I am interested in hearing other's thoughts on improving pitching command. There have been a few different schools of thought. Hopefully somebody has some pretty high level experience they can share with us.
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For 2019, it was being put in a lot of uncomfortable situations early on in his career. Fall of his freshman year he was playing 17u big boy baseball. For the first time was playing against bigger, older kids that could really hit and were not phased by 80-82. He had to learn to hit spots and hit them every pitch. All three pitches not only for strikes, but with any count, in any situation. It definitely wasn't pretty all the time, but that is what the offseason is for. Working, learning and adjusting. By the time he was 17 finally playing with the right age group it seemed like nothing to him.
In terms of drilling. Simulated games against live batters with runners on and hitters counts (2-0, 3-1). If a pitch missed spot by 3+ inches it counted as a ball (even if it was a strike). A group of them would do this and keep score to make it more fun.
Wish I had the answer. I coach a bunch of strong armed 15yo's. Can throw the hell out of the ball, but most(not all) can completely lose the ability to throw strikes for long, painful, periods of time.
One thing I've tried is to get them to do is throw to a very specific spot, whether it be the pocket of the catcher's glove, or the knee cap of the catcher. Often they are just up there chucking and hoping. Getting very specific, and very concentrated on a small target area seems to help.
One other very obvious thing is to get them to look at the target, and lock on. It's amazing how often they don't look at what they are throwing at.
I also have them throw into a net at practice with 9 numbered targets. We make a game out of it. The boys are competitive, and can often relax and have fun in situations like this. Hopefully this kind of thing can help.
There are a gazillion mechanical things than can cause a P to be inaccurate. The one i see most often is a P rushing towards the plate, causing his arm to be late. Usually results in a high, inside(to a RHB) pitch.
Not a big expert on pitching but I think there are tons of possible reasons for bad command.
It could be mental (gets nervous in games). Could be something big mechanical like bad balance or moving the head. Could be consistency of mechanics. Or could be a lack of feel out of the fingers. Need to diagnose that first.
It all comes down to repeatable mechanics. Was watching the Braves the other night and they were talking about Newcomb, who has a great arm but very inconsistent, and that's being kind. The Braves recorded him throwing 10 fast balls. In those 10 throw, he had 6 different arm slots. No way you're going to throw consistent strikes, without repeatable mechanics.
How you get to repeatable mechanics, is God given talent IMO. Yes, there are turnaround stories like RJ, but there are more stories about live arms who just couldn't get it done.
The fangraphs guys often say that athletic and well coordinated pitchers often have more room to improve their command than guys who are not so athletic and just brute strength guys
Sure better, repeatable mechanics, get more athletic...
I have formulated a belief that if you take a young pitcher and only let him throw fastballs and a vulcan type change-up until he is 15ish, it will force him to have better "command". A better word than command might be compete, because you have to hit spots. The big loopy little league curve kills most hitters at 11, 12, 13 but the real hitters catch up to it in their mid/late teens.
Or read up with what others say https://www.drivelinebaseball....ining-team-practice/
Or what our second favorite athlete on this board does https://plus.drivelinebaseball...utage-command-balls/
Repeatable mechanics is somewhat of a fallacy. It's repeatable to a point. The slightest change in one part of the delivery results in a pitch being one/two foot off of it's target. It's an athlete's feel for his body in space and to correct for those slight changes when he delivers the pitch. Some are just better at it than others. Some can be taught. And certainly there is a mental belief portion to command.
How does a shortstop hit the first baseman in the chest 1000's of times in a season? He throws from different places, angles, arm slots on every throw.
And TE, where you been?
If anyone ever cracks the code on how to teach command, they will become very, very wealthy... Imagine being pitching coach for an MLB team and being able to assure your GM that you could consistently take a kid who throws 100 mph but is wild and teach him to hit spots? Some pitching coaches manage to reach some guys some times. Some are able to do it more consistently than others. But I don't think anyone fully understands the hows or whys.
IMO, command is largely something you are (or aren't) born with, even if you are a good athlete. Lots of practice is mandatory, of course. But some guys never figure out how to throw the ball over the plate, some mysteriously lose the ability after having it for years, for some it comes and goes.
Go44dad posted:How does a shortstop hit the first baseman in the chest 1000's of times in a season? He throws from different places, angles, arm slots on every throw.
This.
Plus, a quarter inch off on release can create a 1 foot miss at home plate. For fun, point at something 50-60 feet away. Now move your finger an inch, and see where you are pointing.
Go44dad posted:Sure better, repeatable mechanics, get more athletic...
I have formulated a belief that if you take a young pitcher and only let him throw fastballs and a vulcan type change-up until he is 15ish, it will force him to have better "command". A better word than command might be compete, because you have to hit spots. The big loopy little league curve kills most hitters at 11, 12, 13 but the real hitters catch up to it in their mid/late teens.
Or read up with what others say https://www.drivelinebaseball....ining-team-practice/
Or what our second favorite athlete on this board does https://plus.drivelinebaseball...utage-command-balls/
Repeatable mechanics is somewhat of a fallacy. It's repeatable to a point. The slightest change in one part of the delivery results in a pitch being one/two foot off of it's target. It's an athlete's feel for his body in space and to correct for those slight changes when he delivers the pitch. Some are just better at it than others. Some can be taught. And certainly there is a mental belief portion to command.
How does a shortstop hit the first baseman in the chest 1000's of times in a season? He throws from different places, angles, arm slots on every throw.
And TE, where you been?
LOL. My son has moved on from HS ball, and I got a little self-centered and stopped coming in looking to help younger parents along the way. I apologize for that and will try to do better.
Let's refine this conversation a bit.
Let's say a guy wants to nail down the knee high fastball on both corners (Glove and arm side) or maybe learn to be more consistent in elevating the fastball to the correct spots. Some schools of thought say, "throw max effort and make refinements." Others say, "hey, pitchers throw max effort in games and they aren't able to refine in game, why should they be able to do it in a pen? Take enough off to where you can make the pitch you want to make consistently, feel your arm and wrist and fingers in space and time and then slowly increase your effort while continuing to feel where your arm, wrist and fingers are in space and time until you are able to do it over and over again at max effort."
Thoughts... Opinions...experience?
I would love to know what MLB guys have done along the way to develop great command. To some it comes naturally. But most everyone has to develop command.
Command takes consistent mechanics, composure and focus. Self correcting is the biggest issue. If I’m off the spot three inches on too many pitches how much do I need to compensate. It doesn’t take much adjustment to change three inches over sixty feet.
I had a friend who had the tools but lacked the composure to adjust. It took him until senior year of high school and Legion to be successful. With his potential he walked on at a D1. He never got on the mound in a game in two years before they gave up on him.
He would get to 2-0 on a hitter, get flustered, start worry about walking him and come dead center. Bam! He panicked rather than think what he had to do to adjust.
I remember in college summer ball I was playing with a guy from his college. He didn’t know we were very good friends. I thought he was going to start drooling. He told the team sit on him until he’s behind then look for the red meat. It was a little painful to hear it about my friend. But it was what I had done with him since LL.
I think first and foremost it is a mindset. As you can tell by my son's numbers, 78 K's and 4 Walks in 38 innings of pitching so far this year and 48 total walks in four years with 397 K's in 208 innings so far. He will tell you even though he could be low 90's I believe consistently, that he is not willing to walk anyone to throw harder. We have done several things to accomplish this.
We throw mostly to a target rather than a catcher for bullpens. I bought two GoSports Baseball & Softball Pitching Strike Zone Training Aid - Own the Mound! targets and put them on top of each other. You get a clearer perspective of where the ball actually hits rather than a catcher who can manipulate ball. We work on hitting corners and keeping the ball low and out or in. He also has worked real hard to command all five pitches he throws. Through repetition and video. He has never been to a pitching coach other than myself and his older brothers, one who is also older leftie D1 pitcher a few years ago.
I believe the ultimate decision is to want to hit spots and not just throw hard. I tell my guys in lessons all the time that you are either a thrower or a pitcher. I don't think you can take a guy throwing 100 and have him hit spots consistently because the mechanics to throw 100 take away from the mechanics to hit spots consistently. I think there are two successful types of pitchers and that is the flamethrowers and the spots guys and no one is both.
That’s good stuff. There were a few flame throwers who could hit spits, but the exceptions prove the rule.
Btw I don't think that command and velo are negatively correlated. Undoubtedly in mlb flame throwers on average have worse command but are probably seeing a few selection biases:
1. Hard throwers with bad command can play pro ball, soft throwers that can't locate don't.
2. Great command is a rare skill. Great velo is not super common either. That two rare events occur at once is even less likely.
If you talk in scouting grades a guy with a 40 fastball needs at least 70 command. A guy with a 70 fb can easily get away with 40 command. To have both 70 command and 70 velo you essentially need to win the lottery twice which of course is super rare.
Very good point.
1. Start early. My son and I started throwing in the yard when he was 3 or 4. If he made a bad throw, he had to run down the hill after the ball. ( no grand plan here, I was just too lazy to go get them for him). It was not long before he had pretty good command, not much velocity, but I think he was just tired from all that running.
2. Always throw to a spot, even when just having a quick toss.
3. Always had him throw with different grips when playing catch. Not necessarily turning the ball over, but just getting the feel of different pitches in his hand and basic release points for different grips.
4. I agree most of it is just born with it or not. Some kids are just fast, some kids can just really jump. And some can just throw consistently. It takes work to develop and improve, but many if not most, just can’t do it. If they can’t do it by HS then they probably never will. Yes there are exceptions, but not many.
He worked with a local college coach for 2 days at a camp when he was 8, just learning the basics, and the rest was just, throw, throw, throw. We used to buy those pitch back nets about every 6 months because he would wear them out.
I hear something very similar in our journeys with wareagle. You have to throw a lot and throw with a purpose. i did not say pitch a lot but throw a lot. I do not think guys throw enough these days but pitch too much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrvtELQ5OIY
Don't completely agree with all he says but it is close.
No Tommy Juan.
wareagle posted:1. If he made a bad throw, he had to run down the hill after the ball.
3. Always had him throw with different grips
We did this. Son played in college. Guaranteed success!!
Also, as I got older and heavier, if I made a bad throw, he had to go get it too. Lol
PitchingFan posted:I hear something very similar in our journeys with wareagle. You have to throw a lot and throw with a purpose. i did not say pitch a lot but throw a lot. I do not think guys throw enough these days but pitch too much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrvtELQ5OIY
Don't completely agree with all he says but it is close.
No Tommy Juan.
This post is 100% spot on. Kids today don't throw enough - but they pitch (in games) too much.