Is being on the best Travel teams the answer?

Define "Top Travel Team".  What is the objective?  Playing in front of scouts?  The goal is playing college ball?

There are teams like the Banditos, Phenom Signature and the East Cobb Astros who compete every year for National Travel Team championships.  Those are the "top teams" in my view.

There are many great travel teams who go to Perfect Game tournaments and work very hard at being a conduit to college recruiting.  They have a proven track record of getting players onto college teams.  I think what you should look for are teams led by people you can trust who will work in the best interest of your kid.

I'm thinking it would depend what your son wants out of a Travel Team.  The East Cobb Astros has the roster on the ECB website at 36 players....who knows maybe they have 20 P.O's, but I doubt it.   How much time do you get ON the field with that many players?  However, THAT name will draw in scouts *shrug* what do you want out of a Travel Team?

Its a double edged sword.  If your son were to play with one of the best teams, would he be getting the time on the field and the exposure you are looking for? Would the staff be an advocate for him?  Was he invited?  Travel ball can get very expensive, very fast.  I have seen parents and players play "top" programs only to be placed on one of the lower level teams resulting in frustration and a lost summer.  Although, the same can happen if you are on a team that is not as prestigious.  

Its good to to have options with a few teams.  Bottom line, make sure your son gets the time on the field that he needs.  And make sure the schedule is worth the weekends away.  

If if exposure is your concern, how does your son stack up against his class (2019)? Does he know where he would like to play or if he would like to play baseball, after HS?  The reason I ask, my 2016 wanted to remain local after HS.  We spent our time and money attending local camps, showcases, and played for a very good team that stays local (with the exception of the WWBA).  We never traveled further than 3-4 hours for a regular weekend event.  It worked for him, but he/we had a plan based on his desires and it was a lot easier on the pocket book.   My younger son (2020) has no idea what he wants to do with the exception of making varsity by the end of his Freshman season.  So we are waiting for him to figure out what he "may like" to do. 

The answer is to be on the 17/18u travel team with the best reputation with college coaches and best contacts. Being in their program at an earlier age may not matter. Arsenal is one of the top programs in our area. Only four kids on the 13u team were talented enough to make the 17/18u team. Obviously affordability is an important factor. But if the player is good enough the team will find a way to afford the player.

I agree with RJM.  The best 13u players don't always make the roster by the time they are 17u.  Yes, I know your son is a 2019 and not a 13u player, but you get what I'm saying.  Check out the rosters(s) and see where your son stacks up.  That's one of the reasons I say to do a little soul searching.  How good is your son and what does he want out of the deal.  There are a lot of travel teams out there now a days that will take anyone's money.  Just my 2 cents. 

Being on the best team for the kid is what matters.  If Banditos/Arsenal you name it national super teams are a fit for your kid's skill level, and your pocketbook, they are a good choice.  But it's not the only route.  Many travel teams stick to their state/area pond and play events where coaches/RC's from the state/area attend.

If your kid wants to go to TTech/Baylor/TCU/TAMU/UT/LSU/ULALA/Rice/UH/OSU/OU what have you, you don't have to leave Texas/LA tournaments to do it.  If your kid is good enough, of course.  Many travel teams play the "local" circuit.  I'm sure it is that way in other places.

It goes back to knowing your kid's competitive "fit", his academic goals and where those coaches/RC's will be.  Play there.

Find the agency (team/club/instructor,etc.) most capable of marketing your product (skill set/grades/makeup) to your target customer (school/s he has interest in attending).  There first must be a need for your product by your target customer.  

The agency will work much harder for you if there is mutual effort and respect, as well as a strong working relationship with good communication.  

Also, your product has a short shelf life.  It's usually important in the baseball recruiting process to utilize multiple agencies at the same time.  Don't put all your eggs in one basket and expect them to do all the work.

wow thanks for the quick response! to be honest not cause he's my kid and I don't wear rose color  glasses ,he stacks up with the best of them, he wants to be on a team where everyone has the same or better talent, hes pretty focus on what he wants, he wants to play where its warm( his parents wants to see him play closer to home ), we are from the Midwest and our springs and winters are bad, he was the starting catcher on varsity  HS team and we are in the conference with D1 players ( OLE Miss. Arizona, Arkansas commits ,a few weeks ago he ran the 60 @ 7.1 he wasn't happy with him self, his pop time last week at AC was 1.91. and from the chute hes about 80mph or more . hes so driven its scary .

Also look at the contacts the coach has.  Has the coach been doing this for a long time?  Could he call a school and say look at this kid.  And they would?  That is what you are paying for with a "top" program.  These types of programs will give up a win to have the right player in the lineup if they know someone is there to see that player.  My son has gotten attention from schools based just on his travel coach telling the RC my son would be a good fit because of xyz.   Now, your kid needs to be a good fit.  I would not expect these types of coaches to stretch the truth.  Their reputation is worth more then what any parent is paying.  But I am amazed at the amount of time this coach puts into getting his kids seen by the right schools for that kid.  It is not cheap.  But to us, it is worth every cent.  

1. You have to be on a team where you will get lots of playing time.  Being the 5th option out of the bullpen or the infielder without a position won't get you seen.

2. If you're good enough, they won't go away if you turn it down the first time due to finances or other factors.  They will come back again and again.  We have firsthand experience with that x2.

Being about the 6th or 7th best player on the team works for me. Going to play plenty and team will be about the best team you can actually do that on. As a PO maybe the third or fourth best pitcher?  Really nothing else matters if you can't get in the field. So assuming you have choices I would look at where your son could fit in above slots then see who places the most kids in college. If your kid is 15 and throwing 90 you don't really care. But if your kid is borderline you want to have the type of organization that will go to bat for you!

If the goal is to become a better player, better teammates and better competition should be part of the equation.

Joining a solid travel team opened my son's eyes to how many good players there are, and he learned a lot just rubbing shoulders with them.

1. What team he can be on where he plays a ton with a starter position would be key.  2.  If you can be a starter on a top team, great.  Hard to get seen when the scouts come to watch the beast throwing 90 and you're not on the field.  3.  Never rely on another to market your product, your kid.  4.  You have to position and help your son market himself through a strategy of email, video, calling, measurable skill appropriate showcases.  5.  Top teams and programs have access to top invite only tourney's and connections with scouts for access to AC tryouts etc.  6.  If your kid is good enough to play a position for a program like that, then it's ideal.

It's also key to find out who will be coaching the team you're considering for your son.  Our program has overhauled itself and has in depth interviews with prospective coaches.  We bounced from a few programs and found a solid program with goals that fit my 2018's and our family (coach's, summer/fall and off-season programs, cost and schedule).  Our boys have gotten stronger along with improved skill development, and forged some wonderful relationships with teammates from 5 surrounding high schools.  Our program talks to the boys a lot about their goals and college recruiting strategy, along with reminders to all the players that it's that time again before a few select tourney's to send another email out and inform the target list colleges that they'll be at the X tourney.

We do not rely on anyone one for supplemental skill development.  That's an ongoing process, with instructors and with me....  My major role is to remind 2018 the different ways he's able to help his team, especially when he goes 0/4.  Finding a positive to fuel you to the next play and next game.

Slightly  off the beaten path... but I get what you're trying to do; we've lived it the past few years.  My .02...

 (my edit was for a typo)

Gov posted:

1. What team can he be on where he's possibly a starter would be key.  2.  If you can be a starter on a top team, great.  Hard to get seen when the scouts come to watch the beast throwing 90 and you're not on the field.  3.  Never rely on another to market your product, your kid.  4.  You have to position and help your son market himself through a strategy of email, video, calling, measurable skill appropriate showcases.  5.  Top teams and programs have access to top invite only tourney's and connections with scouts for access to AC tryouts etc.  6.  If your kid is good enough to play a position for a program like that, then it's ideal.

It's also key to find out who will be coaching the team you're considering for your son.  Our program has overhauled itself and has in depth interviews with prospective coaches.  We bounced from a few programs and found a solid program with goals that fit my 2018's and our family (coach's, summer/fall and off-season programs, cost and schedule).  Our boys have gotten stronger along with improved skill development, and forged some wonderful relationships with teammates from 5 surrounding high schools.  Our program talks to the boys a lot about their goals and college recruiting strategy, along with reminders to all the players that it's that time again before a few select tourney's to send another email out and inform the target list colleges that they'll be at the X tourney.

We do not rely on anyone one for supplemental skill development.  That's an ongoing process, with instructors and with me....  My major role is to remind 2018 the different ways he's able to help his team, especially when he goes 0/4.  Finding a positive to fuel you to the next play and next game.

Slightly  off the beaten path... but I get what you're trying to do; we've lived it the past few years.  My .02...

 

 

thanks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I echo what Dadofa17 said re: playing for a travel ball coach who will lose a game b/c he wants to get his player in front of a certain scout who will only be there for inning x or y then has to move on to the next field. If your player knows he wants to be in front of that scout and the coach wants to win...opportunity lost. 

I will also chime in/advocate for choosing a well-organized travel ball coach over almost all other factors. A parent's cost goes up considerably when the TB coach doesn't communicate well. Eg. calls the family up at 10 pm and says 'get to Atlanta by tomorrow' even tho' he knew about the roster weeks earlier. True story.  I also advocate for a coach who is not scary-psycho.  (But, that's subjective!)

The scouts I've seen are super busy and all I spoke with wished there was better organization/communication on the part the TB coaches. Maybe with social media things have gotten easier on everyone?

That said, TB was a blast and taught the players I know a ton about the process. 

You should be on the best team that will provide ample playing time for you.  The better teams get scouted more; it's that simple.  But you have to temper that with the reality that if you're not playing, it's not helping.

Before accepting a roster spot, you should have a heart to heart with the coach to discuss how he evaluates you and what role he foresees for you.  If it doesn't provide ample playing time, then you need to find another team.

That may mean dropping down a rung on the ladder, or it may mean that this one fellow has mis-evaluated you, or perhaps only that he has a prior commitment to another guy at your position.

If you go to an equal team and that coach has ample playing time available for you, great.  If you have to step down a rung or two to find playing time, that should give you some objective indication of the kinds of college programs that are within your grasp.  Maybe LSU is not realistic.  Maybe you need to look at the D3 level.   Etc.

Watching your outlays is very important to most families.  And programs of equal caliber can often require substantially different levels of funding, so it's OK to compare your options.  But I urge you not to try to save money by picking and choosing when you want to show up and when you won't.  That is the one way you can be sure that every dollar you spend is totally wasted, because that kid never gets an offer from anyone.  For one thing, you never know which event will be the one where you might get seen but then aren't there to be seen.  For another, neither the player nor the parent have the knowledge to know which events are most likely to help. 

Worse, the player who comes and goes as he pleases makes a horrible impression for that reason alone.  Nobody wants to recruit that guy.

If the coach  has a desire to win he will always do what is best for the team.  Here is our story...

There has been talk of "top travel teams" my son played for arguably the best Evoshield Canes National 17U last year.  (He is currently an incoming College Freshman at a D1 School that is in 2nd semester Summer School)  He was the lowest ranked player on the team around the 350ish mark as of February 2015 and started out batting last in the order (someone has to not a big deal).  We have players from all over the country on our team.  I knew playing time would be split at best.  He is a 6'3" 185 pound 1st Baseman. Bats - L, Throws - R.  We had 2 other 1st Baseman one from South Carolina and one who was a 1st round pick in this past draft.  Long stories short.

He was the only player on the entire roster of 25 guys that did not participate in any of the following events:  PG National, East Coast Pro,  Area Code Games, UA All American, PG All American. 

At the 17U WWBA they brought in yet another 1st Baseman from California who batted 0-10 with 7 K's. My son kept plugging away.. batted .700 in Atlanta for the week.

Go to PG World Series in Arizona the 1st round pick quits because he is not getting playing time. My son keeps working...

After winning Jupiter and unprecedented 3 straight years he was one of the top 10 players in all of Jupiter batting 5 hole behind a couple guys you might know: Joe Rizzo and Seth Beer (his 2 best friends).  For the season in 42 games he hit .362 2nd on team, led in Home Runs, RBI and OBP, 2nd in Doubles, Triples, SLG, OPS.  By playing on such a high level team they faced every teams best guy as everyone was always gunning for us.  In College they are going to have to compete everyday for their playing lives start now and let them challenge themselves.  BTW, our team had 9 PG All Americans on it, he was not one of them but he did bat 5 hole in Jupiter while 2 of them sat the bench.  Results always matter more than tools.  Our Coach who is the best in the business wanted to win he did not care what your name or ranking was. 

 He is 6'3" 200 now.  Had 20 MLB scouts at first HS game this Spring.  You will find guys who have great tools but they mean nothing when the game light comes on. A scout told me I can evaluate all the physical tools but what is in his head when a player in the box  is something I can't. There were guys selected early in the draft that had no business being taken that high.  In 2 weeks time you can already start to see some of those results. I could have told anyone that for free. The best prep position players in this past draft were Rutherford, Rizzo, kiriloff and Bichette and Quintana. They have staying power at the plate. 

What I would tell anyone is that make sure your son is in a program where he is going to play. Make sure that the program is going to put him in front of the decision makers that he CAN play for. It does your son no good to be seen by major D1 programs every weekend if he is not a major D1 player. Make sure the program is a good fit for your son. This requires honesty from everyone. If we had players we believed were small D1 guys we told them what we thought. If we had a couple of guys we felt were better suited for D2 we told them. We contacted the coaches for them. We made sure they were seen by who they needed to be seen by. It's much easier to get there than it is to stick there. It's nice to say all your guys went D1. But it rings hollow when a year later half are gone from the programs. That's not to say we held back opportunities that came along simply because we felt like it wasn't a good fit. Ultimately its the players and his families decision. But I felt like I was doing a disservice if I wasn't honest. When a coach says "Yeah we like him but he's fringe." "We see him as a situational guy." "Were not sure but if we have room we will give him a shot." "If we don't get __________ we will let you know." For me it's about them loving you as much as you love them.

The top programs garner the most observation, most attention. Why? Because their the top programs because they have the top players. Just make sure it's the right fit for your son. He's going to play. He fits with those guys in ability. He will stick out like a sore thumb if he is not. And he will lose confidence and not have an enjoyable experience.

So many times the type of experience a kid has in college baseball is simply him being where he needs to be instead of where he thinks he wants to be.

baseballdad65 posted:

If the coach  has a desire to win he will always do what is best for the team.  Here is our story...

There has been talk of "top travel teams" my son played for arguably the best Evoshield Canes National 17U last year.  (He is currently an incoming College Freshman at a D1 School that is in 2nd semester Summer School)  He was the lowest ranked player on the team around the 350ish mark as of February 2015 and started out batting last in the order (someone has to not a big deal).  We have players from all over the country on our team.  I knew playing time would be split at best.  He is a 6'3" 185 pound 1st Baseman. Bats - L, Throws - R.  We had 2 other 1st Baseman one from South Carolina and one who was a 1st round pick in this past draft.  Long stories short.

 

He was the only player on the entire roster of 25 guys that did not participate in any of the following events:  PG National, East Coast Pro,  Area Code Games, UA All American, PG All American. 

At the 17U WWBA they brought in yet another 1st Baseman from California who batted 0-10 with 7 K's. My son kept plugging away.. batted .700 in Atlanta for the week.

Go to PG World Series in Arizona the 1st round pick quits because he is not getting playing time. My son keeps working...

After winning Jupiter and unprecedented 3 straight years he was one of the top 10 players in all of Jupiter batting 5 hole behind a couple guys you might know: Joe Rizzo and Seth Beer (his 2 best friends).  For the season in 42 games he hit .362 2nd on team, led in Home Runs, RBI and OBP, 2nd in Doubles, Triples, SLG, OPS.  By playing on such a high level team they faced every teams best guy as everyone was always gunning for us.  In College they are going to have to compete everyday for their playing lives start now and let them challenge themselves.  BTW, our team had 9 PG All Americans on it, he was not one of them but he did bat 5 hole in Jupiter while 2 of them sat the bench.  Results always matter more than tools.  Our Coach who is the best in the business wanted to win he did not care what your name or ranking was. 

 He is 6'3" 200 now.  Had 20 MLB scouts at first HS game this Spring.  You will find guys who have great tools but they mean nothing when the game light comes on. A scout told me I can evaluate all the physical tools but what is in his head when a player in the box  is something I can't. There were guys selected early in the draft that had no business being taken that high.  In 2 weeks time you can already start to see some of those results. I could have told anyone that for free. The best prep position players in this past draft were Rutherford, Rizzo, kiriloff and Bichette and Quintana. They have staying power at the plate. 

 

 

GREAT STORY

I think a good team helps but only if you play regularly and on an above average level. If you are a 4th outfielder and hit 260 college won't get exited. Look for an appropriate level of play. 

My son ( incoming D1 freshman ) played 3 years in HS on a 'TOP national team' That team was ranked 3rd nationally at PG and had 7 guys drafted a few weeks ago.

He was not the biggest, fastest or most talented player on that team but he learned a hell of a lot. Mostly, how to work and compete. Rubbing elbows with some of the best players in the country is a really good thing. It's the old saying ' You're only really as good as the people you play with' He learned a lot from those guys.

So, I vote for the BEST you can get a roster spot with. Parents are too concerned with playing time. If your kid can play, Well....than he can play. Let him compete, get better and earn a spot.I mean,  if he can't learn how to do that on a high level travel team at the High School level , how the hell is he gonna learn how to compete for an NCAA roster spot as an incoming freshman at the College level ?

The sad truth is that there are hundreds of travel teams in the United States and maybe 10-15 are actually important or will make a difference in development and recruiting.

My sons team had a College advisor that facilitated all contact between players and schools. Most players were automatic invites to Area Code try-outs . A large reason for that was being on that team. My son did Area Code try-outs both as incoming JR and SR .

ALL players ended up in pro ball or college

At Evoshield or JO's when they played it was STACKED. 15-20 schools watching every game.  A sea of Radar guns behind home plate.

PLAYING TIME: My son normally a starting LHP worked out of the pen most of the time. Maybe only 1-3 innings over a 5 game period. But his email and phone lit up after every event . Colleges, Pro Scouts watched every time he threw. It's NOT like that on lesser teams where he would have started or been the #1

Way more important to be attached to a great program than a program that guarantees the most playing time.

If your kid is the best guy or in the top 2-3 talent wise on his travel team, he's on the wrong team!

Anything I wrote above is just MY OPINION and doesn't really mean a whole lot...haha. It's based on my experience. Period.

I coached one of the top Showcase teams in the nation for several years. I agree kids can learn a lot from being in an environment like that. And they do. But the competition imo should be against the other teams not trying to get an at bat or inning on a weekend. You can't showcase a darn thing sitting on the bench. And you can take a kids confidence and destroy it. If a kid is playing showcase baseball , summer baseball - then he needs to be on the field actually playing. Like the Canes we had all D1 guys and numerous guys drafted every single year. If we didn't believe they could play we didn't have them on the roster. If they were on the roster they were going to play. If they couldn't compete they were not on the roster as well.

There is a short window of opportunity to get this done for most kids. A couple of HS seasons and a couple of summers. Sitting on the bench doesn't get it done. You might learn to compete but have nowhere to compete once the HS career is over. The whole idea of showcase baseball is to get kids out in front of the decision makers that are a good fit for them so they can see them play. Not ride the pine.

Some kids are an acquired taste. You need to see them multiple times in different situations to appreciate what they can bring to the table. That doesn't happen if they are not on the field. Some kids you only need to see once. A LHP who clearly has the measurables and ability you are looking for. There are many other examples. The backup SS on the team being scouted or the starting  SS on the opponent?  You can't get evaluated, appreciated, noticed, recruited, - on the bench. I don't care how good or bad your team is. You can rub elbows with MLB players. But if you don't have MLB talent your just a guy hanging out. And if you don't get the opportunity to show you have MLB talent your still just a guy hanging out. And this is just my opinion based on years of experience as well.

Coach_May posted:

Some kids are an acquired taste. You need to see them multiple times in different situations to appreciate what they can bring to the table.

 

Coach May: The above quote really struck a chord with me. I (and 2015) can definitely relate.

I don't think people realize the talent level of "top" travel teams. these teams are loaded with guys who can do things that normal very good future college players can't do...it depends on your son.

For us we found a local regional organization that has very good talent, is well coached, competes well with and against the best competition in the area. They are connected to the network of regional schools at all levels. My son is not looking to go to school 10 hours or whatever from home, he isn't looking to play in the MLB - he is a normal kid with considerably better then average baseball talent.

if you want or think you belong in the ACC or SEC or whatever you probably will be best off going to the "top" team route....however most people don't realize what that means and how few kids are really that kind of player.

StrainedOblique posted:

My son ( incoming D1 freshman ) played 3 years in HS on a 'TOP national team' That team was ranked 3rd nationally at PG and had 7 guys drafted a few weeks ago.

He was not the biggest, fastest or most talented player on that team but he learned a hell of a lot. Mostly, how to work and compete. Rubbing elbows with some of the best players in the country is a really good thing. It's the old saying ' You're only really as good as the people you play with' He learned a lot from those guys.

So, I vote for the BEST you can get a roster spot with. Parents are too concerned with playing time. If your kid can play, Well....than he can play. Let him compete, get better and earn a spot.I mean,  if he can't learn how to do that on a high level travel team at the High School level , how the hell is he gonna learn how to compete for an NCAA roster spot as an incoming freshman at the College level ?

The sad truth is that there are hundreds of travel teams in the United States and maybe 10-15 are actually important or will make a difference in development and recruiting.

My sons team had a College advisor that facilitated all contact between players and schools. Most players were automatic invites to Area Code try-outs . A large reason for that was being on that team. My son did Area Code try-outs both as incoming JR and SR .

ALL players ended up in pro ball or college

At Evoshield or JO's when they played it was STACKED. 15-20 schools watching every game.  A sea of Radar guns behind home plate.

PLAYING TIME: My son normally a starting LHP worked out of the pen most of the time. Maybe only 1-3 innings over a 5 game period. But his email and phone lit up after every event . Colleges, Pro Scouts watched every time he threw. It's NOT like that on lesser teams where he would have started or been the #1

Way more important to be attached to a great program than a program that guarantees the most playing time.

If your kid is the best guy or in the top 2-3 talent wise on his travel team, he's on the wrong team!

 

Anything I wrote above is just MY OPINION and doesn't really mean a whole lot...haha. It's based on my experience. Period.

 

Maybe this being on the best of the best team concept worked for you because your son is a pitcher.  Pitchers don't have to make it into a game they just have to be seen warming up in the bullpen....what if your kid was a SS who HAD to be seen in a game to see what talent he had?  Would you give the same advice?

Strainedoblique made some excellent points imo. For the elite players it is very beneficial if they play on a top level team. But isn't that what makes them top level? They have a team comprised of top level players. The last team I coached every player with the exception of 1 signed D1. Almost every one of them was drafted. The 1 that didn't sign D1 signed D2, was drafted and is in AAA ball now. As oblique stated it was a great experience for these guys - basically they feed off of each other. They learn from each other. We had 2 catchers they rotated every game and DH. All the position players rotated to get equal time there was no drop off. We only carried 4 OF and they rotated.

But - if your a kid that is not a player that one of these teams would want what kind of situation is best for you? A situation where there is a set line up and you are the odd man out? Where you go an entire weekend and get a couple of AB's and a couple of innings in the field? Or is it best to actually play?

Who do you need to be seen by? Are you in front of the people that you need to be in front of or the people you want to be in front of? And if your on the bench does it matter? For instance your a stud pitcher who has the opportunity to play for a top level team but be just another horse in the stable. Your not going to be the star on this team because everyone is a star. Your not going to get the ball in every big game. Your not going toe it for 6 innings every game. Your going to get a couple of innings a weekend but your going to be seen by the people you need to be seen by because everyone wants to see your team play. Now that's a good fit, imo.

Now lets say your a solid pitching prospect for the next level but not a no brainer type of decision. You are the last option on this top level team and rarely get the opportunity to pitch. Your the kind of guy that needs to be seen "pitch." Your not going to light up the gun but you can pitch. Would you be better off on a team where you would get that opportunity? Would you be better off being seen by a multitude of levels of play?

How about the position player that rarely see's the field for the top level team. An ab here and ab there. An inning here and inning there. Would you be better off getting 20 or so ab's a weekend and playing multiple innings a weekend? Actually giving those decision makers the opportunity to appreciate what you can bring to the table?

There is no set answer "Get on the best team you can get on." No get on the team that fit's you. You might not be the best SS playing that weekend. But Gardner Webb knows they are not going to get the best SS playing that weekend. They know UNC , NC State or  ECU are going to get him. They are looking for you. But not if your on the freaking bench. And what about actual development? The HS season is short. Where do you hone your skills and get experience that will make you actually a better player? On the field or on the bench? I'm a player. I want to play.

When I look at the PBR rankings for my state a great number of kids list the same big time travel program as their Summer team.  I didn't actually count, but it seems that there are more kids than one roster can handle.  So does that mean that this program's "B" team has kids that are ranked in the top 60 in the state?

Coach_May posted:

Strainedoblique made some excellent points imo. For the elite players it is very beneficial if they play on a top level team. But isn't that what makes them top level? They have a team comprised of top level players. The last team I coached every player with the exception of 1 signed D1. Almost every one of them was drafted. The 1 that didn't sign D1 signed D2, was drafted and is in AAA ball now. As oblique stated it was a great experience for these guys - basically they feed off of each other. They learn from each other. We had 2 catchers they rotated every game and DH. All the position players rotated to get equal time there was no drop off. We only carried 4 OF and they rotated.

But - if your a kid that is not a player that one of these teams would want what kind of situation is best for you? A situation where there is a set line up and you are the odd man out? Where you go an entire weekend and get a couple of AB's and a couple of innings in the field? Or is it best to actually play?

Who do you need to be seen by? Are you in front of the people that you need to be in front of or the people you want to be in front of? And if your on the bench does it matter? For instance your a stud pitcher who has the opportunity to play for a top level team but be just another horse in the stable. Your not going to be the star on this team because everyone is a star. Your not going to get the ball in every big game. Your not going toe it for 6 innings every game. Your going to get a couple of innings a weekend but your going to be seen by the people you need to be seen by because everyone wants to see your team play. Now that's a good fit, imo.

Now lets say your a solid pitching prospect for the next level but not a no brainer type of decision. You are the last option on this top level team and rarely get the opportunity to pitch. Your the kind of guy that needs to be seen "pitch." Your not going to light up the gun but you can pitch. Would you be better off on a team where you would get that opportunity? Would you be better off being seen by a multitude of levels of play?

How about the position player that rarely see's the field for the top level team. An ab here and ab there. An inning here and inning there. Would you be better off getting 20 or so ab's a weekend and playing multiple innings a weekend? Actually giving those decision makers the opportunity to appreciate what you can bring to the table?

There is no set answer "Get on the best team you can get on." No get on the team that fit's you. You might not be the best SS playing that weekend. But Gardner Webb knows they are not going to get the best SS playing that weekend. They know UNC , NC State or  ECU are going to get him. They are looking for you. But not if your on the freaking bench. And what about actual development? The HS season is short. Where do you hone your skills and get experience that will make you actually a better player? On the field or on the bench? I'm a player. I want to play.

good stuff !

K9 posted:

When I look at the PBR rankings for my state a great number of kids list the same big time travel program as their Summer team.  I didn't actually count, but it seems that there are more kids than one roster can handle.  So does that mean that this program's "B" team has kids that are ranked in the top 60 in the state?

Maybe.  Or simply that that program had a majority of kids who showed up for PBR Showcases.  You can't evaluate those you don't see

We had a Black and Gold team for Jrs and Srs and then a Black and Gold team for Rising Soph and Freshman. So there were around 90 kids listed as playing for this program. So that's probably what's going on there. I hesitate to use the term B team because almost all the kids on the Gold team ended up on D1 rosters and several were drafted as well. There were tourneys where our Black and Gold ended up in the championship playing each other. And the Gold didn't always lose.

Thanks.  I should not have used the term "B" as I guess that is a bit of a pejorative.  What I was actually trying to figure out was if the travel program fielded multiple teams that featured top kids in the state.

It's great to see Coach May back posting on a regular basis. For those who are going through the process and have only been on the board for a couple of years may not be familiar with him. You should tag his posts. If hsbaseballweb was a one person advice board (Ask the Coach) he would be the most qualified member to answer the questions. He's developed a high school program from nothing to state champion. He's been an assistant on one of the top travel teams in the country. He's been an associate scout. His son was heavily recruited. His son is now a college coach. He's probably too modest to buy into this, but baseball wise he's the smartest guy in the room.

Coach May is one of our site's greatest assets.

Rule #1 - get on a team where you will play ALL the time if possible.

Rule #2 - refer to Rule # 1.

The most important part for a young ballplayer is to play.  Baseball is the ultimate skill sport and it takes thousands of repetitions to become good at it.  Yes playing against higher level competition and having higher level team members may help in that regard but it is not the most important part.  Speed and strength training is also very important but that can be done outside of the actual playing of the sport. 

When your skills have developed by playing in the summers, fall, and spring as much as you can along with your speed and strength training, you can target schools of choice by attending their camps.  If you want a broader approach in addition to that, you can attend one or more showcases that have multiple coaches there to view your talents. 

It would be nice if we all could just play the game and have the coach of our dream school magically show up while we happen to being playing at our best against some top talent on the other team.  It does not work that way.  If you are a northern player, for example, and want to play in the south, southern coaches are  not going to be flying up in the spring to watch one of your games.  You need to place yourself before them. 

When you are in front of them, you then need to impress them.  Your 60 time, your arm strength, your fielding ability, your overall baseball skills, your hitting ability, your ability to hit for power.  The intangibles also stick out like being the first to arrive, the last to leave, the most enthusiast, the best hustler, willing to dive for a ball, stealing a base, getting your uniform dirty while making a play, and so forth.  Put yourself in the coach's shoes.  What would impress you?

Recruiting comes down to two things - talent plus exposure.  Missing either piece will end your baseball career after high school.  Do everything in your power to develop your talent until it is time to show someone what you can do.  When you are ready, place yourself in front of them and then play your heart out.

Couple of questions/comments for the group, as I also have a 2019:

(1) To what degree do these travel teams have college recruiters watching their practices? That's something I have recently seen and was not expecting. Was wondering how common it is.

(2) Similar question with regard to high school (i.e., not travel) games, in particular summer games (when the colleges aren't playing). This is new to me, but I've seen a number this summer -- is this an anomaly (my sample size of games is very small) or a viable path?

It depends on the quality of the contacts the travel coach has. It depends on the reputation of the travel program. My son's program had a showcase style practice six invited coaches from the area attended. If the travel program produces the kind of players the college coach is looking for they will come.

So here's a question.  If the goal is to be seen to get to the next level, why do some coaches not strive for getting everyone good playing time.  I have seen several "tournaments" which there is no bracket and no "winner."  The goal is to play in front of recruiters.  Why wouldn't you mix it up in that situation?  

No brackets, no winners, playing time should be divided equally.  

MLB scouts and College coaches have told us many times they would much  rather see players competing to win.  This is probably a bigger advantage to excellent players that don't have eye popping tools.  Once those top guys with amazing tools are taken, you look for "winners".  Sometimes these winners end up being more valuable than the tooled up players.  But the real winners are hard to find at an event with no winners or losers.

Still it isn't so much whether a team actually wins or loses that determines the winning type player.  It is a combination of what a player does to win games.  It's everything from intelligence, feel for the game, interaction with teammates and coaches, instincts, effort, alertness, demeanor, enjoyment, toughness, and you could keep going from there. When you combine all the winning ingredients with some talent, you have something special.  It just takes longer to pick out the real winners.

People would be surprised by how many college coaches want and look for winners.  It even separates many of those with the most tools.  After all, isn't winning something everyone desires?  When I see a talented player who doesn't care about winning, I see a player that lacks what it takes.

Won't mention any names but I once saw a future first round draft pick playing in one of our biggest tournaments.  He was the lead off hitter in the last inning with his team down by two runs.  On a 3-0 count he swung at a pitch and popped up.  Sure it was just one big mistake and everyone makes mistakes.  But that mistake told me a lot about that player.  He was either very dumb or very selfish, both being things that would get in the way. Neither which would be associated with a winner.

This player, as mentioned, became a first round pick.  He played for awhile and was released.  He had all the tools, he just didn't know what it really takes.

PGStaff posted:

No brackets, no winners, playing time should be divided equally.  

MLB scouts and College coaches have told us many times they would much  rather see players competing to win.  This is probably a bigger advantage to excellent players that don't have eye popping tools.  Once those top guys with amazing tools are taken, you look for "winners".  Sometimes these winners end up being more valuable than the tooled up players.  But the real winners are hard to find at an event with no winners or losers.

Still it isn't so much whether a team actually wins or loses that determines the winning type player.  It is a combination of what a player does to win games.  It's everything from intelligence, feel for the game, interaction with teammates and coaches, instincts, effort, alertness, demeanor, enjoyment, toughness, and you could keep going from there. When you combine all the winning ingredients with some talent, you have something special.  It just takes longer to pick out the real winners.

People would be surprised by how many college coaches want and look for winners.  It even separates many of those with the most tools.  After all, isn't winning something everyone desires?  When I see a talented player who doesn't care about winning, I see a player that lacks what it takes.

Won't mention any names but I once saw a future first round draft pick playing in one of our biggest tournaments.  He was the lead off hitter in the last inning with his team down by two runs.  On a 3-0 count he swung at a pitch and popped up.  Sure it was just one big mistake and everyone makes mistakes.  But that mistake told me a lot about that player.  He was either very dumb or very selfish, both being things that would get in the way. Neither which would be associated with a winner.

This player, as mentioned, became a first round pick.  He played for awhile and was released.  He had all the tools, he just didn't know what it really takes.

Just to be clear, there are winners to each game (it's not t-ball ).  But instead of 2 and que, each team gets 4 games, with scouts invited to watch.  The player's are playing to win.  But the coach might only pitch the "stud" for a few innings to get the other pitchers in.  

My son's team played in a "scout league" here in the Ohio/Indiana when he was 17U.  6-8 of the top organizations in OH, IN, MI, KY and IL would show up for a weekend.  Each team would play 4 or 5 games over 3 days.  Depending on the team matchup and pitchers, there were as many as 45-50 college and pro scouts at games.  My son had the advantage of usually relieving for a 6'5 lefty who was throwing 90-92.  The lefty had scouts from all over the Midwest/east coast coming to see him.  My son got to have those guys see him (though usually only for about 2 batters....lol).  It didn't get him a lot of notice early in the summer, but after he got up to 88-90 by mid-July, some of those coaches took notice.  Other than the WWBA, we never saw those kinds of coach/scout numbers at any other tourney.....but got to play the "scout league" 4 weekends.