infield fly hits 2nd and rolls in dugout untouched

For HS baseball they were correct, not they got it right for the right reason. Once it hits in fair deeper than first or third and then went out of play then it is two bases from TOP. I don't know for softball.

For the sake of this rule/call, I believe in softball, they play the triangle thingy.
IE a line from 1st, to 2nd, to 3rd.

The ball is fair when it hit 2nd base. A fair batted ball that leaves the field of play is two bases from TOP, score two runs. R1 to 3rd. batter out on the IFF.
Wow, where was everybody? Hope the umpire/s didn't add to this confusion by not signaling "fair".

Yeah it seems like the umpire backed into the correct call. I don't know why nobody was able to field the ball or prevent it from leaving the playing field, other than to say that the whole thing just sounded surreal.

So...you are saying that if the popup hit the pitching rubber and rolled foul...it would be a foul, correct?

But...if it hit 2nd and did the same thing it is NOT a foul?

I've never heard of the triangle or deeper than 1st/3rd rule. What rule # is that?

quote:

Originally posted by brookspw:
So...you are saying that if the popup hit the pitching rubber and rolled foul...it would be a foul, correct?

But...if it hit 2nd and did the same thing it is NOT a foul?

I've never heard of the triangle or deeper than 1st/3rd rule. What rule # is that?

The triangle thing is not in baseball.

OBR 2.0
A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight.

Rule 2.00 (Foul Ball) Comment: A batted ball not touched by a fielder, which hits the pitcher’s rubber and rebounds into foul territory, between home and first, or between home and third base is a foul ball.

Everyone is familiar with a fly ball or line dirve that hits fair down the left field line and then rolls foul is still a fair ball. As MST points out what very few people understand is that any ball that hits fair beyond the line extending from 1st base directly across the field to 3rd base gets the same treatment. The exception is a ball that hits the pitching rubber and then goes directly into foul territory on the home plate side of the 1st and 3rd. Of course any ball touched by the defense in fair territory is a fair ball.

This play happens so infrequently that it always causes confusion. When I used to drink beer I won a few rounds on this rule.

quote:

deeper than 1st/3rd rule. What rule # is that?

Fed Rule 2-5-1b

quote:

Originally posted by luv baseball:
Everyone is familiar with a fly ball or line dirve that hits fair down the left field line and then rolls foul is still a fair ball. As MST points out what very few people understand is that any ball that hits fair beyond the line extending from 1st base directly across the field to 3rd base gets the same treatment. The exception is a ball that hits the pitching rubber and then goes directly into foul territory on the home plate side of the 1st and 3rd.

It's not an exception. The rubber is not beyond the imaginary 1st to 3rd line.

Poorly worded. I was trying to hit the point the the rubber is not treated like a base so the ball hitting it does not mean fair ball automatically. It could go either way depending on how the ball bounces.

quote:

Poorly worded. I was trying to hit the point the the rubber is not treated like a base so the ball hitting it does not mean fair ball automatically. It could go either way depending on how the ball bounces.

Just like homeplate.

quote:

Originally posted by thecloser:
For the sake of this rule/call, I believe in softball, they play the triangle thingy.
IE a line from 1st, to 2nd, to 3rd.

I wonder what the age of the girls was? I suspect that they simply froze thinking the ball was dead once the Infield Fly was called. We actually had a coach on another team come out and argue with the umpire once after we advanced on the infield fly.

quote:

Originally posted by luv baseball:
Everyone is familiar with a fly ball or line dirve that hits fair down the left field line and then rolls foul is still a fair ball. As MST points out what very few people understand is that any ball that hits fair beyond the line extending from 1st base directly across the field to 3rd base gets the same treatment. The exception is a ball that hits the pitching rubber and then goes directly into foul territory on the home plate side of the 1st and 3rd. Of course any ball touched by the defense in fair territory is a fair ball.

This play happens so infrequently that it always causes confusion. When I used to drink beer I won a few rounds on this rule.

I'm just learning here...but I don't see anything in 2.0 that talks about a "line between extending from 1st to 3rd". All it says is "between 1st and 3rd" which appears to be anything in the infield SHORT of hitting the bases (as the rule specifies is a fair ball).

Thanks for the education.

quote:

Originally posted by brookspw:

I'm just learning here...but I don't see anything in 2.0 that talks about a "line between extending from 1st to 3rd". All it says is "between 1st and 3rd" which appears to be anything in the infield SHORT of hitting the bases (as the rule specifies is a fair ball).

Thanks for the education.

The line from 1B to 3B is for FED. In other codes, the ball has to pass between the front edge of 1B and 2B or 3B and 2B for a bounding ball. If it doesn't and goes into foul territory, the call is "foul ball".

Theoretically, for OBR, a ball could hit right in front of 2B and have enough back spin to go into foul territory untouched in front of 1B/3B. This would be a "foul ball" call.

The reason for the additional "pitching rubber" comment is b/c, generally, if a ball hits a foreign object to the ground, such as a glove or base other than HP, it is considered to be a "fair ball". But, this distinction states that even though the rubber is foreign to the ground, it is still a "foul ball" if the ball hits it and goes into foul territory before 1B/3B.

The chance of a batted ball hitting the pitching rubber and then going foul are slim. the rule is there in case it does. I have in my life seen a batted ball hit the first base bag just right and the ball then going in the air over the first base dugout for a ground rule double.

I did see a ball hit the rubber and go foul once. I agree that it is rare but it does happen.

I was at a field once where the pitching rubber had a LARGE hole in front of it - probably 2 to 3 inches deep.

Wouldn't you know it - twice in one game the ball was hit back up the middle, hit the exposed side of the pitching rubber and bounced foul. The first time the umps had to huddle - and then explain the rule to both managers. The second time we all just laughed.

The other one, not covered in the rule book, that I have seen is the ball hitting the front lip of one of those portable pitching mounds and then rolling foul. The ump ruled foul ball - which was the common sense ruling in my mind - but any thoughts on if he should have said nothing?

quote:

Originally posted by 08Dad:
The other one, not covered in the rule book, that I have seen is the ball hitting the front lip of one of those portable pitching mounds and then rolling foul. The ump ruled foul ball - which was the common sense ruling in my mind - but any thoughts on if he should have said nothing?

I believe it is covered by the rules. It didn't pass the front edge of a base and it wasn't touched by a player in fair territory. I have it ruled foul.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Umpire:


The reason for the additional "pitching rubber" comment is b/c, generally, if a ball hits a foreign object to the ground, such as a glove or base other than HP, it is considered to be a "fair ball". But, this distinction states that even though the rubber is foreign to the ground, it is still a "foul ball" if the ball hits it and goes into foul territory before 1B/3B.

The reason I said "not covered by the rule book" was actually this quote above. The pitching mound is not the rubber - and it could be regarded as a foreign object in that it is a chunk of plywood which has been placed on the field.

quote:

Originally posted by 08Dad:


The reason I said "not covered by the rule book" was actually this quote above. The pitching mound is not the rubber - and it could be regarded as a foreign object in that it is a chunk of plywood which has been placed on the field.

OK. Well, while I understand, I would be treating it as part of the "natural" ground for this purpose. And, generally, the foreign object belongs to a player but even that has its faults in logic.

Sometimes, attempts to simplify rules for understanding purposes, makes things more complicated.

I agree, treat it the same as the rubber. You might want to mention it in the groundrules since it is somewhat unique.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
I agree, treat it the same as the rubber. You might want to mention it in the groundrules since it is somewhat unique.

I agree. I just treat them as part of the field.

On a side note, I hate those things.

quote:

Originally posted by 08Dad:
The reason I said "not covered by the rule book" was actually this quote above. The pitching mound is not the rubber - and it could be regarded as a foreign object in that it is a chunk of plywood which has been placed on the field.

If that chunk of plywood is placed on the field by league or tournament officials and the players and coaches accept it as the mound, then CS and FP would dictate that it be treated as a mound...in other words, part of the field.

If you don't want it treated like a mound, don't use it as one.

quote:

Originally posted by Welpe:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
I agree, treat it the same as the rubber. You might want to mention it in the groundrules since it is somewhat unique.

I agree. I just treat them as part of the field.

On a side note, I hate those things.

I'm with you - I hate them and hope never to be near a field with one again... Having said that, it was a strange situation that happened years ago and this discussion reminded me of the situation.