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LOL! Sounds like a fun time!
I couldn't believe it when I read it that's hilarious I don't remember ever hearing about something like that happening before
Long time precedent on this. Teams know it leads to an ejection in both MLB and MiLB. It comes under inciting the crowd.
With great power comes great responsibility
Blue needs to take a chill pill
Holy **** this just made our local news
Blue needs to take a chill pill
Holy **** this just made our local news
quote:Blue needs to take a chill pill
Indeed....no sense of humor.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
Long time precedent on this. Teams know it leads to an ejection in both MLB and MiLB. It comes under inciting the crowd.
Two questions...
I understand the precedent, but is it universally enforced or do some guys let it slide?
What's your take on it, would it bother you or would you shrug it off?
I can't say with 100% certainty, but I believe it is nearly universally enforced by umpires who graduated from Pro School. I have not had it played at any of my games, however, I had an announcer, over the PA system, tell my partner he was "missing a good game."
I dumped him immediately.
At the professional level, announcers are considered home team personnel and are expected to act appropriately.
Personally, since there were only two umpires, I think this announcer erred in playing "Three" blind mice. He needs to be better prepared or learn to count.
I dumped him immediately.
At the professional level, announcers are considered home team personnel and are expected to act appropriately.
Personally, since there were only two umpires, I think this announcer erred in playing "Three" blind mice. He needs to be better prepared or learn to count.
I love the announcer's reaction.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
Long time precedent on this. Teams know it leads to an ejection in both MLB and MiLB. It comes under inciting the crowd.
Two questions...
I understand the precedent, but is it universally enforced or do some guys let it slide?
What's your take on it, would it bother you or would you shrug it off?
Good question CPLZ...especially considering the box score shows there wasn't much of a crowd to incite in the first place (996). Seems a warning to the home team to tell the PA to knock it off would have sufficed...but I guess if the umpire would have done that we wouldn't have had anything to chuckle about.
quote:Originally posted by jerseydad:quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
Long time precedent on this. Teams know it leads to an ejection in both MLB and MiLB. It comes under inciting the crowd.
Two questions...
I understand the precedent, but is it universally enforced or do some guys let it slide?
What's your take on it, would it bother you or would you shrug it off?
Good question CPLZ...especially considering the box score shows there wasn't much of a crowd to incite in the first place (996). Seems a warning to the home team to tell the PA to knock it off would have sufficed...but I guess if the umpire would have done that we wouldn't have had anything to chuckle about.
Would it have made a difference to you if the announcer, instead of playing the song, instead yelled over the PA system that the umpires were blind and screwed the call?
quote:Would it have made a difference to you if the announcer, instead of playing the song, instead yelled over the PA system that the umpires were blind and screwed the call?
I think that's quite a stretch. When I was working in pro baseball, they routinely played a clip of Homer Simpson saying "Boring!" after the pitcher would throw over to first multiple times or something. It's funny when that clip gets played, but it wouldn't have been very funny if the PA announcer had said it..
It's one of those calls where I think it makes the umpire look silly for ejecting the DJ and shutting everything down like that, but it's also one of those things where the DJ should know what line not to cross..
If it's "universally known" then I think it's interesting that the clip is on the computer in the ballpark in the first place...
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:quote:Would it have made a difference to you if the announcer, instead of playing the song, instead yelled over the PA system that the umpires were blind and screwed the call?
I think that's quite a stretch. When I was working in pro baseball, they routinely played a clip of Homer Simpson saying "Boring!" after the pitcher would throw over to first multiple times or something. It's funny when that clip gets played, but it wouldn't have been very funny if the PA announcer had said it..
It's one of those calls where I think it makes the umpire look silly for ejecting the DJ and shutting everything down like that, but it's also one of those things where the DJ should know what line not to cross..
If it's "universally known" then I think it's interesting that the clip is on the computer in the ballpark in the first place...
I simply asked if it would make a difference. Yes or no?
It's not a stretch. According to MLB both are actions that incite. I believe, however, they effect some people differently.
No telling how the clip became available. At the MiLB level the announcer may have brought it himself.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
Would it have made a difference to you if the announcer, instead of playing the song, instead yelled over the PA system that the umpires were blind and screwed the call?
Probably so, I would think a verbal announcement from a PA attacking an umpire would leave little room for leniency and should result with the hammer being thrown...a few bars of Three Blind Mice...not so much.
Low volume organ music would incite exactly what....a funeral or church service?
I personally know the umpire that made this ejection and can tell you he is a fine young umpire...he volunteers to be a clinican at our HS clinics...
He is the umpire you would want calling your games.... fair , profesional, hustles and he has the right to expect a FSL club to respect the rules
as Jimmy says this isnt without precedent and and ejection worthy in MiLB and MLB......
He is the umpire you would want calling your games.... fair , profesional, hustles and he has the right to expect a FSL club to respect the rules
as Jimmy says this isnt without precedent and and ejection worthy in MiLB and MLB......
The fans should have started singing the song...umpire could not do anything about that..I read several fans starting to announce the batters acting like the annoucer 
quote:Originally posted by dad43:
The fans should have started singing the song...umpire could not do anything about that..I read several fans starting to announce the batters acting like the annoucer
You just proved the point of why this is a rule violation.
Seems to me that the umpire violated the intern's right of free speech/expression!
Earlier incident not videotaped: There had been 998 fans just prior to the first pitch; but, he tossed 2 guys in Section 103 who insisted upon fidgeting during the national anthem.
JK!
Earlier incident not videotaped: There had been 998 fans just prior to the first pitch; but, he tossed 2 guys in Section 103 who insisted upon fidgeting during the national anthem.
JK!
quote:Originally posted by dad43:
The fans should have started singing the song...umpire could not do anything about that..I read several fans starting to announce the batters acting like the annoucer
Thank you for demonstrating why the rule exists.
quote:Originally posted by Prepster:
Seems to me that the umpire violated the intern's right of free speech/expression!
No, he didn't.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:quote:Would it have made a difference to you if the announcer, instead of playing the song, instead yelled over the PA system that the umpires were blind and screwed the call?
I think that's quite a stretch. When I was working in pro baseball, they routinely played a clip of Homer Simpson saying "Boring!" after the pitcher would throw over to first multiple times or something. It's funny when that clip gets played, but it wouldn't have been very funny if the PA announcer had said it..
It's one of those calls where I think it makes the umpire look silly for ejecting the DJ and shutting everything down like that, but it's also one of those things where the DJ should know what line not to cross..
If it's "universally known" then I think it's interesting that the clip is on the computer in the ballpark in the first place...
I simply asked if it would make a difference. Yes or no?
It's not a stretch. According to MLB both are actions that incite. I believe, however, they effect some people differently.
No telling how the clip became available. At the MiLB level the announcer may have brought it himself.
I'm empathetic to the umpires in this case.
But you are killing it fast...
I've had that "Three Blind Mice" clip in my computer for years but have never been brave/stupid enough to use it, figuring it would bring an instant hook, but I have read of a PA guy getting ejected for the same thing some years ago.
I have some cutesy clips for coaches arguing with umpires- "You can't handle the truth!"(Nicholson), "There's no crying in baseball" (Hanks), and "I guess you know that this means War"(Bugs Bunny), among others, but always clearly aimed at the arguing opposing coach.
Zinging an umpire with a sound clip is pretty stupid. While many are no doubt tempted, there are limits to what one plays...if one wants to keep one's job.
I have some cutesy clips for coaches arguing with umpires- "You can't handle the truth!"(Nicholson), "There's no crying in baseball" (Hanks), and "I guess you know that this means War"(Bugs Bunny), among others, but always clearly aimed at the arguing opposing coach.
Zinging an umpire with a sound clip is pretty stupid. While many are no doubt tempted, there are limits to what one plays...if one wants to keep one's job.
If only we could eject umps for tHe countless missed calls they make LOL
Ump Story...
Summer travel ball, HS level, tournament.
This pair of umps never missed a call. Perfect on balls & strikes and all the right safe/out calls in the field. The best HS summer ump tandem I had ever seen.
Get the same pair the next game, they switch spots and turn into the worst pair I'd ever seen. No sense of strike zone many blown safe/out calls in the field.
It's not that they were pretty good and then not so good, they were awesome and awful. It was strange.
Summer travel ball, HS level, tournament.
This pair of umps never missed a call. Perfect on balls & strikes and all the right safe/out calls in the field. The best HS summer ump tandem I had ever seen.
Get the same pair the next game, they switch spots and turn into the worst pair I'd ever seen. No sense of strike zone many blown safe/out calls in the field.
It's not that they were pretty good and then not so good, they were awesome and awful. It was strange.
Its obvious this umpire is in the wrong business if hes gonna be thin-skinned over a child's song played over the PA system. He definitely needs to pursue another career where his feelings wont be hurt.
Ad for PA music incuting a crowd, that's a just a lame excuse used by umpires to want to be kings on the baseball diamond and to get noticed instead of doing their job and officiating a game. Besides, nothing will incite a crowd more than instant replay on the jumbotron showing how royally
the umpire screwed up
Ad for PA music incuting a crowd, that's a just a lame excuse used by umpires to want to be kings on the baseball diamond and to get noticed instead of doing their job and officiating a game. Besides, nothing will incite a crowd more than instant replay on the jumbotron showing how royally
the umpire screwed up
The Three Blind Mice ejection has happened before. There is a story about the organist (live) being tossed in a Minor League game years ago. On NPR Baseball CD.
http://www.npr.org/templates/s....php?storyId=1426373
http://www.npr.org/templates/s....php?storyId=1426373
quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:
Its obvious this umpire is in the wrong business if hes gonna be thin-skinned over a child's song played over the PA system. He definitely needs to pursue another career where his feelings wont be hurt.
Ad for PA music incuting a crowd, that's a just a lame excuse used by umpires to want to be kings on the baseball diamond and to get noticed instead of doing their job and officiating a game. Besides, nothing will incite a crowd more than instant replay on the jumbotron showing how royally
the umpire screwed up
There are two things so wrong with your position...
One you dont get to MiLB as an umpire with thin skin period.....For those of you remotely involved with youth baseball, the game at the higher levels is vastly harder and much more rough. The language is more foul, the contact deliberate, the personal attacks on umpires more frequent, being beaked and spittled.....and then expected to come to the plate tomorrow with a clean slate between coach and umpire...
Thin skin hardly......
Secondly umpires dont write the rules......we just enforce them......there is a rule in place about this sort of thing being done by club employees.....its well known and with precedent.....AND no one IN baseball is remotely surprised that the Pa announcer was ejected.....
and the biggest joke of all is after someone has been ejected after all that leeway given, they think they have the right to call us thin skinned or ..want to be called "Kings on the baseball diamond and to get noticed instead of doing their job"..........
where in the coach job description is calling an umpire profane names, kicking dirt on them, bumping them or spitting on them contained?..........
quote:its well known and with precedent.....
Just because there is precedent doesn't make it right.
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:quote:its well known and with precedent.....
Just because there is precedent doesn't make it right.
Then your beef is with the MLB Rules Committee and the MLB Players Union.....they are the holders of Official Rules of Baseball........
but here are your rules where precedent does matter...
The Official Baseball Rules Book is used by many levels of play, including both MLB and minor league baseball. In ejecting the music intern, Seneca invoked the following rules:
•Rule 4.06(a): "No manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer or bat-boy shall at any time, whether from the bench, the coach's box or on the playing field, or elsewhere incite, or try to incite, by word or sign a demonstration by spectators."
•Rule 9.01(b): "Each umpire is the representative of the league and of professional baseball and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has the authority to order a player, coach, manager or club officer or employee to do or refrain from doing anything which affects the administering of these rules, and to enforce the prescribed penalties."
•Rule 9.01(c): "Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules."
Seneca is gradutae of an approved MLB school and PBUC and a law school graduate with a juris doctoris degree. He is extremely familiar with the concept of "precedent" and possesses both the professional expertise and perspective to rule on this peculiar situation.....
quote:•Rule 4.06(a): "No manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer or bat-boy shall at any time, whether from the bench, the coach's box or on the playing field, or elsewhere incite, or try to incite, by word or sign a demonstration by spectators."
At what point in time did the sound board guy become a manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer or bat-boy?
After hearing the argument, I'd have to stand with the ump on this one.
Tough, thankless job, and as prone to mistakes as any, regardless of skill level. I know I'm too volatile and hostile a person to ever consider doing the job, because I don't possess the ability to let things go quickly and move on to the next task, moments later, without affecting my performance negatively.
Are there umps that believe themselves part of the show? Yup, Joe West is the poster child for it and Alfonso Marquez is holding the placard for incompetence combined with grandstanding. However, the PA announcer getting on the umps isn't what the game is supposed to be about, IMHO. Media and fans, yes, PA no.
Tough, thankless job, and as prone to mistakes as any, regardless of skill level. I know I'm too volatile and hostile a person to ever consider doing the job, because I don't possess the ability to let things go quickly and move on to the next task, moments later, without affecting my performance negatively.
Are there umps that believe themselves part of the show? Yup, Joe West is the poster child for it and Alfonso Marquez is holding the placard for incompetence combined with grandstanding. However, the PA announcer getting on the umps isn't what the game is supposed to be about, IMHO. Media and fans, yes, PA no.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:quote:•Rule 4.06(a): "No manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer or bat-boy shall at any time, whether from the bench, the coach's box or on the playing field, or elsewhere incite, or try to incite, by word or sign a demonstration by spectators."
At what point in time did the sound board guy become a manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer or bat-boy?
Look here.........2nd rule posted....
•Rule 9.01(b): "Each umpire is the representative of the league and of professional baseball and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has the authority to order a player, coach, manager or club officer or employee to do or refrain from doing anything which affects the administering of these rules, and to enforce the prescribed penalties."
Exactly...so it's not a rule, it's an umpire's interpretation of a rule.
For me, I am not going to play locker room lawyer with piaa_ump. He is one of our most esteemed members and if he says this type of thing is inappropriate, then I am fine with that.
Whether or not it is in the letter of the rules, I think his reasoning makes good sense. It goes back to the psychology of crowds, how they behave, and what can happen if they get out of control.
I forget what the number is, but I've heard that crowds act like adolescent children (10 or 11 years old). In other words, the sum of the parts are much more immature than the individual components are likely to be. We see this type of thing at concerts where something goes wrong and the crowd goes berserk and a riot ensues. I've personally seen baseball crowds get out of control where the cops have to be called in to restore order. It seems silly that things would go that far but crowds can be that way sometimes. I think it is a good idea to try and curb things but also agree, it is a good idea for umpires to have poor hearing - at times.
Whether or not it is in the letter of the rules, I think his reasoning makes good sense. It goes back to the psychology of crowds, how they behave, and what can happen if they get out of control.
I forget what the number is, but I've heard that crowds act like adolescent children (10 or 11 years old). In other words, the sum of the parts are much more immature than the individual components are likely to be. We see this type of thing at concerts where something goes wrong and the crowd goes berserk and a riot ensues. I've personally seen baseball crowds get out of control where the cops have to be called in to restore order. It seems silly that things would go that far but crowds can be that way sometimes. I think it is a good idea to try and curb things but also agree, it is a good idea for umpires to have poor hearing - at times.
I think what's funny about this (and why it's gotten so much viral attention) is the way he did it. (I was waiting for a photoshop of Earl Weaver in the press box). I would guess most of us on here probably have not seen someone from off the field ejected so emphatically. Wouldn't most umps just go to the coach or security and sternly order removal of "troublemakers"?
quote:
Secondly umpires dont write the rules......we just enforce them......
A very good argument and one if always enforced I couldn't dispute...I guess I just see quite a few times where an umpire can take a very specific rule like this one (inciting a crowd) and don't always follow the rule to the letter of the law. To imply that the umpire has no choice but to toss the PA in this situation seems a bit of a stretch.
How many double plays are called with a phantom touch at second base and how many times on a given day is the strike zone rule not enforced based on the Rule 2:00 and the diagram below:
Rule 2.00: The Strike Zone
The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.
It's all good, who knows what happened prior to the video that might have caused what seemed to be a short fuse...I just don't see this as a black and white situation.
quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:
Its obvious this umpire is in the wrong business if hes gonna be thin-skinned over a child's song played over the PA system. He definitely needs to pursue another career where his feelings wont be hurt.
Ad for PA music incuting a crowd, that's a just a lame excuse used by umpires to want to be kings on the baseball diamond and to get noticed instead of doing their job and officiating a game.
Blah, blah, blah...
quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:
Besides, nothing will incite a crowd more than instant replay on the jumbotron showing how royally
the umpire screwed up
...which does not happen. It is explicitly forbidden.
Jersey dad
quote:Originally posted by Matt13:quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:
Its obvious this umpire is in the wrong business if hes gonna be thin-skinned over a child's song played over the PA system. He definitely needs to pursue another career where his feelings wont be hurt.
Ad for PA music incuting a crowd, that's a just a lame excuse used by umpires to want to be kings on the baseball diamond and to get noticed instead of doing their job and officiating a game.
Blah, blah, blah...quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:
Besides, nothing will incite a crowd more than instant replay on the jumbotron showing how royally
the umpire screwed up
...which does not happen. It is explicitly forbidden.
In pro football games it happens all the time...maybe baseball should allow it.