Interesting Numbers

Interesting read......

http://www.allsports.com/cgi-bin/showstory.cgi?story_id=32117

That article is right on. I wonder who has been preaching that over and over? "OH NO he's uninfomed, he doesn't know what he's talking about,etc."

Pitchers are not fit to pitch today because they believe the arm is the source of power and you should baby it, and save it for the game. Well there's all you're injuries.

Busta,

I would still say that you are NOT the most knowledgeable guy around, as far as pitching goes.....

I think there is some truth to the belief that pitchers today are coddled maybe too much. I think today's pitchers could log more innings but things have changed. Managers run a game completely different.

Easy Busta Easy....on the "all injuries" comment......You certainly do not have the experience to make an informed comment on that......

Busta, do you realize that there are people on this message board whom have forgotten more baseball than you will ever know.....

Just take it easy on all of the "this is the way it is" and "this is the ONLY way" attitude you display.

Busta is BORING!!

Sorry about that comment, that's JMO. In some cases it is different like overuse at a young age or throwing too many breaking balls. But I think and again IMO most of the injuries are related to coaches babying their pitchers, so they are not fit to pitch in a game throwing 100-120 pitches.

Today coaches have them throwing on flat ground, long toss,only throwing 30-40 pitches,while they should be throwing off the mound (60-70 pitches) working on there skill and being ready to go in the games.

quote:

Busta is BORING!!

Just cause I'm not into the popular thing I'm boring. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Bustamove:
Sorry about that comment, that's JMO. In some cases it is different like overuse at a young age or throwing too many breaking balls. But I think and again IMO most of the injuries are related to coaches babying their pitchers, so they are not fit to pitch in a game throwing 100-120 pitches.

Today coaches have them throwing on flat ground, long toss,only throwing 30-40 pitches,while they should be throwing off the mound (60-70 pitches) working on there skill and being ready to go in the games.

And you have come to this decision by playing or coaching....scratch that.......How many games have you seen in person at the High School level and above?

I simply do not think you have the experience (like myself and everyone else have been saying) to make that comment. Period.

Busta you should not believe everything you read (from publications on pitching).

quote:

I would still say that you are NOT the most knowledgeable guy around, as far as pitching goes.....

LOL and why would you say that? I thought everyone on this board thought I was the most knowledgeable guy around?

quote:

Originally posted by Bustamove:

quote:

I would still say that you are NOT the most knowledgeable guy around, as far as pitching goes.....

LOL and why would you say that? I thought everyone on this board thought I was the most knowledgeable guy around?

BEAUTIFUL...LOL....a sense of humor.....finally...LOL

quote:

And you have come to this decision by playing or coaching....scratch that.......How many games have you seen in person at the High School level and above?

I simply do not think you have the experience (like myself and everyone else have been saying) to make that comment. Period.

Busta you should not believe everything you read (from publications on pitching).

I have alot more experience then you guys think. I just don't go around showboating how much experience I have. (You guys have no clue how much I ACTUALLY have)Because I'm not going to share my personal life to a bunch of people on this board. I'm not here to get to know some of you, I'm here to EDUCATE.

quote:

BEAUTIFUL...LOL....a sense of humor.....finally...LOL

HAHA you caught it. I know people love me on this board. LOL

Busta....Busta....Busta,


Wow, you really do have aproblem dealing with reality here don't you.

I asked this of you in the other thread....do you bel;eive that a college coach with decades of experience and over 1000 wins just might hav emore knowledge than you on exactly how to tteach this game and the skills required to play it ?

That's not why you are boring. You are like the kid on the playground or the guy at the office who makes us cringe when you walk up. We know what you will say before you open your mouth to speak. You say the same thing all the time about every pitching related thread. That is boorish behavior and folks get turned off by it. Just because you are insistent doesn't mean you will change the minds of people. You must win hearts and souls first and then worry about being right.

quote:

asked this of you in the other thread....do you bel;eive that a college coach with decades of experience and over 1000 wins just might hav emore knowledge than you on exactly how to tteach this game and the skills required to play it ?

Did I ever say I did have more knowledge then whoever you're talking about? Maybe you need to read the article and take off you're colored glasses and see that pitchers today are not very good compared to pitchers 30-40 yrs ago.

quote:

That's not why you are boring. You are like the kid on the playground or the guy at the office who makes us cringe when you walk up. We know what you will say before you open your mouth to speak. You say the same thing all the time about every pitching related thread. That is boorish behavior and folks get turned off by it. Just because you are insistent doesn't mean you will change the minds of people. You must win hearts and souls first and then worry about being right.

As I've said before, I'm not here to win souls. And I don't know what you're talking about when you said I say the same thing over and over? SO what am I supposed to do just change my views on pitching? I don't care if people are turned off by me.

Certainly don't expect you to change your views. Reread the thread on "My Mechanics". You posted more than anyone - same thing over and over. Statement / denial / statement / denial. Repeat.

Not very good.....too many injuries....


Can you please find a new generality to use


On the contrary, you have claimed to have a lot of knowledge, but we found out you have zero real experience.

IF you are really serious about helping, go read the books written by John Winkin on coaching and teaching baseball.

He has been coaching baseball since the mid 50's, has taken teams to the college world series, put guys into all levels of pro ball
and has over 1000 wins.

He has actually done what you claim you want to do for over 50 yrs!

Before you ran off on your rant of how no one understands how to teach it right, read the books he has written. You may find that men like him really do understand the game and how to teach it correctly.

quote:

Not very good.....too many injuries....


Can you please find a new generality to use

Good comeback on that one. I used those words becuase that's what were talking about. Don't tell me which words to use.

quote:

On the contrary, you have claimed to have a lot of knowledge, but we found out you have zero real experience.

How do you know I have no real experience? Just because I don't brag about it to this board doesn't mean I don't.

quote:

Before you ran off on your rant of how no one understands how to teach it right, read the books he has written. You may find that men like him really do understand the game and how to teach it correctly.

He probably does know the game well, since he was teaching in the 50's when pitchers were dominating baseball.

quote:

SO what am I supposed to do just change my views on pitching?

your views????....what views.....????

Your full of vague innuendo and have no idea what teaching a skill to a player is really all about.

It is one thing to have a legitimate point about these things, but you throw out a comment and think its gospel.

You have claimed long toss and weighted balls are bad and the wrong way to go. You do not listen when all those around you are telling you that these things are only PART of a complete program. You act as though we want pitchers to throw 500 throws a day with weighted balls and then come back the next day and long toss for 4 hours.

You say throwing on a flat is bad, that pitchers should ALWAYS throw on a mound. Which mound?...in case you have not actually been out on field lately, very few places outside of college or pro ball actually have a legal mound.
Go look at the high school fields in your local area. I'll guarantee you you cant find 2 that are the same, let alone actually legal. Pitchers need to be able to adapt to the variations they will encounter. Heck, many HS fields do not have a bullpen area with a mound, so how do you propose that a pitcher get ready if there is no mound available for pre-game bullpen?

Your view on drills has been very clear, but you have never once explained exactly how you would teach and instill a skill if you are not using drills.

"
I have alot more experience then you guys think. I just don't go around showboating how much experience I have. (You guys have no clue how much I ACTUALLY have)Because I'm not going to share my personal life to a bunch of people on this board. I'm not here to get to know some of you, I'm here to EDUCATE.
"

I do not want to know ANYTHING about your personal life. You claimed to be an instructor, that is a profession. As such you better expect people to ask about your background, experience, credentials, references etc. If you are unwilling to provide that here, then how are you expecting to do what you claim you want to do.

Your background & expereinces are always relevant when you are talking about changing people's view or introducing a new idea.

You certainly are not showboating....lol

Your like that bad professor we all had in college, the guy who cant teach, but finds a way to get tenure and just hangs on.

quote:

I don't care if people are turned off by me.

Yet you state earlier Busta that you want to educate folks. The first requirement for someone to be receptive to your message is to be interested in what you have to say.

The second necessity is that you demonstrate knowledge for what you're trying to teach.

If you turn everyone off and you don't demonstrate that you're knowledgeable or have any credentials compared to some of our other posters...........

quote:

How do you know I have no real experience? Just because I don't brag about it to this board doesn't mean I don't.

HMMMMMMMMM.....


Remmeber this from the mechanics thread?

"
I have no experience, as I've said I am young. I have listened to Dick Mills, who's ideas are evidenced based and not belief based. There you happy.
"

These are your words, not mine. So either you lied, or you have no real teaching expereince.

Well I can see that I'm never going to change you people. So I'm just going to leave. See Ya.

Best of luck to ya Busta.

Let's do lunch sometime!

quote:

Originally posted by NHFundamentalsDad:

quote:

How do you know I have no real experience? Just because I don't brag about it to this board doesn't mean I don't.

HMMMMMMMMM.....

Busta, do you know the Train?

No, really. I haven't read to much of this thread but I can stick-up for Busta.

4 years ago I started reading Dick Mills' take on pitching. My boy was 11 yrs. Over the next 3 years we had regular sessions of bullbens and games, most bullbens were off a mound. We also worked in heavy long toss.

It got to the point that I had to take the bucket out in the outfield and drop the balls and have him throw them into me because I couldn't throw that far.

Over the last year I have left him in the care of his high school coach and select coach. But he has had no arm problems and can work like a horse. No curve ball until last year ( 14 yrs)!

Today he averages 82- 84 mph , high was 88 on a gun in this first HS outing as a freshman.

I plan to get him back into the long toss routine this week.

Most pitchers today are weak because they don't train their muscles to do the same work they will ask them to do from the mound.

JMHO
Remmeber this from the mechanics thread?

"
I have no experience, as I've said I am young. I have listened to Dick Mills, who's ideas are evidenced based and not belief based. There you happy.
"

These are your words, not mine. So either you lied, or you have no real teaching expereince.

MeatsDad,

Sounds like your son is off to great start in HS ball. Good Luck to him!

As far as busta goes, help me out here. You said your sticking up for him?

He has been stating all over the pitching forum that he does not believe in long toss.
Sounds to me like LT was certainly a part of your son's training.

Busta also does not beleive in using drills to engrain the various components of the pitching motion. Did your son do drills ?
Can you tell us what those drills were?

quote:

Originally posted by NHFundamentalsDad:
MeatsDad,

Sounds like your son is off to great start in HS ball. Good Luck to him!

As far as busta goes, help me out here. You said your sticking up for him?

He has been stating all over the pitching forum that he does not believe in long toss.
Sounds to me like LT was certainly a part of your son's training.

Busta also does not beleive in using drills to engrain the various components of the pitching motion. Did your son do drills ?
Can you tell us what those drills were?

NHF,

I hadn't read most of his posts, so I'm sorry if I didn't get that he didn't beleive in long toss.

I would attribute 90% of my sons above average velocity to long toss. A lot of long toss!!

As for drills, he didn't do a lot of those until this past year. Before that he did do some mirror work in-between starts to look at balance and timing the arm to be behind his leg and in-front of his body.

This year, his pitching coaches had him start each session with a simple short catch that extended slowly back to the mound to help work on location. His new pitching coach (he has only been once), is going to have him work with a ball with a rag attached that he has to extend out and hit a bucket with the rag as he goes through his motion. He wants him to become very linear to help him develop better location. With the better location he will then be able to start to use pitching patterns.

Danny is young but I think he knows what this guy is saying is very true.