INTERSTING RE: SAT

I guess none of them are parents of the teenagers taking the tests. What's stressful is arranging a date and location that fits into your child's life along with everything else. Obviously, the SAT or ACT is an important thing to take seriously, but so are the college visits, athletics, the other school work, etc. Three saturdays? And if you repeat it a time or two - talking about nine days!?!?!?! Won't happen.

My son took the SAT's this year. With the third part of the test being added the time frame has become difficult to maintain concentration.

I don't feel taking it over 3 days would be productive, but possibly having the essay done separately may not be a bad idea. IMO having the essay completed in school possibly like the PSAT's could be a solution.

To maintain a level of mental sharpness over a 4+ hour period is difficult. I know sitting through meetings you reach a saturation point where little is accomplished and mental fatigue takes over

The "real world" as stressful as it is, allows unlimited restroom breaks.

Just another examples of our educational system bending over to meet the needs of whiney special interest groups--and I am a doctoral student in education. It is unbelievable. When did the educational system have to adapt to meet the wants of everyone. What's wrong with the special groups adapting to the educational system as presented.

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
Just another examples of our educational system bending over to meet the needs of whiney special interest groups--and I am a doctoral student in education.

JT as a doctoral student any thoughts on optimum testing time length to have the student demonstrate their best results? Is there a point where people shutdown and can not demonstrate their best. Just wondering...

Being put in a classroom for an extending testing period which can and does impact your future education is worthy of discussion not ridicule. I think it is reasonable to discuss the issue, and if there are advantages to the current program fine but if not at least discuss the subject.

I'm not a doctoral student,
but I think 2 hrs and 55 minutes would be a good length for testing


.

I think the SAT's are just something you have to deal with. Every year, we have tests in school that are just as lengthy and they take more days also. I get to take mine, get this, on April 1st. I am gonna prep like no other though and I am looking foward to getting it done with.

Also is there a site where I can get a table of how the new SAT scores even out? I got back my PSAT test scores back and I am figured to get about a 1670 on the new test. Can someone help me interpret this? Thanks

btw -
according to the Elias Sports Bureau, the average length of time to play
a nine-inning game last year was 2 hours, 55 minutes


.

quote:

Originally posted by AKBaseball20:
I think the SAT's are just something you have to deal with. Every year, we have tests in school that are just as lengthy and they take more days also. I get to take mine, get this, on April 1st. I am gonna prep like no other though and I am looking foward to getting it done with.

Also is there a site where I can get a table of how the new SAT scores even out? I got back my PSAT test scores back and I am figured to get about a 1670 on the new test. Can someone help me interpret this? Thanks

AKBaseball, If you have not already registered on-line with collegeboard.com I would recommend it. Lots of info and practice tests questions.

I'm assuming you are a 2007 grad. My son is a 2006 every school, that we spoke to, is not using the essay portion of the test. IMO I think that your year it may be 50/50.

On your PSAT the score should be broken down by 3 sections

Math
Verbal
Essay

Each is worth on the SAT 800 points.

Example if your score was a total of 1670 and you scored the following on the PSAT

..........PSAT...............SAT
Math...... 55 ...............550
Verbal.... 62 ...............620
ssay...... 50 ...............500

Hope this helps!

PSAT scoring info

Thanks Novice Dad,
I understand how the PSAT is scored. But I want to know how my projected score ranks under the new program. How good is a 1670 in the new system? I have registered there, but I forgot the password so I will do it again.

AK
1670 you've done well. Each time you take it you should improve some. I would also look into taking the ACT. There are schools that use that score for admissions and the test is supposed to be more in line with general high school academics.

Let's be realistic. The average adults attention span is about 20 minutes and yet the "educators" devise a test that lasts 4.5 hours. How many people get any training on how to stay focused on a project for that long? Classes last about 50 minutes, meetings last an hour so where is the logic in a 4.5 hour test.

JT,
As a doctoral candidate, I would welcome your thoughts on the impact such a long test would have on children who suffer from ADD or ADHD...seems to me that by asking a child, who suffers from the ability to stay focused, to focus for such a long period of time is a set up for failure...surely you would have some empathy for those individuals...personally, I KNOW that once I ate lunch I would be useless for the rest of the day!!!!!

My oldest son, an '06, has ADD. I've never liked medicating him for the condition as a matter of principle, but when he got his SATs back from the October sitting of the test (during a period when he was not taking the meds), the results were not good. We had him take his medication for the December 3 exam and it seems to have made a big difference. We just got the results on line today for the December test, and he jumped 140 points on the math and critical reading sections. I'm sure that his inability to focus during the initial exam was a key factor in his performance the first time around. Spreading the exam over three days would definitely help him, but I guess the meds did the trick as well.

Bee's point -- that the average length of time to play a nine-inning game last year was 2 hours, 55 minutes -- is well taken, but while ADD may make a kid a lousy test-taker, it doesn't necessarily mean he can't play baseball. My son is a pitcher and first baseman, and when he's on the mound, he's constantly stimulated by the give and take of being part of the battery. If there's any "dead time" in the game, it's usually of his own making. Even when he's on first, he's often busy holding a runner. He doesn't do as well in the OF. I noticed from coaching youth baseball that some of the better natural athletes were ADD kids, but the lack of focus was killing them (and our team). I'd often try them behind the plate, where some of them did extremely well. Stick them in the outfield and they're staring at the clouds. Make them part of the battery and they're in the game every single pitch.

Adam LaRoche of the Atlanta Braves has ADD. Based on his tendency to zone out, his team mates on the Braves have given him the nickname, "Three-Second Delay." He entered the organization as a left-handed pitcher before switching to first. Like my son, LaRoche is able to compensate for the condition when he's on the field. As LaRoche stated in the linked article -- "'It's off-the-field stuff, for the most part.' ... 'During games I can pretty much make myself stay focused. Between innings, I relax in the dugout." (See, http://www.dailysentinel.com/sports/content/shared/spor...BRAVES_0329_COX.html).

My son took the ACT in 2001 and at that time the test could be broken down into segments. All that had to be done at that time was the guidance counselor had to submit a request. I don’t think medical proof of ADD etc was required. While my son took the test at one sitting, I do know of others that took the test in segments. These segments were days apart if I remember correctly. What’s my take on this subject (as if it mattered)? This is really a deep subject and we have to get philosophical. Society is a blend of all kinds of people. We have to be flexible enough that our policies accommodate as many people as possible while harming as few as possible. If I shop for clothes I have to sort through all the M’s, L’s, XL’s to get to the XXL (tall) shirts. It would make for a very neat shop and convenient shopping if there were only Medium sized shirts and the consumer had to lose or gain weight in order to have a shirt. I think that mirrors the issue here. BUT...always that but...On the other hand I think we have been burned too many times with a “do good” society accommodating just a few while damaging the majority in the process.
If the ACT SAT PSAT test is meant to measure ones knowledge of a subject then what matters if it’s broken down into segments. If it’s designed to see how long a person can stay focused then we need to add another score called “Pay’n Attention”. Of course if we do that then we would have to have a Ritalin drug test prior to the test day(s).
Fungo

Except for the rare medical situations, the SAT's are part of the continuing education process. There are prep SAT classes in most school districts, a parent can buy prep SAT materials, you can take the test multiple times. All of these alternatives give the student an advantage over the test. If you want someting bad enough you need to step outside the box and take it on. I feel the SAT's are sometimes a good weeding out tool for pre-college students. If you can't step up to the SAT challenge how are you going to deal with the real college academic issues.

As far as the Guidance Counselors are concerned maybe they should also step up and address the potentially college bound student early in High School. Instead they are always dealing with either the problem students or the top 10%.

My question to the posters who have B/C students.

How many times did the Guidance Counselor at your kids school meet with them to discuss their future education plans and then follow up?

How about just eliminating the essay that they added this year? My son is going to Wake Forest and they only were interested in Math & Verbal. (Figures that his best score would be in the essay). Many universities don't even count the essay, I understand, because they don't know what to do with it. I like the level playing field for every student - just math and verbal, on a Saturday, taken consecutively.

Just for your information....

The SAT currently can only be taken in one day regardless of disability or not. WIth a documented disability, there is the possibility of extended time (most commom for all learning disabilities), enlarged type, a reader, etc. Need to apply through school and with documentation.

ACT is different - Test can be administered over a three day period and in student's home school if disability warrants this. Also, all of the above accommodations are available.

As with baseballdad, most schools we delt with were not interested in the written part of the exam. There was word that it was only going to be used as a comparison or in place of admission essays. It never came into play for us, since the ACT score was used for admission.

quote:

I like the level playing field for every student - just math and verbal, on a Saturday, taken consecutively.

I completely agree with this. While I never had to take the essay portion, I do not understand its importance in a STANDARDIZED test.

I think the essay portion leads to problems due to the subjectivity of the judges who read it. At least with the other two sections (verbal, math) there is no gray area, it is simply right or wrong. The essay opens up a can of worms not only because of the increased time to take the SAT, but the fact that other variables can be included in the grading process.

When a computer grades each test on one guidline that covers all tests, why subjugate students essays to human testers who may vary across the board in grading styles? Confusing to say the least, which is why I think a lot of schools don't use the essay portion of the test,
JMO

SonOfAMoc,

Good point on the judging of essay's. On the other hand.

Show me a kid who can communicate and I'll show you a kid that can learn.

At times I feel that grades are based too much on memory and too little on expression and creativity.

They say the smartest doctors are doing research and the dumb ones who can communicate are healing us.

RZ,

Show me a kid with a plus-600 verbal and I'll show you one who can communicate.

Baseballdad1228,

Touche. I can hardly argue with that point, but not every kid gets a 600+ verbal.

The conversations I've had with kids after taking the SAT has been that they all thought that the essay portion was challenging because it was a way to express their thoughts. Granted, these were all athletic, type A personalities and not a cross section, but to the kid, they thought that the essay was a positive benchmark on what they had learned in school.

My son thought it was the easiest component of the SAT, which is why he did well on his. He was also a plus-600 on the verbal, making communicating his thoughts somewhat easier. I agree that the ability to communicate is critical, but subjective grading of these essays makes them ineffective measures for college admission officers. There is enough controversy pertaining to the socioeconomic fairness of the two-part SAT already without adding a subjective area to be graded and presented as a reflection of one's academic potential.

In WI the SAT and ACT tesing is taken very seriously and the State's rank nationally on scores reflects that. The WI HS school ciriculums are geared for SAT/ACT success.

I agree that the grading subjectivity may be an issue in a standardized test. However, since working at the Univ of WI for 20 years I have heard from most of my student employees confirming that essays/papers make up a big percentage of college grades.

I think there is a place for the SAT essay portion in regard to college addmission. Maybe there should be a technology effort involved. When a college asks for the SAT score they are also sent a copy of the SAT essay portion where they can assess the work from a college prospective and give it a rating.

Your idea is sound, but can you imagine the additional manhours necessary in that evaluative process? Probably impractical. For years, students have been compared by a math and a verbal score. I don't see the need for a third SAT section, especially since essays are a part of the college application process. (I'm not blind to the fact that some parents hire people to write the essays, but just for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that the applicant really writes the essay). This would cover the communications capabilities of the student.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Maybe there should be a technology effort involved. When a college asks for the SAT score they are also sent a copy of the SAT essay portion where they can assess the work from a college prospective and give it a rating.

Good idea...I believe on the SAT essay you can access a copy of your own handwritten essay (they scan them) after it has been scored.