Infield Fly question

I believe infield fly is for fair balls only. So, I believe it should have been ruled a foul ball.

YHF,

Quite a mystique seems to surround the infield fly rule, yet it is actually very simple. When an infield fly occurs, the batter is out. That's the only effect; no other rule is altered. The definition of fair/foul, the right of the runners to advance, the need to retouch if the ball is caught-- all these rules are the same as for any batted ball.

So when does an infield fly occur? Here's the NFHS rule (other rule sets are basically the same):
An infield fly is a fair fly (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, (rule does not preclude out-fielders from being allowed to attempt to make the catch) and provided the hit is made before two are out and at a time when first and second bases or all bases are occupied.

In your situation, it was a fly, but became foul, so it wasn't an infield fly. If the fly had become fair (most likely, because it was touched or settled over fair territory, although other criteria can be found in the definition of a fair ball), then it would be an infield fly.

There is one tricky aspect to the infield fly rule: how to handle umpire error--either failing to properly declare an infield fly, or declaring one when, for example, first base is open. NFHS requires the players to know the situation, and to ignore the umpire. OBR and NCAA, roughly speaking, require the umpire to play God and fairly fix the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
YHF,

Quite a mystique seems to surround the infield fly rule, yet it is actually very simple. When an infield fly occurs, the batter is out. That's the only effect; no other rule is altered. The definition of fair/foul, the right of the runners to advance, the need to retouch if the ball is caught-- all these rules are the same as for any batted ball.

That's pretty much what I said to the PU and then the FU. I don't generally argue much but couldn't see how it wasn't a foul ball. PU and FU finally conferred and still got it wrong. They seemed so sure it was the right call that I began to question whether or not I was correct, hence I posted the question last night. We ended up winning and it didn't have a big effect on the game so no big deal. Thanks.

As 3finger says, this is a majorly misunderstod rule. In your case the umpire should have said if fair, it would have answered his own question. It wasn't fair so it wasn't an IF. The other case that confuses people is the opposite of what happened to you, lands foul and goes fair. If it isn't touched in foul then it is an IF.

quote:

In your case the umpire should have said if fair, it would have answered his own question. It wasn't fair so it wasn't an IF.

Since MST and I both train umpires, I wanted to highlight this...and MST is right on the money with this.........if you train yourself as an umpire to say "infield fly IF FAIR!!" every time....then you know exactly what the ball is if it fails to become a fair fly..........and so does everyone else.....

quote:

Ball is spinning back toward fair territory and lands untouched about a foot fair, then spins back across the line into foul territory.

Maybe I am not picturing this properly. Explain please. BAll was fair when it hit the ground. It was FAIR. On infield fly rule, it is ruled when it hits the ground as fair or foul or maybe I am completely wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:
........if you train yourself as an umpire to say "infield fly IF FAIR!!" every time....then you know exactly what the ball is if it fails to become a fair fly..........and so does everyone else.....

Well, maybe except Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Connell:

quote:

Ball is spinning back toward fair territory and lands untouched about a foot fair, then spins back across the line into foul territory.

Maybe I am not picturing this properly. Explain please. BAll was fair when it hit the ground. It was FAIR. On infield fly rule, it is ruled when it hits the ground as fair or foul or maybe I am completely wrong.

It was fair, but it landed and rolled foul between either home and first or home and third...thus being a foul ball.

jeff,

Remember this ball never passes first or third base in fair territory.........

A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first
base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul
territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over
foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural
ground.

No, the ball's status was not yet determined when it hit the ground. Since it hit the ground prior to first or third base, the status is not determined until it settles or is touched.

The ball was foul.

quote:

Originally posted by INshocker:

It was fair, but it landed and rolled foul between either home and first or home and third...thus being a foul ball.

This is both dangerous and incorrect thinking. The ball was never fair. It's status was undetermined until it was determined foul.

I meant it landed in fair territory...it's the same as a bunt that you let roll foul. I didn't mean it as actually being fair...just that it landed in between the lines.