I guess it never stops

A better question to ask is when did it begin?

Are you kidding me! Man, I was looking forward to the next level. I thought we would be able to leave all that behind us. Oh well.

I was at a D1 game yesterday where several dads were raking over the head coach for his handling of pitchers. They were very vocal the players who have been with the program don't respect him and his time is almost up. They must have been dads of senior pitchers replaced by the coach's recruits. The coach has been there three years. The team is having their best season in several years.

I will admit I wondered a couple of times why no one was up in the pen, but I wouldn't be publicly vocal about it if my son played there. I'd also be happy the program appears to be improving.

the thing that i never understood, they don't know who is listening. you could have been a scout and may not have liked what you heard. baggage is baggage,the players and the parents. nobody wants to much.

20dad

It got so bad I was almost tempted to turn around and ask them "Can I pass the message along to Coach. I am having dinner with him tonight"

Would have loves to have seen the look on their faces

Why didn't you? You don't seem to be one to hold back and that would have at least shut them up. I often watch my son's games with the coaches family and if someone runs their mouth about Coach, his daughter will personally confront them on the spot. She'll say, that's my Dad you are talking about, is there something you want to tell me or have me tell him. It has happened more than once and it's great!

Not exactly on topic, but I read Michael Lewis's book "Coach" on the plane this morning. Very short read but full of a lot of good observations about how the game has changed, including the role of parents in these changes. If you have a spare 30 minutes it's definitely worth the read. Yes, it's that short.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
20dad

It got so bad I was almost tempted to turn around and ask them "Can I pass the message along to Coach. I am having dinner with him tonight"

Would have loves to have seen the look on their faces

I think that would have been funny!!

I have had the privilege of going to several games this year. It's great being at one where no one knows you... you hear things about players and coaches that make your head spin sometime.

One game I was at last summer (a regional play off college game) the parents were brutal on one of the umps. He happened to be from my home area and had done HS games during my son's HS career. Therefore, I recognized his wife and daughter as they often came to HS games. He was very intentional in not drawing attention to that fact. The fans around us were just terrible! After the game, I went up to the wife and told her that I knew who she was and that I apologized for some very unfair comments. She just laughed and said she was use to it. I think these families probably grow some very thick skin.

quote:

Originally posted by puma1:
Why didn't you? You don't seem to be one to hold back and that would have at least shut them up. I often watch my son's games with the coaches family and if someone runs their mouth about Coach, his daughter will personally confront them on the spot. She'll say, that's my Dad you are talking about, is there something you want to tell me or have me tell him. It has happened more than once and it's great!

Just like TR always says, "this is cyberspace".
Alot can be said here that woudn't be said in public.

I have no problem letting have a verbal barrage but it was also "spring weekend" and had no idea if they had been to beer stand---many of the student in the stands were carrying beer----and I was just up from the home team dugout and I am great friends with the staff thus I saw no need to make a stink--- in this case I think disgression was the better part of valor

That shows how much I know. I didn't even know they sold beer at college baseball games. That's a whole new thread. Nothing like a bunch of under aged college students walking around drunk at a college baseball game!

thats a balk


They didnt sell it at the game---it was a "spring weekend" with Entertainment etc going on all over campus---some of the kids brought it in with them

Listening to students on their cell phones was another trip--talking about grade 4 thru 1 hang overs--ouch !!!

This type of thing is why I prefer to watch games either from the dugout or out off on my own somewhere. This goes for all sports.

This is also why my dad watched games last spring from the bullpen or our neighbors' backyard and why he watched football games from the track. My mom will sit in the stands with other parents, but my dad will not.

This reminds me of a time I was trying to enjoy a beautiful spring baseball game in Manchester, CT.

This long-haired fellow in front of me would not quit singing throughout the game. Songs from "The Spirit" I think.

Some people have no manners!

It certainly does not end...which is why I am "choosy" about which parents I sit with at games.

It will never stop at any level. I was watch a HS game and I just happen to be standing by two dads. They complained the whole about what they would done differently. How the coach is clueless? They shared all their views with me. The told me what their kids said about the coach. This coach has won a section title and should win another this year. After the game was over, the coach walks up to me says "Hey, don't forget to stop by my house tomorrow." He then asked if I was going to stick around we could talk. The look on both parents faces was priceless.

quote:

I didn't even know they sold beer at college baseball games.

I haven't been to a northeastern field (PA & New England) that's enclosed where a fan couldn't bring anything they want. The parks aren't enclosed. There isn't admission. An exception may be Penn State. They play in a minor league park. I've never been to a game there. It's too far just to go watch a game.

quote:

Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:
That shows how much I know. I didn't even know they sold beer at college baseball games. That's a whole new thread. Nothing like a bunch of under aged college students walking around drunk at a college baseball game!

In all my years I have been to only one bb game where someone was drunk and removed from the stands, from tailgating at a regional and that fan was not a fan of our team. Drunken fans at college baseball games is not familiar to me.

As far as running your mouth off, a webster here told me they sat at a game where another webster was running their mouth off about their player and had no clue that parent was right behind them. Good lesson to remember.

Sometimes it goes the other way.

Recently a parent was talking to someone about my son. He didn't know I was standing behind him.

He told this person, "not only is he a good baseball player, you ought to see him play basketball. He's only 5'10" and he can dunk the ball!"

No he can't dunk the ball. But if you're going to spread mis-truths about my son, at least lie to his advantage!

quote:

I had the pleasure off being at a fine Division I baseball game but I could not believe the parents chattering away a few row behind us---

I guess at some games you can hear a pin drop.

No it never stops.......and it doesnt matter what level.........it was prevalent at my sons D3 game yesterday.......lots of whining and complaining....regardless of the fact they have made the playoffs....

I often get asked why I dont sit with them....I always tell them to get a batter angle for photos......

I guess it's human nature as parents to question(criticise ??) a coaches decisions but whenever I have done it in front of my son he quickly sets me straight. I have learned not to say anything that could be construed as negative in front of my son. I am proud of him that he has so much loyalty to his coaches. It's also taught me that we as parents only see a small portion of what goes on with a team.

I do get tired of parents and other people that regularly attend our high school games thinking they know better than the coaches. If they know so much why aren't they coaching???????

And, many of the parents do have rose-colored glasses on concerning their sons!

"He that is without sin among you (coach criticizing), let him first cast a stone".
Hmmm....been alot of rock throwing on this topic.

I was thinking some about this topic last night. No question, it happens at all levels and its very hard to sit near it.

But here is what I was thinking about. Why are the parents the only ones we criticize for speaking their opinion openly in the stands? Are we the only ones not allowed to criticize?

No question I've heard fans all around me criticize the coaching staff of any school. I've definitely heard fans rip the players apart...including my own son. Should I have asked if they'd like me to deliver their message for them?

Just a couple of weeks ago a scout was sitting a few rows behind me before a game, talking to another scout, and I guess I can now tell you what he thinks is wrong with every nearly notable player and coaching staff in our area...and he knew who I am and where I was.

And I've sat in a hotel bar and heard coaches at the next table comment on virtually every aspect of a young kids life in a not-so-quiet way for anyone nearby to hear.

I guess I've learned to keep my own mouth shut (never know who's around?)...but I've also realized everyone is a "fan" (parents included) and part of the baseball fan culture to to 2nd-guess...pick apart decisions.

And part of a parent's job is to love their kids and have rose colored glasses. If we didn't, we wouldn't have enabled our kids to keep moving on when others said they could not.

Just some food for thought.

Justbaseball is on to some thing... parents are fans

Who hasn't sat at a pro game and listen to all the fans question the actions of the coach,umps or players?

Look at all the blogger websites with fans ranting about the bad decisions that the GM makes and how they could do a better job.....Its all part of the game.

Good post, jbb.

And it's not just in sports....I often have the opportunity to eat lunch in the faculty lounge at the schools where I sub....and am SHOCKED at the way some of the teachers rip apart kids---and not just the ones who are somewhat deserving...but others, who for whatever reason, haven't performed perfectly or to the teacher's standards. I get depressed hearing them complain.....because these teachers can influence other teachers who will teach them in subsequent years. Pre-conceived attitudes about kids aren't always good.

Great Post justbaseball!

Play Baseball - Your right.. it goes both ways...

good post jbb. The thin-skinned need not apply for player, parent or coaching positions. Baseball is a game of failure, which folks are quick to point out specifically on a regular basis.

There is a huge difference between parents ragging on the coach and bitching about their sons playing time and second guessing a manager's decision in the pros

I guess it depends on your perspective. I listened to the parents universally bash the coach on a particular play call from one of their recent games. I wasn't there so I kind of looked at it as one of those brilliant if it works and dumb if it doesn't things in a situation where they needed that something extra, due to the pitching situation. A kid who has executed often just didn't happen to execute this time. I don't think most of the parents realized they were in a bind pitching wise at that point in the game. It isn't what I would have done, but I wouldn't do a lot of things Mike Scioscia does either so that should tell you something. If I had been there, the game would have meant more to me and I probably would've been just as bad as the rest of them.

Had this very discussion with a dad the other day. He was miffed at the choice of starting pitcher for the game (by the way he has no dog in this fight as his son is not a pitcher) and pointed out what he would do different. I told him that if he asked each dad in the stands about the team they all would have different opions on how they would run the team and that no two dads would do the exact same thing. I told him that if you gave 5 cooks the same ingredients for a meal you would get 5 different tasting meals. I must confess at a couple of games I have questioned to myself some of the moves our coach has made but have kept my thoughts to myself. I believe it is human nature to question discissions at a baseball game. It just can't be helped but people should keep their thoughts to themselves. The coach is in charge and I feel for the most part knows what he is doing. The pitcher in question gave up 5 runs in the first and 1 in the 6th. We lost 5 to 6. How did our coach do?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
There is a huge difference between parents ragging on the coach and bitching about their sons playing time and second guessing a manager's decision in the pros

Yes there is. I was trying to be polite. I've heard all parties "ragging" on each other at different points in time.

A couple of points: 1) Why do you care what a random parent has to say about the coaching? (I really don't care what a random fan has to say about my son's pitching), 2) Why can't parents voice an opinion? (No doubt they had no idea who you were nor that you knew the coaches and I'm sure weren't trying to deliver any message to anyone), and 3) Is a parent always wrong just because they're a parent? (I don't complain at all, except maybe to my wife, and I once was invited by a high level coach to voice my opinion on something in which he admitted I had a good point and that he had made a mistake).

I once stood in an elevator at a university and listened to two other professors "rag" (rip?) my father the professor. Yes it hurt a little (I was about 12), but so what?!?!

Its part of life. Ignore it. (Thats "blunt" talk as you say you like!).

just

I can see the secondguessing of a coach and his strategy, that is part of the game, but to sit in the stands bitching about the sons playing time, talking about how he hates his coach etc---there is no need for that in the stands---especially when you don't know who is sitting in the area and can overhear you---it was like I was at a LL game where I would expect it

TR - We agree that we don't like it and its childish.

But I still say you just ignore it...no matter who it comes from and my experience is that it comes from all corners depending on who you may be sitting by on any given day.

I agree with JBB, ignore it. And I agree with what he said regarding it works both ways, scouts, parents, coaches all guilty of the same thing, whether it's good or bad talk about players, I'll bet some of us have been guilty of it ourselves.

If this shocks anyone, well you just haven't been to enough baseball games.

njbb makes a great point go to some of the fan sites, they have all the answers, they knock everyone.

quote:

I guess I've learned to keep my own mouth shut (never know who's around?)...

And part of a parent's job is to love their kids and have rose colored glasses. If we didn't, we wouldn't have enabled our kids to keep moving on when others said they could not.

I agree with keeping the mouth closed. I have yet to find a situation where talking about one's game can help strike someone out, field a ball, or get a base hit. Conversely, whining about things tends to fall on deaf ears and makes people seem foolish imo. Sure misery loves company sometimes but I believe in keeping things to myself.

I am not sure about rose-colored glasses being the parents job. We can facilitate things for our kids without them. I don't believe I wear them and the reason I say that is I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am content to watch a game without saying a word other than occasional encouragement to the team. I am content to let the results speak for themselves. That ought to be good enough. The one time in my son's life he did not find himself in the starting lineup, I tried to encourage him. I encouraged him to be the best teammate that he could. Encouraged him to carry the water cooler, be the biggest cheer leader, manicure the field, shag balls during batting practice, chase foul balls during the game, and so forth. In short, do whatever the team needed. It is painful not playing or be used the way someone thinks the coach ought to. There are positive ways to deal with it that will benefit the player in the long run. Teaching kids how to be a victim by whining about things in the stands is not a positive way to handle it imho.

Oh my CD! Where in the world did I say anything about teaching kids how to be vicitims and whining? NOTHING could be further from my style of parenting!

You need to re-read my posts and take them in proper context. Maybe a case of the written word being poorly presented or interpreted (by me)?

Mild griping about individual plays (e.g., "Boy, that was a dumb call!") I think is not that big of a deal. Dissecting and analyzing the game as it progresses is part of the fun of being a fan! But calling the coach "stupid" and getting downright mean is crossing the line.

I learned my lesson early in h.s. baseball about running my mouth. It was the bottom of the second inning (frosh ball) and our pitcher to say the least was not doing well. When I had to walk to my car I ran into a gentleman who asked how the team was doing. "OMG," I said, "Our pitcher is getting absolutely pounded! Doubles! Triples! Walks! It's really ugly! I'm not sure why they don't pull him out of there."

After I saw the horrified look on his face I realized it was the pitcher's dad. Whoops.

Not to worry. The kid is now signed D1 to attend Centenary College. His son and mine are on the same Summer team and we all get along great.

justbb - all that was inferred on my part. Rose colored glasses infers people not seeing reality. Arguing for people saying whatever is on their mind in the stands and telling others to ignore it infers it is ok. I did not mean to imply that you felt that way. I merely used your words to make my point. People ought to keep their negative thoughts to themselves imho. Should I ignore them? Of course but I am arguing that just because we have a right to say things in this country does not mean we ought to. Again, not implying you feel that way. Sorry that it came across that I was imputing something on to you. Clearly, you made the point that you do keep things to yourself.