Is HS ball becoming less relevant?

I don't know about the other states but here in Illinois there is no travel ball going on till HS is over.

And guess where all the elite travel ballplayers are playing.... yes HS.

Pretty good teams. most starting rosters are summer travel players anyway.

Our 1st four batters in the lineup also play together this summer.

 

Is HS baseball becoming less relevant?

 

That was the topic, right? As it pertains to the next level.

 

Copy and paste...

 

 It might be true that there are better options for exposure, but then again is there?  There are the high profile travel and club teams, but where do they find players to recruit without HS baseball?  There are Showcases, but the best Showcases are finding the best HS players to invite. So in many ways all the other exposure possibilities start with HS baseball.  In many cases that is where the final exposure takes place, also.  There are HS games being played every spring with 20-50 scouts following certain players. So for the top prospects it often Starts and Finishes with High School baseball. What happens in between might have created all the interest, but it might not have happened without HS baseball.

 

Right now we are scouring the country trying to find the best HS players.  The scouting community is getting ready for the draft, so they are following HS players playing HS baseball.

 

So, is HS baseball relevant?  Absolutely!

 

 

Ah! I see what people are doing. They are simply reading the thread title and completely skipping over the most important part of the whole thread. Once again, for all, read the whole first post. It may clear a few things up for some.

Am I missing something? PG and others answered your question the first time around!

When kids say they want to play against the best competition, I tend to believe  it's usually the kid parroting what mom and dad drilled in their head.The ballplayers could care less who the competition is in HS. They just want to play and win whoever it is.

Not the best idea to come late to the party then make feeble attempts to insult the host. Character is something that is obviously lacking.

If you are talking to me, it appears that you are missing what we are saying (rather than the other way around) or you are trying to make an argument.

Character?  It's ok to call someone classless they don't even know but its not ok for people to question what you are trying to ask?

BTW, you never answered my question, do you coach at a HS or college?

I asked you twice.

I am not trying to be difficult, I am just trying REAL hard to determine if you have good intentions or just trying to bust our chops.

A. You are trying to be difficult.

B. Is that your "job"? Try and find all the threads and reply's who may or may not have good intentions?

 

I think I'll pass on the baiting here. Have a good day.

I asked you a question, not understanding why you can't answer it. Why is that being difficult?  Why can't you answer? 

 

For  someone who lists themselves as a coach/AD you sure have lots of time on your hands!

Some things about HS Baseball that might not necessarily help you "get" to the college level, but once you're there, they will help you actually get between the lines on a college diamond...

 

• The ability to get up early for school, do your best each day, eat a sensible lunch, then work hard every day after a long day at school for 2-3 hours at practice and games.  A little different than just "chillin'" on the summer club circuit
• Bus rides to HS games. (If you haven't played in college, you have no idea how tough the travel can be, whether by bus or airline)  At least in HS ball you get to experience a taste of sitting on a bus for an hour or two with your team.
• If you're a top pitcher, you'll often be asked to "be the man" and dig deep within yourself for more than you might of known you had and go deeper into games, simply because you're "the Man," and the team needs the win, and you're the better option than the bullpen. You'll need that strength in College sometimes just to get through a single inning! On a good Club team, there's always a dugout full of arms ready to take over for you.  Showcases are just going out for an inning or two and lettin' it rip.

Bait?  Ha! more like a trap ...good eyes coach3?

Apparently he only asks questions. He doesn't take questions...

 

Doesn't seem that difficult, but whatever. That's why people like the internet so much... they can hide behind a name.

Coach3 - out yourself. It's time.

Thank you for your concern. I will/do/have answered all pertinent questions. If anyone has a sincere question that is great. However, we all know TPM is simply trying to get involved and start riling everyone up. Funny how I tried to start this whole thread off by saying "peaceful" yet a few of you decide to completely ignore my post and jump to conclusions and try to keep it anything but peaceful. Oh well. Nice try from me I guess?

 

Another thought... Maybe when I get 1,000+ posts under my belt I can start talking trash and getting away with it on here? Is that how it works?

Coach3 "I am enjoying reading everyone's opinions at this moment. Mine will come soon enough..."

 

Tell us all, PLEASE? To keep the peace, of course.

Coach I believe I did try to answer your question.  I stated that if you are talking recruitment, then yes, it is losing some prestige as showcases and TB become more and more prevalent.  However, I would say that we have had professional scouts in our area to see talent at the HS level.  I've contacted a few and given them some players I thought were worthy of a look.  SB from another site makes it to HS games and has even traveled to my area to see one or two.  College scouts are often so busy while in season that it is a chore for them to make it to HS games.  I had a stud catcher and a stud SS that pro and college coaches came to watch.  One was drafted. 

 

Perhaps I'm the problem because I also stated that if you were to take that question in any other direction then HS will always be relevant.  So, if I'm the problem and the reason this thread didn't go the way you wanted, I apologize. 

CoachB dont even let that thought cross your mind.

I just read over the responses again and everyone but the OP and the good doctor have doine a good job of answering the question asked.  

Coach3,

I doubt that you will make 1000 posts.

Until  someone tells me otherwise, I will be responding to your posts.

BTW, we what is your opinion on the topic other than read again what you posted?

 

And....do you coach in HS or college?  Are you the schools AD as well?  I am asking a question, very simple read it over a couple of times you might get it!

I got it,  HS.  Are you part time or full time coach and AD?

Apparently TPX wants to lurk and hijack threads just because someone doesn't buy everything she's selling. If you don't agree with how someone should do something, isn't that good enough? why do you have to track them and add stupid stuff to the thread? Do you have a block option?..please use it. And then Today you have to bring up that classless player on the Cardinals after it was locked out...you really should get over yourself a little bit. How do people become so bitter I do not know. I have seen accuse many posters of dishonesty, What is going on in your life to assume so much deceit?

Trolls is why......was I directing questions to you?  BTW its TPM but you keep posting TPX on purpose.  I guess its ok for you to repeat why cant I?

Did you get that?

The Doctor, Coach3 brought up the thread about the incident with the Cardinals when he mentioned that he hoped that I was not still dwelling on that.  In fact, I was not as that is in the past.  TPM was not the first to bring that up in this thread. 

 

Your point about ignoring a poster or several posters is a good idea.  I don't have that luxury.  Per this thread, the discussion is still relatively on topic and so it is progressing.  More than one poster in this thread has poked or prodded another.  I think Coach thought I was doing so but, I was not.  I was attempting to carry on a conversation.  Redbird and others might take Coach's remarks the same way.  It has a lot to do with personalities and how we seem to have gotten along together in the past.

 

Per the comment on having to have 1,000 plus posts to get away with something, as I've often posted, this site will be exactly what you want it to be.  If some of you don't like my posts or other members, you too can make a choice to use the ignore function. 

I don't know why this question comes up so much, to be honest. I don't know why summer travel teams/showcases and spring high school baseball can't be two completely different experiences. Each are outstanding in their own right, each bring out different experiences, each are beneficial, and each are important. 

 

On a lighter note that is probably pertinent to the conversation… if high school baseball wasn't important for the "next level," I wouldn't be logging so many miles on my car everyday to go to games. 

 

JH,

It comes up because people (not necessarily the OP) want shortcuts.  They want the easiest path. When something goes wrong in HS like junior having a "bad" coach, the parents want to bypass the system.

The summer ball and HS ball can coexist...they do. I couldn't imagine one of my players saying "nah. I'm not gonna play for my HS team."  I'd rip him a new one. I guess that is one of the any differences between someone who plays the game for the right reasons and someone who is looking for a shortcut.

This is relevant to the OP question and most of the rest:

 

The offer my son accepted to his mid-major D1 was extended after a particularly meaningful performance in a high school state playoff game attended by 1200 people.

Recruiting coordinator appreciated the effort in a tense, high-pressure environment.

Championship rounds in big summer ball tournaments are exciting, but can't match the atmosphere of a packed park where the crowd hangs on every pitch and reacts accordingly. Those surroundings more closely mimic what a player is likely to encounter in college ball.

 

So, in our case, high school ball created the visibility and the opportunity that led my son to the next level.  

 

Thank you for that example (and also to you PGStaff).

 

Redbird, I don't follow your logic about short cuts at all.  That has nothing to do with why I asked the question.

 

JH,

I'll tell you why I asked the question - because I really would like some informed points of view on this topic.  Things are changing so fast that what might have been true 5 years ago may not still be true.  And despite the mostly positive comments on this thread I think there is still a strong lack of consensus on this topic.  For example, when comments are posted elsewhere on HSBBWeb regarding HS playing time, position, quality of the practices, you name it, by far the vast majority of responses are some form of "Don't worry about it.  Make sure your son is on a quality summer team, that's where the recruiting is done".  It's hard to sort the wheat from the chaff on this thread, but out of all these comments on this thread I saw only two specific examples of recruiting at a HS game.  That's not a raging endorsement for relevance in progressing to the next level.  So I'd say it's not a black and white obvious issue, to me at least, when you strip it down to the essence of the original question.  Too bad this discussion took a left turn somewhere along way.

Ok... let's put it this way. A good high school season will get your name out there so the college coaches/recruiters know who you are come summer time. It is a starting point.

smitty,

 

I never said you did ask the question because of the logic I outlined.  My response was to JH. 

If 4-5 of the bigger successful summer programs were to put together a competitive league, I could see other baseball families wanting to skip HS ball. But it would need to be organized and very competitive. Some might say this would be a win-win situation, with the stronger talent playing elsewhere this would create more opportunities for the less skilled players.

 

 I wonder which one the recruiters would choose to watch then. 

Importance of HS baseball in recruiting.  It has lost a little importance due to the number of showcases and travel ball that is now available.  But playing always makes you better than not playing... so why not play HS baseball and then move on to summer ball. 

 

  It seems that alot of high school parents have players that are honestly pretty good high school players, and they are excited about the chance that jr. may get a on a college roster.  So during the HS school season they either get a stinky coach, or the teammates are not that good and they all the sudden feel that jr. is wasting his time in HS ball , because after all jr. has gotten a letter/email, or a phone call and he's the next big thing.

 

My advice to HS school parents.... if your son can play HS ball let them, it's over quick, he's 16-18 years old he does not even think like you do...

 

If your son is truely a top notch talent, you will not have to work hard to "sell" him at a showcase or travel team .... they will come to you and you will know.  The best are free, Area Code , USA 

 

Don't sell the farm playing travel ball and going to every showcase that sends you a letter/email... they want you money..... ( except PG they are legit)  

 

Enjoy your time, watch your son grow up, if college and pro ball is meant to happen it will happen...

 

College baseball is a job.... it's more difficult than you think..... while it is fun it's a ton of work plus you have to go to class.....long bus rides, etc...

I think the answer, like most things, might be "it depends".  Where we play - for a HS team that has been strong for the past decade and competes against the best teams in the state at the largest and most competitive high school level in our state - high school ball is relevant.  My son hits against D1 recruits every game, and tests himself against some strong competition that is older than he is.  The "all district" and "all state" honors at season-end mean something, as do the awards he earns at his high school (believe it or not - you bet its hard to make an 18 man roster at a school with 2000 ex baseball player kids and, leadership is leadership).  There are scouts watching, there are opinions formed, there is experience gained.

 

This is one area of the country and one person's experience.  Our school has several kids tearing it up at the best baseball programs in the US after going to our high school.  At least two will be drafted this year.

 

I'd imagine a smaller school in a less competitive area would not have the same relevance.  And travel teams and national tournaments are very important.  I'm not saying high school replaces playing nationally.  And stats taken by parents still aren't that accurate.  But I'll go out on the "high school ball is relevant" limb, based on what I've seen.

Just returned from a HS game in Greenville, Texas.

 

Ask "Is it less relevant?" out loud in the stands there, and you'd likely get a well-deserved thumpin'.

 

Not because their HS team is all-that -- rather because the community still values the important things.

 

No, Coach3 -- HS baseball is not becoming less relevant.

The question per the OP is whether or not high school ball has become less relevant with regard to college recruitment.  Sounds like the consensus is that it has lost some recruiting relevance based on the increasing importance now of showcases and travel ball.  

 

That doesn't change the fact that HS ball remains an important part of a guy's playing days... and life.  Nothing like playing ball with your classmates, flying the HS colors, traveling together by bus, experiencing longstanding rivalries, and playing for a true season-long championship (as opposed to weekend or week-long tourney championships).  All of these are highly meaningful experiences, obviously. And as noted by JH and others, high school games do still get scouted, moreso pro's than college... but sounds like not the same importance for recruiting as it once was.

It sure seems like HS baseball, in general, is less relevant for college exposure and recruitment.

 

My 2017 LOVES playing with many old friends, 4 going back to 2nd grade, on his HS team. Riding the bus, wearing jerseys to school on away games and dressing up in nice clothes for home games. He is representing his school and is now tied-in with the softball teams and the social circles that go with it. He also likes being the starting catcher and batting 3rd. And getting called up to play Varsity during spring break (okay, so he'll be the bullpen catcher). Loves it.

 

Plus, he's joined a great travel team for the summer/fall.  

I literally laughed out loud at this comment. After reading through this whole topic of conversation, and smashing my head against the computer screen a few times at some of the mind numbing comments. You still can't grasp the concept of the OP can you? And to top it off, you pull out Greenville YeeHaw Texas. Have they ever even seen a scout in those parts? The "well-deserved thumpin'" would be from all the locals trying to figure out the next showcase or camp they can get Jr. in to simply get ANY kind of exposure. Thanks for the laugh there JP. This is my first, and very well could be my last post on here, but feel it is well deserving. HAHAHA! Some people! Move to D/FW and get you some real competition huh?

I live in DFW PV and would be happy to tell you offline about the level of competition my son plays, but glad to give you a laugh.

 

Back to the point, I think this question and response, from a Red Sox area scout in Florida on point:

 

Can you give me from a scout’s perspective the role summer and high school baseball play in the scouting process?

 

Willie: Well, they’re both different. I think the summer has become big because all of a sudden you’ve got teams playing with wood bats; they’re playing in different tournaments against really strong competition. So you get to see these kids against other really talented players and a lot of these teams have five, six, seven, maybe even eight players that are the best in their area, so you get to see them against other talent across the country. And it’s good to start getting a measuring stick of who are the guys to come in the future.

 

But then high school baseball for me is also extremely important. You may have kids that might not be able to play summer ball. They might be doing other things; they might be playing other sports. Maybe the parents are taking a summer vacation. Maybe the kid doesn’t want to play ball, maybe the kid has been hurt. You know, there are a lot of factors that come into it. So then you go see them during their high school year. And you can see the kids and where they are at this point. And this also gives us the last chance to see players before the draft. So it gives us a chance to see them in the months coming up to the draft. How have they come along? How much have they developed?

 

So, I think that they both have a lot of value and they both come hand in hand, they all work together. And when it comes to the scout’s calendar year, we start in the summer, we go to the fall and we end up in the spring. So the spring is the last impression a player will leave in an evaluators mind. How are they at this point leading into the draft?

 

It is physically impossible to see all the kids playing high school baseball.  An area scout has a large territory in most cases and there are simply too many teams in a short season in order to see all the kids.  Especially those that just didn't want to play in the summer.

 

The main value in high school baseball is it gives scouts a chance to see all the players that have been identified.  Sometimes this process ends up identifying someone not on their follow list.  So new talent is discovered at times through this process.  Some scouts will hold Tryouts. Some will receive information from bird dogs and other contacts they trust.  But no scout is capable of seeing every high school and dollege player In their territory.  Furthermore, even if they could see everyone, they would not take the time to evaluate each player.  They are looking for professional prospects!  They schedule their travel in order to get the most done and see the key players as often as possible.  In fact sometimes an area supervisor will see most every game a certain higher profile prospect plays.  So if he is at that players games, he is missing all the others that day Unless there happen to be two games close together on the someday.

 

Most states play their HS schedule on certain days.  I can't remember right now, but Texas was a pain to go into and scout.  They used to play all their games on something like Tuesday and Friday, not sure if those were the days.  So if a kid you wanted to see played on Tuesday, the next scheduled game was Friday.  That makes it even tougher.  It's no wonder that kids sometimes get missed in Texas.

 

I can go to one or two places in the summer and see the top few players from nearly every state.  Just imagine how difficult that would be during the HS season.  So the top guys get identified and then followed by the area scouts.  The regional and National Crosscheckers and then Scouting Director are unbelievably busy during the spring season. In most every case, they are flying all over the country checking on players that have already been identified before the season even started.

 

None of this makes HS baseball less important.  If it weren't important these people wouldn't be spending a fortune flying around the country to see HS players.  I think what it says, and this is only from a scouting/recruiting standpoint, the summer and fall plays a much larger role in being identified.  As far as finding talent that hasn't yet been identified, that is our niche. We try to gather as much information as possible during the HS season.  I'd like to think that is relevant by itself.

 

JP, I think what that scout told you is true, but he should have added the spring is mostly about following a list and keeping your eyes and ears open. Did a scout really say "Maybe the kid doesn't want to play". It would take some extra special talent for me to want to travel somewhere to see that kid.

Agree, PG.

 

Didn't mean to imply I spoke with this scout. It was an online interview -- here:

 

http://www.browardhighschoolba...illie-romay/01010646

 

The scout says some pretty straightforward things about stats, too.

 

 

So Willie the Red Sox scout will drive out of his way to come scout a kid at a HS game because "he might not want to play summer ball".  Hmmm... If he hits like Trout or throws like Grienke maybe, I guess.  Scouts and recruiters I know of sort of lean toward the guys who spend their summers playing high level baseball.

 

Anyway, just to try keeping the point of this thread from being continually lost in mistranslation... 

 

A) The question is not IF high school baseball is still relevant.  Everyone agrees that it is an important and relevant baseball activity, including potential scouting and recruiting value.

 

B) The question as posed in the OP and answered by many remains, "Has high school baseball become less relevant in terms of recruitment due to travel ball and showcases?".  The consensus says yes, it has.

 

It's not a zero sum situation... it is not a black or white question... the premise is not "travel ball good, high school ball bad".

Bingo.  There is the kernel of key relevant info that this thread touched on... For anyone reading through it a year from now.

Good read! thanks.