We talk a lot about pitching velocity here, but my kid is an Infielder.
What are the specific infield velocity numbers that college coaches are looking for out of a Third Base prospect?
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3 & 2:
Here's something from NCSA. The infield velocity is in this table among the different levels.
Most guys at D1 are 80+. There are of course exceptions, depending on other skills.
RoadRunner posted:Most guys at D1 are 80+. There are of course exceptions, depending on other skills.
I think infield velo plays a role but the bat is bigger. My son was throwing 87 across the infield Start of his sophomore year but would not have been recruited as a third baseman for a D1 college. Not fast enough, and not enough of an elite hitter.
3and2Fastball posted:We talk a lot about pitching velocity here, but my kid is an Infielder.
What are the specific infield velocity numbers that college coaches are looking for out of a Third Base prospect?
You have 10,000+ posts on this website and you are asking this question? Have you never looked for this information anywhere else online? Just curious, seems to me as much as you post that a basic measurable like IF velo would be something you would have known long ago.
GARYME - fair enough. Up until this past year my kid had always played 2B/LF. Throwing Velocity wasn't something we looked at as much as 60 time and Exit Velo. Since he got moved to 3B it is something we're more aware of. Also, trends in college Baseball are changing, was looking for up to date opinions, in case things have changed recently.
Point taken though!!!
To reiterate the HC conversation with us/son, "if you can hit we will find a place for you". Interesting to read what Ripkin Fan sent. In hindsight, after reading the "typical" characteristics, I am amazed at how his college career developed. Hard work and being a student of the game will work wonders.
TrustinHim,
The numbers on the NCSA website referenced above are hogwash. Sure, any kid that has a .600 slugging % is going to be looked at for a D1 school, but realistically, any kid with a .600 slugging % is playing against some weak-ass pitching. Sorry, I know very few kids, even kids who went D1 and some who were drafted in high rounds, who had those kind of numbers. If you can attain those kind of stats as a player (OB% .500. SLG % .600) you would have to be brain dead not to look at those kids, but once you see the competition they put those numbers up against, you likely will see them drop drastically against better arms.
baseballhs posted:RoadRunner posted:Most guys at D1 are 80+. There are of course exceptions, depending on other skills.
I think infield velo plays a role but the bat is bigger. My son was throwing 87 across the infield Start of his sophomore year but would not have been recruited as a third baseman for a D1 college. Not fast enough, and not enough of an elite hitter.
There's a lot of truth in that!
The trend I'm seeing, especially in the SEC, is not a lot of "true" 3B's are being recruited. They bring in 4 or 5 Shortstops who can flat out mash the ball & run 6.8 or much faster, and distribute them around the infield.
I'm also seeing lots of D1 Mid-Majors take a similar approach. Although, in my opinion, that approach might be backfiring at several Mid-Majors who seem to languish in the bottom half of their conferences, as they aren't generating enough offense. But guess what? None of those Coaches asked my opinion.
I think it remains true, a stereotypical corners guy needs to hit and hit for a ton of power.
I suppose then, my question should have been: if a Kid is a true corners guy who hits for bigtime power but doesn't have Shortstop speed, what kind of Throwing Velocity is needed to be considered a 3B instead of a 1B?
How hard he throws the ball from 3rd is likely in inverse proportion to how hard and how often he hits the ball.
I do think there is a movement for coaches to just get a bunch of lean, fast SS, types, and sprinkling them like fairy dust around the IF and OF. Has kind of a homogenizing effect on the rosters. I miss the days when fat guys who could tear the cover off the ball played the corners.
I don't see a problem with a guy throwing an actual 80 mph accurately across the IF in games (as opposed to throwing 80 mph one time in 10 in a Showcase when everything is perfect and the ball may or may not get to 1B). If the guy has OK range and decent speed (say 7-7.25), but can hit the ball for power and average...I'll take some of that. Can't all be a bunch of 6.6 Whippets beating out IF hits.
I mean, how many SS are there out there who can really hit?
3and2Fastball posted:GARYME - fair enough. Up until this past year my kid had always played 2B/LF. Throwing Velocity wasn't something we looked at as much as 60 time and Exit Velo. Since he got moved to 3B it is something we're more aware of. Also, trends in college Baseball are changing, was looking for up to date opinions, in case things have changed recently.
Point taken though!!!
I think ~85 range is around the benchmark. Obviously, the stronger the arm the better. Ideally, It’s also a middle of the order line up type of bat.
I don’t know if it’s a trend everywhere 3and2 but I have seen a couple of of examples in the SEC lately and their bat got them on the field.
It’s about total time to field the ball and get it to 1B. Most college coaches are looking for mid 80’s across the field, but occasionally they’ll see a guy throw low 80’s who’s so quick to the ball, and quick to release, it doesn’t matter. Top SS’s throw 88+. If they’re range is limited they move to 3B.
Guys like Baez and Machado throw 90+.
Son throws 90 and has top infield actions, primary SS, but has played 3B, and has fun playing 2B which requires more body control. During recruiting phase son’s bat was flat, so top D1’s he was looking at had zero interest, other D1’s were possibilities but son had zero interest in them, landed at high academic D3 where there was a mutual fit. HC wanted him to play SS, 3B and 2B this summer so he’ll offer flexibility.
His bat is solid again, so it will be interesting to see how he performs against D3 pitching. 😎
PlayWithEffort posted:3and2Fastball posted:GARYME - fair enough. Up until this past year my kid had always played 2B/LF. Throwing Velocity wasn't something we looked at as much as 60 time and Exit Velo. Since he got moved to 3B it is something we're more aware of. Also, trends in college Baseball are changing, was looking for up to date opinions, in case things have changed recently.
Point taken though!!!
I don’t know if it’s a trend everywhere 3and2 but I have seen a couple of of examples in the SEC lately and their bat got them on the field.
Your bat will get you on the field. Every. Where.
RoadRunner posted:PlayWithEffort posted:3and2Fastball posted:GARYME - fair enough. Up until this past year my kid had always played 2B/LF. Throwing Velocity wasn't something we looked at as much as 60 time and Exit Velo. Since he got moved to 3B it is something we're more aware of. Also, trends in college Baseball are changing, was looking for up to date opinions, in case things have changed recently.
Point taken though!!!
I don’t know if it’s a trend everywhere 3and2 but I have seen a couple of of examples in the SEC lately and their bat got them on the field.
Your bat will get you on the field. Every. Where.
If you hit..you will not sit.
Gov posted:It’s about total time to field the ball and get it to 1B. Most college coaches are looking for mid 80’s across the field, but occasionally they’ll see a guy throw low 80’s who’s so quick to the ball, and quick to release, it doesn’t matter. Top SS’s throw 88+. If they’re range is limited they move to 3B.
Guys like Baez and Machado throw 90+.
Son throws 90 and has top infield actions, primary SS, but has played 3B, and has fun playing 2B which requires more body control. During recruiting phase son’s bat was flat, so top D1’s he was looking at had zero interest, other D1’s were possibilities but son had zero interest in them, landed at high academic D3 where there was a mutual fit. HC wanted him to play SS, 3B and 2B this summer so he’ll offer flexibility.
His bat is solid again, so it will be interesting to see how he performs against D3 pitching. 😎
Being out West I don’t really get this choosing a high academic D3 over getting a partial baseball scholarship at a D1. We don't have D3s every other block like some areas in the East. The D3s that we do have are $50-$60,000 all in, just like the D1 private schools. And twice as much as the CA state schools. So why choose the D3? It seems every thread mentioning D3 always says “high academic.” They can’t all be high academic, can they? Or does that just mean small class sizes and a smaller, more close knit community?
MrMac posted:Gov posted:It’s about total time to field the ball and get it to 1B. Most college coaches are looking for mid 80’s across the field, but occasionally they’ll see a guy throw low 80’s who’s so quick to the ball, and quick to release, it doesn’t matter. Top SS’s throw 88+. If they’re range is limited they move to 3B.
Guys like Baez and Machado throw 90+.
Son throws 90 and has top infield actions, primary SS, but has played 3B, and has fun playing 2B which requires more body control. During recruiting phase son’s bat was flat, so top D1’s he was looking at had zero interest, other D1’s were possibilities but son had zero interest in them, landed at high academic D3 where there was a mutual fit. HC wanted him to play SS, 3B and 2B this summer so he’ll offer flexibility.
His bat is solid again, so it will be interesting to see how he performs against D3 pitching. 😎
Being out West I don’t really get this choosing a high academic D3 over getting a partial baseball scholarship at a D1. We don't have D3s every other block like some areas in the East. The D3s that we do have are $50-$60,000 all in, just like the D1 private schools. And twice as much as the CA state schools. So why choose the D3? It seems every thread mentioning D3 always says “high academic.” They can’t all be high academic, can they? Or does that just mean small class sizes and a smaller, more close knit community?
You absolutely bring up a great point, MrMac, not all D3s are high academic. In California, true D3 HA schools are Cal Tech, Claremont McKenna, Pomona-Pitzer and maybe Occidental. I really don't know why people assume all D3 schools are HA, but that seems to be the general impression you get from folks on this board. They never mention what school their kid decided to go to, just a high academic D3.
Regarding choosing a D3 with absolutely no athletic aid over a D1 with partial scholarship, that is a matter of perspective and finances. Maybe the academic/financial need grant $$$ at the D3 makes it an attractive choice if the school has a good/great reputation. Maybe the parent/player feel they will be better served with that educational experience vice the D1 experience. I don't know if Gov's son got any D1 offers at the schools he wanted to (seems like he was targeting HA D1 such as Ivy/Patriot League), but regardless he made his choice based on their personal set of criteria. Some D3 schools have great facilities, some not so much. Same with all levels of play. Siena, for instance, looks like a high school field, no real stadium. I don't know what their training facilities are like. Some kids want large schools, some small. So much to weigh...
MrMac posted:Gov posted:It’s about total time to field the ball and get it to 1B. Most college coaches are looking for mid 80’s across the field, but occasionally they’ll see a guy throw low 80’s who’s so quick to the ball, and quick to release, it doesn’t matter. Top SS’s throw 88+. If they’re range is limited they move to 3B.
Guys like Baez and Machado throw 90+.
Son throws 90 and has top infield actions, primary SS, but has played 3B, and has fun playing 2B which requires more body control. During recruiting phase son’s bat was flat, so top D1’s he was looking at had zero interest, other D1’s were possibilities but son had zero interest in them, landed at high academic D3 where there was a mutual fit. HC wanted him to play SS, 3B and 2B this summer so he’ll offer flexibility.
His bat is solid again, so it will be interesting to see how he performs against D3 pitching. 😎
Being out West I don’t really get this choosing a high academic D3 over getting a partial baseball scholarship at a D1. We don't have D3s every other block like some areas in the East. The D3s that we do have are $50-$60,000 all in, just like the D1 private schools. And twice as much as the CA state schools. So why choose the D3? It seems every thread mentioning D3 always says “high academic.” They can’t all be high academic, can they? Or does that just mean small class sizes and a smaller, more close knit community?
If your kid can get a partial scholarship to a D1 that offers a solid education, and get on the field, go for it. If not, D3 could be a better alternative. Of course not all D3s are high academic, but many are. And if he's a very good ball player he could use baseball to get into a better school than he could on his own (think Tufts, Johns Hopkins, Trinity, etc). Look beyond the west coast - what's wrong with a kid experiencing a different part of the country for his 4 years at college.
I think that hits the nail on the head, I would imagine a majority of parents steer their kids (if they have this dilemma of D1 vs D3) toward the school that they are going to a) received the best education and b) have a reasonable chance of contributing to the squad.
Essentially, if you want to keep the dream of playing professionally alive and you aren't a draft prospect out of high school, aim for D1 or JUCO with a big-time program and chance to get drafted or transfer to D1 out of it. If your goal is education, go to college period and if you can play baseball, do it.
Anecdotal evidence for you.
From 2007-2016 draft, a total of 13,623 players were drafted. Of those, the breakdown for where they came from was: NCAA D1 6,320, High School 4,284, NCAA D2 768, NAIA 385, NCAA D3 171, JUCO 1,635. About 60 players over that time were drafted out of with unattributed baseball programs.
Just my opinion, of course, but that is how I would advise my kid: Want to keep the dream alive? Shoot for D1.
RoadRunner posted:PlayWithEffort posted:3and2Fastball posted:GARYME - fair enough. Up until this past year my kid had always played 2B/LF. Throwing Velocity wasn't something we looked at as much as 60 time and Exit Velo. Since he got moved to 3B it is something we're more aware of. Also, trends in college Baseball are changing, was looking for up to date opinions, in case things have changed recently.
Point taken though!!!
I don’t know if it’s a trend everywhere 3and2 but I have seen a couple of of examples in the SEC lately and their bat got them on the field.
Your bat will get you on the field. Every. Where.
I think there is a lot of truth in that, but first you have to get your foot in the door, and measureables are going to be the "gatekeepers" to get you there.
It would take a once in a generation phenomenal bat to overcome a 70 mph infield velocity and 8.7 60 time and still get recruited to a Power 5, I'd think. There are just too many other kids who are great hitters who have the measureables recruiters look for.
Yes I suppose the fictional prospect I outlined above could go to a JUCO, hit .375 with a .700 SLG PCT and get recruited, but I think it is more realistic to strive towards the measureables they are looking for...
Smitty28 posted:MrMac posted:Gov posted:It’s about total time to field the ball and get it to 1B. Most college coaches are looking for mid 80’s across the field, but occasionally they’ll see a guy throw low 80’s who’s so quick to the ball, and quick to release, it doesn’t matter. Top SS’s throw 88+. If they’re range is limited they move to 3B.
Guys like Baez and Machado throw 90+.
Son throws 90 and has top infield actions, primary SS, but has played 3B, and has fun playing 2B which requires more body control. During recruiting phase son’s bat was flat, so top D1’s he was looking at had zero interest, other D1’s were possibilities but son had zero interest in them, landed at high academic D3 where there was a mutual fit. HC wanted him to play SS, 3B and 2B this summer so he’ll offer flexibility.
His bat is solid again, so it will be interesting to see how he performs against D3 pitching. 😎
Being out West I don’t really get this choosing a high academic D3 over getting a partial baseball scholarship at a D1. We don't have D3s every other block like some areas in the East. The D3s that we do have are $50-$60,000 all in, just like the D1 private schools. And twice as much as the CA state schools. So why choose the D3? It seems every thread mentioning D3 always says “high academic.” They can’t all be high academic, can they? Or does that just mean small class sizes and a smaller, more close knit community?
If your kid can get a partial scholarship to a D1 that offers a solid education, and get on the field, go for it. If not, D3 could be a better alternative. Of course not all D3s are high academic, but many are. And if he's a very good ball player he could use baseball to get into a better school than he could on his own (think Tufts, Johns Hopkins, Trinity, etc). Look beyond the west coast - what's wrong with a kid experiencing a different part of the country for his 4 years at college.
It sounds like my son could be the twin of GOV's. They seem very similar.
In CA, the schools probably considered non HA are: La Verne, Redlands, Cal Lu and prob. Chapman. Probably more, but those are just off the top of my head. Nothing wrong with those schools but as mentioned they are not CalTech, CMS, Pomona or Oxy. Having said that though, those schools are still no cake walk to get into.
A partial D1 scholarship (25%) could end up being the same as your demonstrated financial need at one of the top D3's...provided you have the grades to get in. The book price on those HA D3's is 50ish/year...however, depending on your financial situation thats not what you pay. In our case with the demonstrated financial need plus academic money he's getting the cost is basically the same as a state school. So in our case thats why the HA D3 makes sense. He's not a top flight D1 guy and he can go to a very well regarded academic school and play and be an impact player.
Also, your baseball skill can only get you so far at a HA D3. For instance, my son talked a lot with Johns Hopkins...they really, really liked him. However, his SAT is too low for them. Bare minimum they take is 1400 SAT. Doesn't matter if you are Manny Machado, no 1400 and you're not getting in. In fact the incoming class right now (baseball only) avg SAT is 1480. Thats some crazy stuff. Smart and they can play some good ball.
MrMac posted:Gov posted:It’s about total time to field the ball and get it to 1B. Most college coaches are looking for mid 80’s across the field, but occasionally they’ll see a guy throw low 80’s who’s so quick to the ball, and quick to release, it doesn’t matter. Top SS’s throw 88+. If they’re range is limited they move to 3B.
Guys like Baez and Machado throw 90+.
Son throws 90 and has top infield actions, primary SS, but has played 3B, and has fun playing 2B which requires more body control. During recruiting phase son’s bat was flat, so top D1’s he was looking at had zero interest, other D1’s were possibilities but son had zero interest in them, landed at high academic D3 where there was a mutual fit. HC wanted him to play SS, 3B and 2B this summer so he’ll offer flexibility.
His bat is solid again, so it will be interesting to see how he performs against D3 pitching. 😎
Being out West I don’t really get this choosing a high academic D3 over getting a partial baseball scholarship at a D1. We don't have D3s every other block like some areas in the East. The D3s that we do have are $50-$60,000 all in, just like the D1 private schools. And twice as much as the CA state schools. So why choose the D3? It seems every thread mentioning D3 always says “high academic.” They can’t all be high academic, can they? Or does that just mean small class sizes and a smaller, more close knit community?
There are far more non HA D3’s than HA D3’s in the east. You don’t hear about most of them. The states are smaller. There are a lot of LocalTown State D3’s. Massachusetts has an entire conference if them by themselves ... North Adams State, Framingham State, etc.. Then there’s all the UMass’ other than the main campus in the D3 Little East. Almost anyone can get into these schools academically.
57special posted:How hard he throws the ball from 3rd is likely in inverse proportion to how hard and how often he hits the ball.
I do think there is a movement for coaches to just get a bunch of lean, fast SS, types, and sprinkling them like fairy dust around the IF and OF. Has kind of a homogenizing effect on the rosters. I miss the days when fat guys who could tear the cover off the ball played the corners.
I don't see a problem with a guy throwing an actual 80 mph accurately across the IF in games (as opposed to throwing 80 mph one time in 10 in a Showcase when everything is perfect and the ball may or may not get to 1B). If the guy has OK range and decent speed (say 7-7.25), but can hit the ball for power and average...I'll take some of that. Can't all be a bunch of 6.6 Whippets beating out IF hits.
I mean, how many SS are there out there who can really hit?
In high school typically all the best hitters are shortstops and center fielders. At the next level they may not be fast enough to play those positions. They get moved to the corners. So, most shortstops at the level they are being recruited from can really hit.
3and2Fastball posted:RoadRunner posted:PlayWithEffort posted:3and2Fastball posted:GARYME - fair enough. Up until this past year my kid had always played 2B/LF. Throwing Velocity wasn't something we looked at as much as 60 time and Exit Velo. Since he got moved to 3B it is something we're more aware of. Also, trends in college Baseball are changing, was looking for up to date opinions, in case things have changed recently.
Point taken though!!!
I don’t know if it’s a trend everywhere 3and2 but I have seen a couple of of examples in the SEC lately and their bat got them on the field.
Your bat will get you on the field. Every. Where.
I think there is a lot of truth in that, but first you have to get your foot in the door, and measureables are going to be the "gatekeepers" to get you there.
It would take a once in a generation phenomenal bat to overcome a 70 mph infield velocity and 8.7 60 time and still get recruited to a Power 5, I'd think. There are just too many other kids who are great hitters who have the measureables recruiters look for.
Yes I suppose the fictional prospect I outlined above could go to a JUCO, hit .375 with a .700 SLG PCT and get recruited, but I think it is more realistic to strive towards the measureables they are looking for...
My point is the top 9 hitters (plus pitcher), will be playing. Once you make the 35 man roster, focus on being one of the top 9 hitters. Arm strength can help determine position, once you are one of the 9.