If they’re pros just go watch a pro game.
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My two cents....
College sports is unrecognizable from what it was 40 years ago. it has gone in two different directions...bifurcation if you will. It has gone from lets provide athletics for those that want to participate and augment their educational experience to an absolute money grab by conferences, media and university presidents
No, is the answer for the D3 and other non-scholarship schools who seem to be doing just fine with their approach. Significant student participation in many sports for many schools. This model seems to work just fine.
Maybe, is the answer for almost all D1 schools that are struggling to keep up with their peer group and financial commitments. Most programs lose money. There is an athletic shakedown going on that most schools can't afford which is why tuition is skyrocketing. I read the other day that Vanderbilt is the first school to list at > $100K a tuition year. Holy crap!
Athletes want more, and they probably deserve more but under a different model and away from the NCAA. I don't know what that model is, but the current one isn't working out to well.
As always, JMO.
Definitely sad. I think a kid attending 4 years and graduating is a thing of the past for 80-90% of kids.
I agree with Fenway. D3 sports is a true collegiate athlete experience. Same with Ivy and Patriot. P5 schools that want to run sports like the pros should have their own league to do so.
And now the latest piece of news is that the NCAA can no longer restrict transfers at all, and athletes who sat out a year will get that year back.
Nowhere in the stories that I read did it say anything about the reason that transfers were restricted in the first place, which was to make it more likely that athletes graduated.
Allowing unrestrictes transfers is basically just saying that colleges are providing athletic facilities for professional athletes. And I cannot imagine what educational rationale any college could have for doing that.
@anotherparent posted:And now the latest piece of news is that the NCAA can no longer restrict transfers at all, and athletes who sat out a year will get that year back.
Nowhere in the stories that I read did it say anything about the reason that transfers were restricted in the first place, which was to make it more likely that athletes graduated.
Allowing unrestrictes transfers is basically just saying that colleges are providing athletic facilities for professional athletes. And I cannot imagine what educational rationale any college could have for doing that.
Personally I think that for non P5 schools there should be a rule that says something along the lines of if you are on athletic aid in your junior year, you have to receive it in your senior year. I may be mistaken but I don't think there is a college that you can go to for one year and get your degree, even if all credits somehow transferred.
Well if they're being paid then this is just like being fired from your job. You find another one.
Of course, after you use up your eligibility you can't have that job any more - oops, they'll probably change that too, and allow "college athletes" to play as many years as they want. After all, these eligibility rules are pretty constraining too, they should be removed also.
@anotherparent posted:And now the latest piece of news is that the NCAA can no longer restrict transfers at all, and athletes who sat out a year will get that year back.
Nowhere in the stories that I read did it say anything about the reason that transfers were restricted in the first place, which was to make it more likely that athletes graduated.
Allowing unrestrictes transfers is basically just saying that colleges are providing athletic facilities for professional athletes. And I cannot imagine what educational rationale any college could have for doing that.
The sit out rule was implemented when my oldest (daughter/softball) was in college. The reason was academics. The NCAA stated athletes weren’t properly advancing towards degrees due to transferring.
@anotherparent posted:Well if they're being paid then this is just like being fired from your job. You find another one.
Of course, after you use up your eligibility you can't have that job any more - oops, they'll probably change that too, and allow "college athletes" to play as many years as they want. After all, these eligibility rules are pretty constraining too, they should be removed also.
After seeing several players use their extra year(s) to get into good grad schools, I would be in favor of adding years for players going to grad school. I would want to see a minimum undergrad GPA tied to it though as a reward for academic achievement during that time.
Are you kidding???? College sports is not about education, that's what we are being told! College athletes are paid employees! And as such, they should have the right to work as long as they want, regardless of grades or degrees! (maybe the 10-year BA plan?)
I mean, that's the logical conclusion to all of this.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:After seeing several players use their extra year(s) to get into good grad schools, I would be in favor of adding years for players going to grad school. I would want to see a minimum undergrad GPA tied to it though as a reward for academic achievement during that time.
I question how many players complete those graduate degrees versus how many are using it as an avenue to stay and play one more year. Playing one more year allows a kid to delay entering adulthood and responsibility.
I’m for making the athletes employees. Then, as college employees they have the option of free education.
When discussing this we have to recognize there are the sports where athletes have a shot at going pro in a legitimate professional league or pro tour (baseball, football, basketball, hockey, soccer, golf, tennis) versus those where the only legitimate post college opportunity is a national team.
@RJM posted:I question how many players complete those graduate degrees versus how many are using it as an avenue to stay and play one more year. Playing one more year allows a kid to delay entering adulthood and responsibility.
Who cares? If it is tied to undergrad academic performance you restrict to it more serious student athletes. Of the 20 or so players I know who did this, 14 have exhausted their eligibility and all of them are staying in school to complete their masters. If they decided not to, that’s up to them. Even if athletes figured out how to take advantage, at least more would graduate with their bachelors
Seven years of college down the drain!
@RJM posted:I question how many players complete those graduate degrees versus how many are using it as an avenue to stay and play one more year. Playing one more year allows a kid to delay entering adulthood and responsibility.
My son did a graduate certificate program. He has no intention of finishing the last 2 classes, but he graduated in 3.5 years and had a medical redshirt year so that was his only option for finishing the year out. Probably a lot of guys don’t finish but the grad stuff should be winding down across the board.
@RJM posted:I question how many players complete those graduate degrees versus how many are using it as an avenue to stay and play one more year. Playing one more year allows a kid to delay entering adulthood and responsibility.
My son just got his BS and had a medical redshirt year this year. He put his name in the grad portal to see what options are out there. I get it he wants to finish healthy. It'll have to be a good fit for him to stay playing for another year though.
Here is a post I made on another site with some additions:
Is the NCAA taking actions that will lead to the demise of the NCAA? Now, P5s can pay players. What happens when the lesser teams in the P5 can't afford to attract or keep any of their top players? The transfer portal is no longer about giving a player a better chance to find playing time or get out of an uncomfortable position but now will also include pay or better pay.
How about those teams that aren't P5? How long will it be before those teams/schools decide that the field of competition is no longer equal and seek to start their own association?
How long will it be before agents are hired to negotiate for these professional college athletes? What are the tax implications? Since these athletes are now professionals, and in fairness to all taxpayers, their money and their college educations need to be looked at as income.
When my daughter played, her image was used on billboards in the city she played in for the university. As parents, we thought that it was pretty neat driving into the city and seeing her image up on billboards. The last thing we thought about was her making money off of it. When we arrived at the university, her image and other players' images were displayed in various places on the university. We were so proud and, she was receiving a quality education which was the real goal. Times have changed.
Correct me if I am wrong but as an athlete don't you have to maintain a certain amount of credits to remain elgible?
My understanding also is that most student athletes are way better students nowadays than years ago.
@fenwaysouth posted:My two cents....
College sports is unrecognizable from what it was 40 years ago. it has gone in two different directions...bifurcation if you will. It has gone from lets provide athletics for those that want to participate and augment their educational experience to an absolute money grab by conferences, media and university presidents
No, is the answer for the D3 and other non-scholarship schools who seem to be doing just fine with their approach. Significant student participation in many sports for many schools. This model seems to work just fine.
Maybe, is the answer for almost all D1 schools that are struggling to keep up with their peer group and financial commitments. Most programs lose money. There is an athletic shakedown going on that most schools can't afford which is why tuition is skyrocketing. I read the other day that Vanderbilt is the first school to list at > $100K a tuition year. Holy crap!
Athletes want more, and they probably deserve more but under a different model and away from the NCAA. I don't know what that model is, but the current one isn't working out to well.
As always, JMO.
I agree with the one caveat that all Regionals, and Championships are funded by basketball "final four" I suggest we cancel all sports in D1 except for basketball, and make everything else D3. 
"March Madness is by far the most important event the NCAA puts on all year. According to Tim Parker at Investopedia, The NCAA earned $1.14 billion in revenues in 2022, with roughly $1 billion of those earnings coming from March Madness. According to the NCAA, about 90% of the money it collects immediately flows out to the member schools. This does not occur through direct cash payments but a series of funds that are made available to conferences that is later distributed to member schools."
Pro sports would fight it. They like having someone else pay for their minor leagues. MLB is just now catching on with the contraction of MiLB.
@auberon posted:Pro sports would fight it. They like having someone else pay for their minor leagues. MLB is just now catching on with the contraction of MiLB.
Fight it how? If many universities decide they can't afford it?
@TPM posted:Correct me if I am wrong but as an athlete don't you have to maintain a certain amount of credits to remain elgible?
Yes, but why bother with all that, if you're paying the athletes? Just have them be employees. Get rid of all rules related to eligibility. Let them play for as many years as they want (I can't believe that with all of these lawsuits, no-one has proposed that).
I mean, how many jobs are there (other than professional umpires) where can only perform the job for a fixed number of years before getting bounced?
@TPM posted:Correct me if I am wrong but as an athlete don't you have to maintain a certain amount of credits to remain elgible?
My understanding also is that most student athletes are way better students nowadays than years ago.
If a player has one year of eligibility remaining and not looking at finishing the degree he could take twelve credits in the fall and sleep late in the spring. It won’t catch up to him until the spring semester is over.
A neighborhood kid (attended a ranked program) told me one of his projected one and done basketball teammates did this. Freshman year didn’t go as planned. He was advised to stay in school. He couldn’t. He didn’t attend classes in the spring. It forced him to go into the draft. The rest of his basketball career didn’t go well.
If these players are now employees, are they entitled to health care?
I think everyone is going the opposite direction on how to handle this. Enforce real educational requirements, require a declared major, and academic probation loses you a year of eligibility. make it so student athletes are actually students. If a school is trying to make money off a student image, then that student better be on full scholarship. Stop making college sports the minor leagues of Professional sports, if you aren't smart enough or dedicated enough to stay in college, go play minor league, development league or independent ball.
My alma mater, a P5 conference and an Engineering School has ZERO engineers or STEM majors on the Roster and everyone is a Sales Major. Can you say, made up major for athletes. They used to require a declared major, but everyone complained that's why they couldn't compete in football.
@HSDad22 posted:My alma mater, a P5 conference and an Engineering School has ZERO engineers or STEM majors on the Roster and everyone is a Sales Major. Can you say, made up major for athletes. They used to require a declared major, but everyone complained that's why they couldn't compete in football.
Son recieved a 90% scholarship from Clemson. They would not allow him to major in any engineering program.
He ended up receiving some degree but it was years later after his pro ball gig. I am not sure what it is.
But It really doesn't matter because he has a great job and loves what he does.
My son's college experience is what helped him to be successful in life, let alone success as a college coach.
So my opinion, absolutely not.
@HSDad22 posted:I think everyone is going the opposite direction on how to handle this. Enforce real educational requirements, require a declared major, and academic probation loses you a year of eligibility. make it so student athletes are actually students. If a school is trying to make money off a student image, then that student better be on full scholarship. Stop making college sports the minor leagues of Professional sports, if you aren't smart enough or dedicated enough to stay in college, go play minor league, development league or independent ball.
My alma mater, a P5 conference and an Engineering School has ZERO engineers or STEM majors on the Roster and everyone is a Sales Major. Can you say, made up major for athletes. They used to require a declared major, but everyone complained that's why they couldn't compete in football.
While I agree college sports should emphasize academics, college football and hoops are too big and make too much money to be contained at this point. The athletes won in court to be comped for their NIL and that is never going back in the bag. Now with players becoming employees they are even less like their peers in the classroom, if they are forced to even go to class in the future.
There are a lot of kids who want STEM or other challenging majors who had P5 opportunities and chose to go where they can follow their major path while still enjoying the game they love. I have no idea what it would look like, but I’d be in favor of a split in college sports where there are true amateur student athletics and let the P5’s go do their thing.
@HSDad22 posted:I think everyone is going the opposite direction on how to handle this. Enforce real educational requirements, require a declared major, and academic probation loses you a year of eligibility. make it so student athletes are actually students. If a school is trying to make money off a student image, then that student better be on full scholarship. Stop making college sports the minor leagues of Professional sports, if you aren't smart enough or dedicated enough to stay in college, go play minor league, development league or independent ball.
My alma mater, a P5 conference and an Engineering School has ZERO engineers or STEM majors on the Roster and everyone is a Sales Major. Can you say, made up major for athletes. They used to require a declared major, but everyone complained that's why they couldn't compete in football.
The college ball being minor league pro baseball train has already left the station. As mentioned above college football and basketball are monsters that can’t be put back in the box.
My opinion after being here for some time and been through the college baseball experience:
- Your son is not going to play pro ball and make a living. (how many who have been here at HSBBW and are actually making a living playing professional baseball, I can think of two)
- Use baseball to get a college education at a level higher then you might have otherwise been able to achieve as well as offset the heavy burden of loans. Leverage baseball skills for a better life after baseball.
- STEM and D1 ball are not possible. I know that from my son's journey the only schools that fit this profile were Stanford, UCDavis, and the Ivy's, I am sure there are a few others, but not many. Is Stanford a P5? Find a place that balances education and baseball.
- College baseball combined with studies is hard, freaking hard, I'll say it again, freaking hard, most high schools studs have no idea how hard it is. But it is magical and life changing, but only the very disciplined survive.
- NIL is dramatically changing college sports, however only the top tier are being impacted by this and frankly I have no idea how many baseball players are generating any income from this avenue. My guess is not many.
- Winning is a lot more fun than losing. The real fun begins IMO at conference championships, Regionals, Super-Regionals, and of course the CWS, regardless of level, pick a winning program a "level down" you will not regret this.
- Think about travel, I posted a thread earlier about the disbandment of the P-12. West Coast schools are now going to be flying across the country. Can your son handle this and studies and are you able to travel across the country ?
I am sure I missed a few points but JMO.
Re: travel
I’d rather be in an airport and plane for six hours than a bus.
You clearly don't understand the issues of travel, and I know from someone who travels over 125 days a year - there are no 6 hour flights across the country. 2 hours to airport, get there 1.5 hours ahead, a connection, so airplane is 6-8 hours, get luggage another hour, travel to hotel and your talking about a 10+ hour trip each way. Plus baseball players are not getting chartered flights. What about families who want travel with the team? This is going to be a big deal for West Coast players who make up a significant population of college baseball players.
All of the former PAC-12 schools were 1-2 hour flights or drivable. For the 35% of the players in college baseball from the West Coast these newly aligned conferences are going to have an impact IMO.
@TPM posted:Son recieved a 90% scholarship from Clemson. They would not allow him to major in any engineering program.
He ended up receiving some degree but it was years later after his pro ball gig. I am not sure what it is.
But It really doesn't matter because he has a great job and loves what he does.
My son's college experience is what helped him to be successful in life, let alone success as a college coach.
So my opinion, absolutely not.
That’s my concern, I think son wants to major in engineering
Don’t remember the school, but I saw an interview and the former PAC 12 school is chartering flights for their teams because they are making so much more money. The players were happy to have shorter flights than the old bus rides and connecting flights.
@BOF posted:You clearly don't understand the issues of travel, and I know from someone who travels over 125 days a year - there are no 6 hour flights across the country. 2 hours to airport, get there 1.5 hours ahead, a connection, so airplane is 6-8 hours, get luggage another hour, travel to hotel and your talking about a 10+ hour trip each way. Plus baseball players are not getting chartered flights. What about families who want travel with the team? This is going to be a big deal for West Coast players who make up a significant population of college baseball players.
All of the former PAC-12 schools were 1-2 hour flights or drivable. For the 35% of the players in college baseball from the West Coast these newly aligned conferences are going to have an impact IMO.
I traveled the country three if four weeks for twenty-six years. One year I commuted from LA to the east coast three of four weeks of the month for a year.
Chances are schedules will be set up with multiple teams traveling and charter flights.
@BOF posted:You clearly don't understand the issues of travel, and I know from someone who travels over 125 days a year - there are no 6 hour flights across the country. 2 hours to airport, get there 1.5 hours ahead, a connection, so airplane is 6-8 hours, get luggage another hour, travel to hotel and your talking about a 10+ hour trip each way. Plus baseball players are not getting chartered flights. What about families who want travel with the team? This is going to be a big deal for West Coast players who make up a significant population of college baseball players.
All of the former PAC-12 schools were 1-2 hour flights or drivable. For the 35% of the players in college baseball from the West Coast these newly aligned conferences are going to have an impact IMO.
There are some programs that charter flights for difficult trips. We did it a few times this year. Long travel is tough and probably adds an additional missed school day.
I'm sure that most schools are not going to charter planes for small teams, or non-revenue sports. Those athletes are the ones who will be most impacted by the ridiculous travel distances.
IMO, football and basketball should operate in a completely different universe from all the other sports. Different conferences, different championships, different funding, different eligibility/transfer rules, etc.. Then let all other sports go back to regionally-based conferences, academic rules, etc.
The teams out West joined major P5's for the money.
Florida rarely travels outside of the state for regular games. Non conference teams come to them and get a good cut of the gate fees. It's all done 2 years in advance. For SEC scheduled games, when a team travels its paid by the conference all charter either plane or bus.
NCAA games are paid by the NCAA and that is for all teams that participate in post season.
What's the argument? This isn't travel like it was years ago.
Stop comparing the past to the present, unless you have facts.
I might add, all teams pay their share of expenses.
I say blow it all up, back to original conferences, no national tv coverage, no NIL, etc. Conference championships only,no national championships. No National rankings, just wave the magic wand and go back to before national televised college sports was a thing. Oh and while I'm waving my Magic Wand, don't forget to get rid of the NCAA as a governing body....
College sports is a great thing, what it's become at the P5 D1 level, is a disaster.