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7 replies

Is this enough throwing

infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
IP H R ER BB SO AB BF NP
12.0 14 6 5 6 6 46 54 206

Here is the line for a DIII pitcher from a game earlier this week. Reportedly the game was played in low 40's degree weather.
For those who advocate that pitchers don't throw enough, is 206 pitches in an outing acceptable, ever?

'You don't have to be a great player to play in the major leagues, you've got to be a good one every day.'

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P PGStaff10,000+ posts
infielddad,

For the most part, this would not be acceptable and appears to be abusive.

That said, I guess you could say that it depends on the type of pitcher. If he's a soft tosser who doesn't exert much effort, it is one thing. If he is a hard thrower with a good arm, he probably doubled what his pitch count should have been.

Probably not acceptable either way, with that pitch count, but it does make a difference from one pitcher to the next.

Then there is the old competitive angle. I don’t want anyone to take this the wrong way, but if… Let’s say…

Pitcher A is a college senior and definitely not a prospect. He is pitching in a very important game and is throwing as well late as he did early. He is in his final year of baseball and this is very important to him. I might stretch that pitch count out quite a ways. Nearly all pitching arm injuries result in not being able to pitch. They do not keep a player from having a normal productive life, doing most anything else.

Pitcher B is a college senior with a chance to play professional baseball. He is in an important game and is still throwing well late in the game. Not sure exactly where I’d draw the line on pitch count, probably around 100 this time of year, but there is no way I’m going to take a chance in ruining this kid’s future.

Guess I’m saying I would look at the two pitchers above somewhat differently. I understand if someone thinks that is the wrong way to look at it. In any case 206 is a little crazy!
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
infielddad,

For the most part, this would not be acceptable and appears to be abusive.

That said, I guess you could say that it depends on the type of pitcher. If he's a soft tosser who doesn't exert much effort, it is one thing. If he is a hard thrower with a good arm, he probably doubled what his pitch count should have been.

Probably not acceptable either way, with that pitch count, but it does make a difference from one pitcher to the next.

Then there is the old competitive angle. I don’t want anyone to take this the wrong way, but if… Let’s say…

Pitcher A is a college senior and definitely not a prospect. He is pitching in a very important game and is throwing as well late as he did early. He is in his final year of baseball and this is very important to him. I might stretch that pitch count out quite a ways. Nearly all pitching arm injuries result in not being able to pitch. They do not keep a player from having a normal productive life, doing most anything else.

Pitcher B is a college senior with a chance to play professional baseball. He is in an important game and is still throwing well late in the game. Not sure exactly where I’d draw the line on pitch count, probably around 100 this time of year, but there is no way I’m going to take a chance in ruining this kid’s future.

Guess I’m saying I would look at the two pitchers above somewhat differently. I understand if someone thinks that is the wrong way to look at it. In any case 206 is a little crazy!


I totally agree with PGStaff on this.

206 is too many but each pitcher and each situation is different. This comes down to good coaches who know their players.

If velocity is still good and mechanics are still good then you can throw a large number of pitches without really hurting the arm. Once velocity dips and mechanics are breaking down then a coach better get him out.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
Two different players , two different scenarios.
#1 RHP SR. Coach Im not going to college to play baseball. I want to finish this game as long as I am getting the job done. This is the last game Im ever going to play. Kid throws 145 pitches in a 7 inning game. We win 9-7. The kid thanked me for allowing him to finish the game. It was the last time he ever played in an orginized baseball game. We all knew it would be.

#2 LHP SR. Kid is a bonafide stud. Signed with NC State. Projected top three round draft pick. He never throws on less than four days rest. He never threw more than 100 pitches in any game. He is lifted in the conference championship game in a 1-1 ball game after 6 innings due to throwing 90 plus pitches. We know that he will exceed 100 if we put him back out there. I was not going to be responsible for taking a risk with this kids future. He is drafted in the third round and is in Double AA right now.

The problem I have is when coaches leave guys out there and take risks with young guys arms before these types of decisions have had a chance to be made.
20dad20dad1,000+ posts
i think 206 pitches is crazy. counting bullpen,warmups between innings........lots of throwing. if you prescribe to the ,so many bulletts in the gun theory, you just spent quite a few. i do understand pg's explanation,i don't think it should matter. but i know it does.

as the dad of a son who was looked upon to throw like this. and he did on more than a few occasions. i was ignorant to the possable outcome,he was a competitor wanting the ball. i thought he was at the top level of his play, turns out he wasn't.but he ran out of bullets. lots of players haven't run out..................yet.
most coaches/players want to win today. that is the 6th tool you can't measure in a player. and you can throw like this for quite awhile,until you can't.
Last edited by 20dad
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
A few years ago there was a debate regarding a college senior pitcher who threw a complete game against UM very early in the season, around 150+ pitches.
Comment was made doubt he would go onto play proball so let him have his day.
He was drafted before 10th round. He is now on the DL and not gotten out of extended yet. Though I doubt that one game was not the cause, all things add up for pitchers. Regardless prospect or not, 206 pitches in the cold is ridiculous.

JMO.

Anything can happen to any pitcher at any time, the object of the lesson is to try to not think in the moment, but the future, because you just don't know where you will end up.

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