Input requested: joining a 15u team (long)

Just my $.02.  How does your kid feel?  My kid is half Jewish.  We want him to go to an excellent catholic HS. He has gone to events but is very uncomfortable about the overt religion.  If your boy is uncomfortable it may make for a long summer.  

Well if it makes you feel better I'm Christian and never liked mixing religion with baseball.  

I don't believe God cares about baseball or any sport, especially it is played on Sunday. 

I don't believe in making scenes in sports like some do by pointing to the sky after a great play or win nor by kneeling or making the sign of the cross during a game. 

Having said I told my son he will be in situations where the team says a prayer before a game (or after a game).  I just told him to bow his head with everyone else and think sweet thoughts of chocolate. 

In your case you know what you are getting into so if you decide for you son to participate don't complain.  

Is this the only good team around he can play on?

there are Jewish kids who go to our local Catholic private schools.there are a lot of relig based colleges. If they were the only ones interested in son would he not go there and play? 

just curious did the 175 players trying out for this team pay to try out?  Never had a program here that had so many kids trying out for 1-2 teams. 

I wouldn't worry so much about labeling experiences, non-spectular, very high level, just find a team where you like coaches, way they run tryouts, etc.

opportunities will come as son is seen. 

Kind of a tough choice I guess. If it's the ideal situation in strictly baseball terms, then probably just comes down to whether or not bowing his head before and after games is acceptable to you or not. I'm not intending to be glib in saying that. It's just a personal decision that I think only you as a family can make. I would definitely raise the question with the coaches as to how your son might be viewed by the team. Their response might tell you a lot. If your sense is that they have some issue with your family heritage, then would think you'd want to steer clear of them for numerous reasons. I think that would be an extremely rare situation for a team/coach to operate with any such bias. But if they did, you might point out to them that the guy they're praying to was also Jewish.

 

I'm no theologian, but I believe strongly that all religions look favorably on left handed hitting catchers with pop!

There needs to be a discussion with the coaching staff. It needs to be asked if when the team prays may your son take a pass as long as he's still, siilent and respectful.

 

You might also want to have it defined what they mean by a Christian team. If it's a team prayer before the game where your son doesn't have to say the words and the rest is all behavioral and community I wouldn't see a problem. If they pray between every inning that could get tedious for someone not accustomed to doing so.

 

I was in a situation as a coach where a head coach tried to bring Jesus into the dugout on a community funded team. He kicked the Jewish players and me out of the dugout when I told them they didnt have to participate  Everyone needs to be aware of the ground rules when religion is involved.

Thanks for the input so far. A few clarifications. There is simply no way to doubt that teams, players, and parents in the program are expected to participate actively in the major religious component of the team. That is based on past experiences playing their team, coaches that have played against them, and most definitely their website. The program director was very prompt, polite, and addressed all of my questions. But what is he going to do: rescind the offer based on religion? Of course not. It is our decision.

 

As for the showcase team, there were about 175 players, including maybe 50 returning players for a total of 6 (I believe) 15u and 16u teams. And that was their second tryout. Very well attended by almost universally high-level (or better) players. It was almost surreal.

 

Anyhow, if the program was secular we'd probably have already paid the deposit and be looking forward to beginning in the program. Because HS baseball tryouts start in 3 weeks, if we take a pass on this opportunity, we won't have any more until mid-way through the season when teams are trying to complete their roster.

Trying to think out of the box:  How about your son plays on the team, with his attitude being that of experiencing and enjoying a different culture?

 

I concede, perhaps it's easier said than done, but just throwing it out there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What part of the country do you live?Where I live IMO they could let you play for free While giving the parents gass money and the turnout would be very,very low with a Dec. tryout.I would also be worried with the caliber of any team still adding players in Jan. My guy is considered by others (at least the 15-20 callers in Aug.) in my area to be a real steel if you can get him for a tryout.Our travel coach pulls every one together after last game to briefly let everyone know generally when tryouts will be.He also tells us to go to other tryouts if for no other reason than to see how other are.You will never know if theres a better fit if your not looking.I also think our/and HC would not like it if his players were trying out for another team in dec. So I guess with the fairly large turnout you had things must be different where you live.Is this a first year team?Is it not a known variable on the promoting of Christianity?Our family never attends church.If we did I believe in my heart I probably would have a problem with the sunday thing.But who knows.Before Is all the kids religious?Unless this is a first year operation?(Which if it is with that many kids I would shy away)If not is how they operate a well kept secret?If not I would have to wonder why the tryout at all? Theres no way I would let/take any of my children to try out for something that if he/she made it that there would have to be some big family discussion to even participate because of known differences.One of my kids made a big time travel team(first year.one team)After he made the team and was filled in on the details there was no way he could join.(it wasn't a religious thing)If whats going on there(and it sounds like its not first year)I really wonder why you guys went.Did you think your son would not make the team?Did you guys just want to see how he stacked up?I would like to ask more but I guess I just don't get it.

If a kid is forced to participate in a religion that conflicts with his that's not enjoying a different culture. There needs to be conversation on whether the environment will allow for exceptions to the norm. I went to a private school for a year where I was required to attend church five days per week. Attendance was mandatory. Bowing my head and praying was not required. I was only required to sit quietly and respectfully. It wasn't a proble!m.

IMO Your parents sending a kid to a place where they feel the child has a shot at getting the very best education.Is not the same as trying out for something the family/child might not be very comfortable with.getting a shot at the best education in the area is not the same league as playing baseball.Or am I not looking at things correctly?I just think the school analogy is not the same.Of course it could just be me.

This sounds like a bad idea. A previous poster mentioned that if it was for a better education, maybe.  However, I have always had a problem with mixing religion and sports.  Talk about to emotionally charged things.  It just seems to me there would be too many parent issues, and the possible controversies for an outsider could be a detriment to your child, i.e. son being discriminated against because he doesn't share the same beliefs.  He could be left out of the crowd, gossiped about, poked fun of, and the coach could keep him on the bench because of the religious differences.  Bad idea IMO.  

 

I firmly believe God doesn't care about sports, and. My son would not participate.  Too many other opportunities.

Where we're at even nominally secular teams often have a relatively big religious influences (or the athletes are fairly openly religious, at least), and there are plenty of overtly religious organizations. FCA is very popular, for instance. My impression has been that non-Christian athletes mostly just go with the flow, though I suppose they probably avoid the distinctly religious-based organizations, which is generally not a problem given the number of alternatives around here.

 

My general impression is that there is a lot of predominantly Christian religion in a lot of clubhouses at all levels, and non-Christian athletes sometimes will have to deal with discrimination of one kind or another due to it. For one tangential example, see the Chris Kluwe situation in MN.

 

I'm not sure it's fundamentally different in athletics than it is in other aspects of life for a lot of people.

My son just started playing for a team similar to the one you mentioned. Coach is very upfront. All players will participate and if the player doesn't want to the player is welcome to leave. He will tell you flat out it's his team, his business, and he won't change or compromise that. The only family that made the team that had a problem with it. Spoke with him and they both agreed the kid would be happier playing somewhere else. The coach then took out his phone and within a few calls found that family a new team. We have one Jewish family on the team and they have been there for years. One family that is openly not religious. I haven't seen any discrimination toward any of them but it's only been two months.

So far all I have seen is basically prayer before and after practices. So I don't know how much religious participation is going to be involved. Personally I have no problem with it but it's my religion so I have no idea what I would decide if it wasn't.

If he doesn't want to say a prayer before a game, then he could have problem going to relig college as they require stu to take religion classes and sometimes mandatory chapel. That's a bigger commitment than a prayer during a few Summer games.

You make a good point, but I think you are minimizing the the situation. It is going to be more than a few prayers during the summer...

I would be very careful falling for the "we're a feeder team" statement.  The team the OP is considering is no more a feeder team than any other travel team in the region.  Also, the larger program that the OP speaks of  fields 4 teams in descending level of talent at a given age level. So, there is work to be done if a player didn't get an invite....and plenty of very good players do not get an invite.  My recommendation would be to find a team the player will be comfortable playing for, let him have fun, and work on his game.  Life doesn't end at "almost 15" baseball-wise.  I can't help but bristle at the tendency to want to rush everything.   Slow down.  Find a team that fits, enjoy the season, and then go for it again next year!

Thanks to all for your input, and for some very helpful private messages. After much discussion with my son, wife, and a few folks who know my son and his baseball aspirations, we are going to take a pass on the opportunity.

I'm with NoVA, the OP states that this program is a "feeder" to the elite program....taking the religious aspect out of the equation, playing a for a feeder team to another travel program does not sound like a program that offers much in the way of exposure or development....save your money and play for a local pony/ripken, little league..they seem to be just as much a feeder for travel ball teams as this program sounds

I never bought into the "Feeder Team" concept. Each year the Top team should take the best players available. The only advantage being on a "Feeder" team would be that all else being equal, they may take the "Feeder" team player over a similarly talented unknown player. 

All a moot point now. In the end, it was not that hard of a decision, though the feeder team "fallacy" did register with me (I was always skeptical). But thanks again for input. Thread: die!

This past fall my son played on a team that was christian based.  They were very up front about there mission on their website.  However, I am not a christian and should have asked a few questions before committing to the team.  One thing I did not agree with was that they required each kid to take turns saying a prayer before or after each game.  Since my son was not christian and was not familiar with saying a prayer, he was very uncomfortable praying to a diety that we did not believe in. Several players started taking upon themselves to try and introduce prayer and bible into his life. I pulled him from the team, but wish I had asked more questions before fully committing.

 

Wow my son played one yr for a Christian based team and it was nothing like that. They did one prayer before each game Coach lead. There was a lot of talk about character, and being there as teammates for each other. Great group of boys, I couldn't even tell you the relig affil. Of each player. Parents never discussed it.

There was talk about a possible mission trip-play baseball and community service in Dominican, but that never happened. Actually that would have been fun.