Instant Messenger

ORmom,
I am going to put my two cents in , some may not like it but it is just my 2 cents.

I would not be happy if I knew my son was instant messaging with a coach for over an hour. It just doesn't seem professional. I can understand short text messages, emails, but not in an im for over an hour. How did he get his screen name?

Seems to me that coaches nowadays are using technology to narrow down their choices, win over recruits by becoming their best friends. There still is a certain decorum that we and my son would expect from his future coach.

Don't get me wrong, son emailed his coach back and forth. But I know that there was a certain professionalism that existed and still does today, even with them being friends.

Maybe I am just still a bit old fashioned.

Mad at who? Your son or the coach? I admit it felt like cheating or rather finding a loophole maybe. Like I said, the program has managed to snag alot of local boys and I wondered how. If this is how they recruit, it does make an impression on the boys. My son didn't see anything wrong with it-he thought it was "cool."
This is all new and a bit overwhelming and it's difficult when it first happens to decide how we feel about everything. I was just surprised that they actually- or rather that some coaches
IM kids. Like I said it made a favorable impression with my son-I can assure you he wasn't going to possibly make a coach mad by saying "later" to him.
TPM-I've got alot of respect for your opinions and I guess that's why I'm a little bothered that I feel like I'm getting my hand slapped.

Whether you agree or disagree with coaches using technology in this manner, it has to fascinate you. It does me anyway. We talked about text messaging being used recently. When my now JUCO son was being recruited, he never received any IMs or text messages. I'm very curious to watch the process over this coming year and see how that will change for him.

I don't think that IMing or text messaging is something that a huge number of coaches are going to do in their recruiting. However, is it a savy thing to do? I think most would probably say yes. It certainly shows creative thinking which I always respect. Is it intrusive or going over the line?

If I can add a short to cents....don't pick a school because of the asistant coaches. Last summer was amusing at how mant guys changed hats week to week..

Ormom,
I can understand where TPM is coming from and you have to appreciate her straightforwardness on this matter. She understood she was about to say something that could be taken wrong but she decided to post another side as she sees it. We all need to look at both sides. I'm going to step on some toes here. While my son never received any IMs or emails from coaches during his recruitment I don’t think the actual IM or email is the real issue here. I think to fully understand this aspect of recruiting; we have to understand why restrictions are put on recruiting by the NCAA. The NCAA has restrictions to protect the student athlete from undue pressure during the time he is trying to decide what is in HIS best interest. Coaches are methodical and calculated in their approach, while the student athlete is very emotional and vulnerable during this time. I think we will all agree our sons need to make their decision based on several different aspects of a college and what is in their best interest. I would think a coach’s ability to establish a cyber friendship with a recruit is unimportant (to the recruit) in the recruiting cycle. I basically see it as a cheap shot by coaches. I’m not saying this cyber union between your son and the coach is inherently wrong; but it sure allows a coach an additional opportunity to modify your son’s priorities and convince him to see things his way. The Instant Messaging coach is just starting to make an appearance on the recruiting scene and rather than providing additional opportunities for the student athlete, this is just another recruiting tool used for the coach’s benefit. These coaches don’t really IM as a way of life but they know these boys do it so they go for their weakness. These boys think they’re cool. These are the same people that would give away SUV’s if they could. When the NCAA figures all this out, you can expect restrictions to be implemented (as they should) to protect the student athlete.
Fungo

ORmom,
Sorry if you feel that your hand was being slapped, but I did say it was just my 2 cents worth. Nothing to do with cheating or loopholes, the NCAA will figure that out soon enough. Sorry if you missed the point.
I just can't imagine a coach spending an hour in instant message with a prospect other than to win him over thinking the whole thing was just too cool to talk to a coach via IM and win over his friendship. Yes, that is what is done during the recruiting process, trying to win over the recruit. But I would rather see them win over my son in other ways, like a visit, an offer, coming to watch son play. This is just my opinion.

Lafmom, kind of summed it up I suppose better than I, but I'll add a few, is it intrusive, cool, the new thing to do or just going over the line?

Coach Merc,
Of course they all change hats every week, that's the whole point. That's where the parent comes in, to explain what's going on, what to expect and after all of those hours of phone calls, text messaging, emails explain why no offer came.

Fungo thanks, I was posting while you were doing same, but you stated it better than I. I know the games coaches play, just want to make sure others do as well.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/5278294

When my son registered at a DI winter clinic, he was asked to provide his cell phone number and screen name......Recently there was an article about recruiting in girls basketball in the NJ paper. The parents turned off the computer since the player, their daughter, was constantly being IM's by coaches. She is only a sophomore.

Thanks for clarifying and I do get what ya'll are saying. It's hard as an adult to think rationally rather than emotionally when all this is starting to happen much less expecting a 16 year old to. I know it's not "cheating" as of yet but like I said before it does feel a bit like that. Does it make a prospective recruit feel "special"-you better believe it and its more personal than the usual form letters. Does it mean they are more interested in him than others? Probably not but it sure makes it feel that way and I know that's what you're saying gives the coach an unfair advantage over the player. I also realize I've got the responsibility to make my son understand this. Thanks again for all the help through this challenging (but exciting!) time.

This is the first time I've ever heard of IMing as a way of recruiting. It sounds kind of sketchy to me. I'd rather recieve a formal letter in the mail or an email from a valid email address then an IM. I mean thats just me. Face to face is obviously the best. I've only had the chance to talk to a few coaches face to face, and I assure that IS the best.

.

While I understand where the concern is coming from...I predict that soon whole recruitng classes will be complete on July 1, W/O any phone calls...

But in this case I will take the opposing view on this...so OR mom has a differing view...

IMO....

- It's not illegal...is it?

- If the NCAA doesn't like this they need to set new guidleines...they haven't

- Is it Intrusive or going over the line? Immoral is a value judgement in the eyes of the beholder...

- In the NCAA's current moral opinion this is not a cheap shot but a very creative and perfectly acceptable way to recruit...

- Parents are sometimes criticized by coaches and others for being TOO involved...

- Coaches are paid to win, and to win they need to get the best kids, in order to get the best kids they have to communicate, this is the way kids communicate now...This is creative recruting at it's best...do I want my son playing for an innovative coach?...

- What is the difference between email, IM, and Text?

- OK, I tell my kid no IM communication with coaches. Like it or not the coach is going to take this communication process to the next player. Kids are smart enough to understand this. Fine, if you have a Bluechip that everyone wants, you can play hard to get, but what if that school might have been my only or my BEST choice??...


- The whole showcase thing can feel VERY abusing and expensive and...but it is currently the game.

- This is how the game is apparently being played, and unless you have the talent to not to have to play the game....

- Yes, I too see the problem, but until the NCAA changes the rules, you have to expect coaches to use any communication method at their disposal...

OK, tear me to shreads...

44

OB44,
Nothing to rip you to shreds about. It's an allowable form of communication, I just feel somewhere line has to be drawn, which I am sure will be by the NCAA...eventually.
As Fungo states, it is the NCAA's job to protect players in the process. Too much pressure too soon, and I don't care if it is in a letter, im, text message, email. Coaches are finding ways to beat the system, just as agents get away with presenting themselves as advisors. It's a double edged sword.

Very glad my son is done and over with this process, because if he was receiving communication this way, I would say, I don't think so. If that meant coach was onto the next, so be it. We all choose to play it out differntly and as a parent, I would advise mine the way I felt was best for him.

Even talented players get played. It's a game and the coaches have the upper hand, no one is exempt.

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TPM...

Good answer. We disagree well!

I concur...mostly...

IMO....I don't blame the coaches they are only working within the rules that they are given, this is the way the game is currently played. In order to compete you play. While there are lines we all will not let our sons cross, I'm fond of communication.

I blame the NCAA. They know the rules are being legally bent through technology and yet they do nothing.

I concur, this process is only going to get more intense, more expensive, more emotional, and Much, much earlier...It was a great ride and I miss every minute but I'm glad we're through.

In the meantime...if this is the way that the game is played, then we play it by the current rules...real and quazi...

44

I am actually not surprised at all that coaches are using IM's as a way to communicate directly with prospects, and I am sure some are texting as well...

When I was in college, my primary form of communication was the dorm floor phone -- some several years later , I can phone, email, and/or text my son at just about any point in time during the day, and expect to hear back from him either immediately or within a relatively short time. I could argue that this is both a good and a bad thing (from both our perspectives). Not surprising that enterprising coaches are interested in having a similar type of access.

I personally think that trying to regulate this would be like trying to put air back in a bottle -- not easy to do and nor very useful in the long run. On a positive note, perhaps this might give kids a chance to learn a bit more about coaches and their personalities, and perhaps give them more of an opportunity to see if they will 'fit' in a particular program. We have all heard sad stories of talented players who were recruited to a program only to find out that they are not happy or for whatever reason aren't able to perform as expected. Perhaps a bit more information on both sides might have led to a better choice. JMHO

A good discussion.

I'd read about its use in football and basketball recruiting; so, I figured it was a matter of time for baseball.

It has such potential for intrusion that I agree with those here who have expressed the expectation that limits have to be right around the corner.

I see this as easily regulated as the cell phone or the landline. While the NCAA sets the guidelines, the regulation is basically “self” regulated through the compliance office and record keeping. There always will be infractions in the recruiting phase and everything will proceed along until one parent or one recruit stands up and blows the whistle and says Coach Smith text messaged me for one hour while I was a sophomore. Or better yet wait until the parent prints out an email or IM and sends it to the NCAA where the coach promised something he shouldn’t have. BAM! I look for IM and text messages to continue but it will fall under some type of regulation. As O44 states this is just another form of communications and if it better serves the coach it will continue. When this gets out of hand I’ll be able to market my “coach blocker” software.
Fungo

Fungo - I hope that my kiddo, for one has serious need for that software!!!

first, congats to Ormom's son on the attention he's getting

some good opinions offered here, so I'll be brief & get right to my concern

quote:

by OrMom: I can assure you he wasn't going to possibly make a coach mad by saying "later" to him

if this IS how the prospect feels from ONE IM session -
he sure as hell isn't going to say NO to him when it's time to commit
and the situation boils down to an adult emotionally conditioning a prospect for a future result -

that said, it does seem pretty cool,
however I would fix the unregulated part by setting down some session length & frequency guidlines with my son, then communicate them to the coach myself, informing him he'd be blocked if they were not followed

JMO


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Bee...

I am in the education camp as well...though I would be more liberal...

- I would hope that by 17 my son is idealistic enough to get excited AND cynical enough to not believe everything he hears...

- I also believe that our kids are more sophisticated than we often give them credit for...in this instance this is a good thing not a bad one...

- While I am realistic enough to believe that my son and I will not communicate fully on every issue, I am idealistic enough to believe that all aspects of recuiting communication will be discussed on both ends....mine and his...

- The whole process if monitored even a little is a great in home labratory for issues that my son will have to face outside on his own both now and beyond...

- While I cannot control what a coach will say to my son, either on the phone or IM, or email, or text message I CAN educate and condition his responses and his reactions and his actions if we have a solid relationship of trust and communication...

- While you often cannot control the outside world you can control your reaction to it...

44

The bottom line is most of us who have posted have been through the process, so we know the pressure and anxiety it CAN bring, without the use of text messaging and im's.
Some coaches spend a lot of time recruiting one player, they know they have the ability, they need to make sure that player can jell into the program, add to the team chemistry which is important in his recruiting philosophy. Some coaches don't care, you get a few phone calls, a visit an offer. Both player and coach need time to decide if the program is right for both of them. I am happy that for ORmom's son, he is geting attention,but as she posted, the school he never heard from is now on HIS list, because the coach spoke to him through an im for over an hour. This is not what should determine what you like and do not like about a program.
What it is doing is giving an edge to the coach, he controls the situation. He has sought out the BEST player and using technology at his advantage. The average player gets the disadvantage. I am all for advanced technology, but when it is abused, I don't like it. JMO.

Just curious... How can you be sure it is a coach through instant messanger? I think we all know of horror cases where children are lured into believing the person is someone other than who they really are. With e-mail, the extension will have the school's designation. With regular mail, we have the return envelope. I guess I am just a suspicious type... always worrying about the dangers associated with IMing with strangers.

However, maybe someone can enlighten me as to how you can ascertain (with certainty) a person's identify through the IM process...

.

IM? Lets take the next step...How do you know who is calling? How do you know who is texting?
When you fly a kid out on a recruting trip how do you know who picks him up? There are no dead solid guarantees in any case...

And I'll blatantly state the sexist viewpoint...If I had a girl being recuited my opinion might be entirely different...

44

IM though is more anonymous than any of the other forms of communication. With texting or calls, you have a voice and a number typically on the caller ID. Most coaches will give the recruit their cell number - they want the recruit to feel comfortable in calling them as well.

Like Mom says though with IM - you have no real way of identifying. I was remembering when my son was in HS - the boys would play pranks on one another by blocking their number (the caller) and pretend to be say the coach from Arizona, etc. With IM - those kinds of pranks as well as the dangerous scenarios Mom points out could easily increase. Good question mom!

Text messaging... there is a return number. Calling... well, I have caller ID.
Haven't faced a recruiting trip question yet... but can't imagine my husband and I wouldn't accompany him.

AND... I only have boys, but I am sure I am as cautious of their safety as any mother of girls!

FO, I agree with you
my response referenced OrMom's son being afraid of making coach mad by signing off

truth be known Momcpa is probably on the right track -

a few dozen student volunteers in the computer lab working the coach's lists for extra credit


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Just to clear up how this started. My son received a letter from the coach last week asking him to send his e-mail address and screen name through the coach's e-mail. The letter also gave my son the coach's screen name so he knew who it was. I also jokingly (sort of) had told my son it was a freshman player and that coaches probably made all the freshmen take turns sitting at the computer IMing players! Looking at the message it was pretty much a phone call written down. My son asking about the school, program, players (like I said several players from here), etc. The coach asking about my son-what does he throw, where he's been, etc. Nothing outrageous at all.

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ORmom...

All sounds very innocuous in this case, which is exactly what I would have expected, which is why I would have likley not been concerned...

and agree with all that coach creativity might reach new heights here...

It could indeed be student volunteers(particularly if it is Tennessee calling)...

And perhaps more likley, outsourced to India...If "Coach Bud" calls and he sounds like Deepak Chopra you'll have a clue...

44

Bee>,
FYI.
FO is Former Oberserver and OB44 is Observer44.
Keep buzzing !

ORmom,
Never assumed it was anything outrageous other than over an hour being a bit too much for a coach to go out of his way. I don't even IM friends for over an hour.
Your first post indicated all of the information came from PG profile, now a letter directly from the coach.
Regardless, it's an exciting time and best of luck to your son.
TPM

My first post said the information on his GPA came from the PG profile.

Despite my conservative make-up I may be in the other camp here. A coach that can communicate within the rules is a coach who is creative, and MAY be more in tune with todays youth. With the limited number of scholarships, a college has to make sure that they are getting what they want/need. Any time that you can get a player into a comfortable environment (IM) is time that you can really read the players personal side. At the same time a players family should also use this opportunity to put that coach on the hot seat and get involved in the IM. It becomes a mini-chatroom where questions bounce back and forth without those uncomfortable face-to-face issues that force many players and parents to back into their shell. Potentially I see this as a tool for both sides.

As far as security is concerned, coach verification should be established and the text messages should be saved on the players computer.

I see this as the tip of the iceberg and would not be surprised that voice recognition IM is the next issue. The old codgers who write the NCAA recruiting rules will have to hang up their rotary phone and get up to speed to factor in new technology issues. Until that time I would have to give a point to the coach who can establish these "alternative" modes of communication.

I guess I'll have to side with the "Pro IM" camp. My daughter is a recruit and has gotten many letters and phone calls from coaches. I would have to say though that if a coach were to IM her, I think she would be much more at ease in talking with them versus a 1/2 hour phone call. I think she would appreciate the IM more than any other communication.

Furthermore, I don't think it's immoral or cheating in any way. Recruiting is competitive and if it's allowable (so far) then kudos to the coach for thinking outside the box and getting to know the prospect at their level.

oops on the observer mix up, "FO" should have been "OFF" (O-Four-Four)


I agree it's a good new approach to communicate, and also realize that attention from various coaches is the goal of your "recruiting window"

but keep in mind that the NCAA's recruiting rules are in place to protect the prospect
so, if it catches on with other coaches and remains unlimited, it'll be interesting to hear some feedback from some exposed to unlimited communication from multiple coaches as the NLI date nears


.

Since my son is just a junior, I do not have the knowledge of the recruiting process that many of you have. My son has received numerous DI letters of interest and several e-mails, though. I am taking a keen interest in this subject because until this thread I didn't even think about the possibility of IMs.

What I do have some knowledge in is the IM area. A coach... a ball player... anyone can set up an IM. The person that sets up the IM can then give their password to anyone or, as I have seen before, it can be stolen. The conversations are not automatically recorded on the newer computers. They are like a video reel now... they come in and immediately go out. Unless your computer and the IM system is set to record the conversations, they will not be. I have seen more than one case where intelligent young women and men have been duped on the IM. As I have said before, it is probably because of my knowledge of the horrors that is making me question (or at least want to know more information on) this subject.

My concern is... and PLEASE I am only joining in the debate... and I am NOT judging anyone on their position... are IMs an effective tool for the coaches to use? Or, is it taking the place of the life lesson of learning to talk and communicate over the phone and in person? Is it something of the future or are we starting to cross some sort of line?

Please don't be too harsh on me... I am only wondering and I DO carry my feelings on my shoulder sometimes!

My son received/sent many emails this past recruiting season. We found it very useful when attempting to keep coaches up to date on changes in tournament games in which they were interested in seeing him play. I considered it tacky when a coach used ONLY email as a (cheap) means of communicating. My son didn't view it so harshly, but as I pointed out to him, if a coach took the time to write, make a personal phone call, or visit, it was more of an investment and perhaps meant he was "worth" more as a prospect. In regard to IM, my son was asked for his screen name, but stated he preferred email. No one was offended. Because of its real-time nature, IMing is more intrusive whereas emails (and phone calls) can be answered at will. One could argue that an IM could similarly be held off, but ask your teen how many buddies get PO'd when he leaves them hanging when he's clearly online. I think the intent of the NCAA regs is to help the athlete avoid intrusive recruiting, and I think eventually they will put a cap on IMs.

good points momandcpa.

quote:

The person that sets up the IM can then give their password to anyone or, as I have seen before, it can be stolen

Like anything that is password protected, it is as save as you want it to be. Yes, there are some "bad guys" out there but if you keep that password to yourself you are relativily save.

quote:

The conversations are not automatically recorded

You can always copy the conversation and store it in a wp doc

quote:

I have seen more than one case where intelligent young women and men have been duped on the IM.

You have to be smarter than the system, and set it up in a different medium before the im session.

quote:

is it taking the place of the life lesson of learning to talk and communicate over the phone and in person?

I'm sure the same issues were raised prior to the telephone coming into the picture. It's another tool. I use it with my son in college. If I see he's online, I'll pop up and say Hi, regardless if I have anything to say.

quote:

I think eventually they will put a cap on IMs.

I agree, but it could be used as a meaningful tool while it is allowed. Another way it could be used is communication between an existing player on the team and the prospect.

The only thing about copying the conversation is that your child has to decide to do that before he turns off the computer... And, that is probably a very good idea. I will go ahead NOW, on the chance that someone might IM him, and at least try to get him to save the conversation.

I IM my son at college as well... it is another way for he and I to stay in touch. I'm sure he can tell it's me (and not an imposter) by my usual, "AND... so... how are the grades?"

I would like to explain my initial post one more time.

Regardless of how I feel regarding coaches and recruits IM's, it wasn't the actually IM, but the fact that it was for over an hour, as stated by ORmom.