Is a certain level of cheating accepted?

To me, as an umpire, there is no cheating. Only violations of the rules or not.

If a player is caught "cheating", he gets EJ. Rules cover that such as defacing the ball or an illegal bat. If the player is doing something in violation of other rules, then there is a penalty for it or nothing happens such as the batter faking it.

There is legal and illegal deception. This would be considered illegal if discovered. The only penalty is he doesn't go to 1B.

Morally, I don't condone it and would frown upon it if I catch my kids doing it. But, as an umpire, I would overlook it and just make sure I pay even more attention to this particular player in the future so he doesn't catch me off guard.

I've learned my lesson here. Maybe you haven't. I would not want to be a part of any discussion on THIS board about cheating. THIS board is about umpires who never go to the water cooler to chat. You know, "that lady had the longest legs ever!" Here, you would be asked if you actually measured. Saying things like "the best play ever", when it involved cheating, will get you chastisment. A level of confidence is placed in one another of the brotherhood, since we get ringing ears from coaches sometimes; so we come here to "hang loose" and learn from one another. Given that, I assumed a level of understanding here about knowing what is meant when you say something. I'm not Darth Vader and I don't drown kittens. I also don't applaud or condone cheating - or throwing potatoes. I cannot believe some who actually had to have it explained to them about what I meant. I seriously doubt they are good umpires - but rather umpiring forum internet police. ciao.

"Cheating" is a long time practice in all sports. It is the reason we exists, to keep things in check and fair. The Jeter incident is a prime example. At the speed that it happened I assure you the PU had it hitting him. Jeter grabbed his hand to sell it, where I thought it was too much was having the trainer look at it. We have all seen guys short hop balls or have them roll out while on the ground and try to slide it back in unseen. We try to call these plays to the best of our ability but we do get fooled at times. Do we condone such actions, we can't, do know it happens, absolutely.
Certain actions result in rule changes. There were two very well known players years ago that had the habit of catching the ball as they advanced to second, then toss it to the fielder when they got to the base. This is why it is an out if hit by the ball before the ball passes an infielder. IFFs were developed so infielders couldn't drop a ball and get a cheap double play.
Football has the same thing. You could call holding on almost every play, pass interference on many plays. The old addage is it is only illegal if you get caught. As officials we simply can't condone it.

Im going to agree with mr. Umpire in the aspect that there is cheating and then there are violations of the rules..

There are far more violations of the rules than there are out right "cheating" IMHO..The rule book, although not being the "all seeing" document that some might wish it to be, is pretty thorough about covering the violations of the rules...

here are a few examples from my experience....

A bat with the -7 sanded off and a hand lettered BESR rating on the barrel....

cheating or illegal equipment...its clearly illegal, and someones intent was to cheat...

A coach calling time with runners on 2nd and 3rd...calls both runners to talk to him.....then puts the faster of the two on third to up his chance of scoring....

cheating or unsportmanlike conduct?...

Ringer- coach puts an illegal player on the roster using a legal players name/birthday/birth certificate...


most times its not an easy open and shut case....but the rule book covers most everyting and that our job to interpret it...

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:

A coach calling time with runners on 2nd and 3rd...calls both runners to talk to him.....then puts the faster of the two on third to up his chance of scoring....

cheating or unsportmanlike conduct?...

Both. 3 EJs.

quote:

Originally posted by dave0mary:
I cannot believe some who actually had to have it explained to them about what I meant. I seriously doubt they are good umpires - but rather umpiring forum internet police. ciao.

As I tell my students, "words have meaning, never assume anyone knows that you are using words outside their meaning."

"The best play EVER" has significant meaning in baseball.

Adios.