are always chewing on travel coaches, who work hard, provide a valuable service, and in some cases make a little money? It's not like you have to buy what they're selling if you don't like it.
At the root of this is an ongoing resentment out there for travel ball and the fact that some kids seem to be getting a one-up through it. My suggestion is, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Get your kid on a top travel team and be one of those who benefit, not one of those who sit and carp about how life is unfair, how people screw other people all the time, etc. If you like fuming all the time, you will certainly get your opportunities. If you're trying to help a son with some talent actually get where he's trying to go, take a positive step instead.
Both my son's are on the Richmond Braves travel team and we couldnt be happier. I was just stating that college coaches do come to HS games, following a statement mention earlier about college coaches do not attend games. Yes, I agree they just don't "show up" (they are very busy) and they are there to look at a specific player(s) and as you have mention that is how other kids can be "discovered."
With NCAA rule changes shortening the season this year aren't some of the D-1 schools playing up to 5 games a week? I think this will further decrease the amount of time assistant coaches will have to attend HS games unless it is for a very targeted prospect.
Red Bird Says...
I know how you hate to be ignored so I will respond. I don't think this one comment means that much. Sorry
To the Vagntlman....you assume way to much and you know what happens when you assume. Are you ok with the assumptions I could make of you off of your posts? Actually I wouldn't make assumptions about who you are, what you do or what your motives are.
quote:As for money, I have coached my 15U team since they were 8U. I've never accepted money for coaching them even though the parents on the team asked me to do so.
I know how you hate to be ignored so I will respond. I don't think this one comment means that much. Sorry
To the Vagntlman....you assume way to much and you know what happens when you assume. Are you ok with the assumptions I could make of you off of your posts? Actually I wouldn't make assumptions about who you are, what you do or what your motives are.
quote:Originally posted by Local8SS:
I know how you hate to be ignored so I will respond. I don't think this one comment means that much. Sorry.
Since I work for your attention so much, it does hurt.
To recap, you don't have a son who plays baseball and you don't know what an ID Camp is...so why are you concerned with this thread again?
I would hate to assume that the assumee who hates assuming just assumed Redbird hates to be ignored, so I won't. 
quote:Originally posted by 3up-3down:
I would hate to assume that the assumee who hates assuming just assumed Redbird hates to be ignored, so I won't.
Try saying that 3 times quickly.
