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Inconsistent Velocity

CADadCADad5,000+ posts
It goes back further but starting in April '09 CASon threw 81-82 in a game for a couple innings on a Friday and then on Sunday at a college camp was 85-86 and touched 87. In June at a college camp he was 85-87, mostly 86-87. A couple weeks later at a showcase he was 82-85 and touched 86. In August he was 85-87 then as summer went on and he pitched a bit too much the velocity dropped off. After not pitching much in the fall he was only 81-83 at a college camp in late November (it was cold and windy) and while trying to throw for velocity in the pen a few days before that camp couldn't break 84. We worked on a few things and in early December he was able to throw 85 and touch 87 and 88 in the pen throwing for velocity. A few days later at a college camp he was 81-83 in a bullpen situation. We made some changes in his motion designed to help his control at that point knowing that he'd lose velocity temporarily as the video from the last two sessions showed his head dramatically turning off target at release. In late February during a game he was 86-87 on his last couple warmup pitches then worked 84-85 and touched 88 with decent control. His first outing in March was 83-86 with good control. His next outing he decided to move to the left side of the rubber to get more movement and struggled with control a bit and was 81-83 for most of the outing but to one batter when he felt in control he was 84-85 and touched 88. The next outing he was 81-83 and struggled mightily with control then in his second inning of work moved back to the right side of the rubber and mostly got his control back but never got the velocity over 84. 3 days after that 3 inning 40 to 45 pitch outing (yesterday) he tried to throw for velocity in the pen and was 80-83 and topped at 84.

Every pitcher has their velocity vary to some degree and I was just wondering how many others had dealt with something similar to this?
Last edited {1}
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H hsballcoach100+ posts
quote:
throwing for velocity


I think this statement says a lot. He needs to concentrate on his pitching and mechanics. It is no wonder the speeds vary so much. If he is thinking about it this much, he cannot be focused on the things he needs to be to make him successful. The fluctuations in speed can be a gift! Disrupt the hitters timing with these and save the giddy-up for when you need it. I would be more interested on knowing if he kept the ball down, hit the corners, and threw a change-up for strikes. Those are what will make him a consistent winner. If he focuses on these things and having correct PITCHING mechanics, his velocity will show improvement because he is doing it right. If you focus too much on throwing hard, that is all you will ever do, throw hard...not pitch with velocity. Good luck, I am sure he will do great.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Beast,
Long toss and flatgrounds.

hsballcoach,
He seldom throws just for velocity. He only does that when we're concerned that something is wrong with his mechanics and we want to check to see what he's doing. BTW, I've seen a lot of HS pitchers with pretty mechanics and good command never make it to the next level due to lack of speed. Let me know when you find out what the CORRECT pitching mechanics are because there's a lot of pitchers in the bigs with different mechanics and a lot of different guru's out there saying they've got the CORRECT mechanics and they are pushing different things. Whose mechanics were CORRECT? Seaver's or Sutton's? They both worked pretty well.

Sultan,
That's pretty much what I've seen when I've been able to compare video.
Last edited by CADad
BOFBOF10,000+ posts
So looking at the speeds you listed he is more or less throwing 84-85 on average. So on his off days he might be 82-83 and his good days touching 86-87. I don’t think this is all that unusual for a young pitcher. It might seem a lot looking at the high to low but averages seem about right, -2 on an off day, +2 on a good day. Add in some variability in his mechanics and it all sounds about right.
GM Gingerbread Man500+ posts
I wouldn't worry too much. My son varries also depending on how much warm up throws he gets, how much rest he got the night before, how loose he is feeling that day, etc. Even from day to day just throwing he changes velocity. He even tells me that at times he feels really good and other times he states he is just tight. I do know that caffine in the system is not good for blood vessels to work well. keep away from caffine if they are going to pitch. Eat foods and drinks that open up the blood vessels.
J jdfromfla100+ posts
CaDad we were always a mph or 2 down in cold weather. It's thrilling to me that Cason is healthy and being able to be this consistent over the period of time you're talking about. I'm with BOF and think their will be variation.
HScoach has a point..I'd try to peak efficiencies at this point..he's made the mid's now its peak up the conditioning and get the mechs as tight as possible and then it's hello 90's.
Last edited by jdfromfla
BOFBOF10,000+ posts
CADad: I always leave the gun in the bag when my son is having an off day Wink

Your son should check into P3 sports in Santa Barbara. I am not sure if his school has a deal with them or not. If they do he should take advantage of it. He should at least go over there and see what they are doing. They do some amazing things with athletes. They are not cheap but are one of the best in the country.
RobVRobV100+ posts
Is this the same gun?

If it is, then it may be as simple as him feeling more confident and "loose" when he is throwing at higher velocities, and when he's down a few MPH he may be tight/tense and muscling the ball more.

I know my son always throws better when his confidence is up and feeling in control (looser and more fluid/quicker in his delivery).
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
I think they are the people who worked with Brett Hunter at Pepperdine when he made the big jump in velocity. One never knows if that was reason or not for the increase. We don't know yet what the school is planning for the summer so we are waiting to find that out before setting out the path for summer.
Last edited by CADad
H hsballcoach100+ posts
CADad,
I agree that mechanics conversations are like discussing politics. My best advice for you is to make sure that his mechanics are simple and repeatable over and over. If he cannot consistently repeat his mechanics, he cannot make small adjustments as well. One thing that really does seem to help is to work at reducing the delivery time after the leg reaches it's peak. This reduces fluctuations in the delivery and improves consistency.
RobVRobV100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by hsballcoach:
CADad,
I agree that mechanics conversations are like discussing politics. My best advice for you is to make sure that his mechanics are simple and repeatable over and over. If he cannot consistently repeat his mechanics, he cannot make small adjustments as well. One thing that really does seem to help is to work at reducing the delivery time after the leg reaches it's peak. This reduces fluctuations in the delivery and improves consistency.


I agree. This is good advice.

Usually when a player is too slow to the plate, they give their body lot's of time (relatively speaking) to create "slop" to fill in that time. This almost always causes problems (especially with repeatability and command issues).

Technically when a player is tense and/or muscling the ball, it does effect their mechanics (at least the way I see it - on a very small, almost imperceptible scale), and ultimately causes velocity issues.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
That's what we worked on in the fall and winter. It seemed to help and when he got the low velocities at the college camp in December you could see from their video he wasn't doing that. You can pretty much tell by the position of the arm at initial full foot plant. In his case, the less external rotation at that point the higher the velocity.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Deja Vu all over again. Last Sunday consistently 85, topped at 88. 83 min. This Sunday topped at 84, mostly 81-82 a few down at 80. Of course an intense two hour workout on Saturday might have had something to do with it. Most of the workout was legs but there were a few overhead sets that probably tired the shoulders out pretty good. Next week he doesn't do the workout on Saturday and we see if he gets back to where he was the week before.
NIC15NIC15100+ posts
How long does it take your son to get warm for the game? Does he have the same routine before he goes to the pen? This may be a factor. You need to make sure your son is putting in plenty of time before even picking up the ball to get loose. Stretch, jog, and I would make sure your son is using bands to stretch his arm before the game. Internal/External rotations, really getting his arm loose and increasing his ROM.
ygpbb321ygpbb3211,000+ posts
I think Rob V may be right. The Jugs and Stalker guns give different readings that are sometimes up to 5 mph difference. Since you son is in that range pretty much everytime, I would just say it may be a combination of guns and maybe a tiny adjustment here or there. I wouldn't get caught up to much on the radar anyway. Fastball command is going to carry CAson alot further than velocity ever will.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
No daddy gun readings. Today was a bit interesting as I had a JUGS and Stalker side by side for a half dozen pitches on a kid throwing upper 70s. The readings were the same except one reading that was faster for the Stalker. Today was weak competition and he was generally throwing low 80s because he didn't need to throw any harder. He did throw 85 to a few batters and topped out at 86.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Maybe not so inconsistent. This weekend an easy 83-85 on the Stalker, with 85 pretty consistently when he knew it was his last inning of work. We're looking for a 1 to 2 mph increase over the summer followed by a lot of work on control in the late summer and fall to be able to lock in the working velocity at the higher level.
Last edited by CADad
N ncball100+ posts
A pitcher's body is constantly changing. While you may stop getting taller at an earlier age, your tendons and ligaments are maturing until about age 25. That's a key age for MLB teams to start extending pitch counts for their top prospects. Until then, bodies are in a state of flux and constant adjustment and their change of velocity will correspond accordingly. Hope that helps.
Last edited by ncball
D distrktFIVEMember
Not to be overly simplistic but:

a) his body is hardly stable, he is a teenager

b) I'd bet his mechanics are still somewhat variable

c) some of those times he is probably "trying to throw hard" as oppose to pitching (which may have positive or negative effects on his velocity) and

d) watch MLB guys throw, some days they are up 2 MPH sometimes they are down 2 MPH and their mechanics are way more honed in than a high schooler's.

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