J.R. Tucker @ Mills Godwin @ 7 5/3/11

Godwin wins 8-5. Looks like Tucker is just a hair short on pitching after Engler/Gorman to be considered a legitimate contender.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cman1012:
Godwin wins 8-5. Looks like Tucker is just a hair short on pitching after Engler/Gorman to be considered a legitimate contender.[/QUOTE\

cman-How well do you know the Tucker team? Are you stating that Tucker only has two legitimate pitchers on their roster?

I just think they don't have enough pitching depth to overcome Deep Run AND Godwin in the district.

CMAN-You need to recognize that quite frankly, you sound like an uninformed biased player in this.
Please feel free to take a moment to look back at past games involving not only these teams, but Deep Run. I'm confident you know each score involving Deep Run, but add these 2 squads as well.

Stephens gave up 5 legitimate runs to Tucker last night. I guess he is struggling too based on your analysis, so Godwin doesn't have 2 legit Pitchers.
Brooks also gave up 5 legitimate runs to Tucker. Perhaps you should reach out to all of your college contacts to see what they think of that young man? DR doesn't have 2 either, correct?
Engler gave up 6 last night to Godwin.
Somehow, ODU must think the guy has something positive to offer.
Thats 3 different pitchers from the 3 teams in question.
My point is simple-there is not a team that can realistically say, in the Colonial, that we have 2 shut down guys.
Gorman was a key figure in Tuckers season last year.
Brooks was a key figure in Deep Runs season last year.
Neither one of these guys have been dominant this year.
2 great kids and good ball players-I would think that most in the area believe that they can play at the next level.

Plenty of baseball left in the next couple weeks, but you should recognize that every team is capable of losing.
You are clearly thinking the DR-Godwin District final is automatic.
You come across as foolish at a minimum.
Could certainly happen, but don't book it yet.
Ever hear of a kid named Brandon Taylor?
He's the kid with 12K's vs. Deep Run and shut them down a couple short weeks ago.
Who's to say that won't happen again come playoff time?
With Rooker/Burnett/Pauley/Smith in the wings, why can't Hermitage make some noise?
With Gorman/Redshaw/Gonzales in the mix, who's to say Tucker couldn't make a run?

1 questionable off night does not a bad pitcher make....
Open your eyes and look at the big picture.

Best of luck to all teams involved in the coming weeks...

I would say this is probably as wide open a year in the Colonial as I've ever seen. Most of the top five to six teams could beat each other on any given night. The thing about pitching depth is that you'd rather have depth than not have depth, but you can only run one guy out there at a time. Especially in high school, a team is only as good or bad as that night's starting pitcher.

I forget exactly how the Colonial District tournament works, but I think the top eight get in. Regular season finish could be very important this year as the top two teams will get de facto byes (against MW/JM/TJ). So teams 3-6 will have to throw one of their top arms in hopes of winning that first game. It seems that every year the Colonial tournament has some surprises, but I guess that's always going to be true in districts that allow everyone in the tournament.

It does seem that everyone in the Colonial is doing their best NOT to win the district.

Deep Run has had Boyle emerge as a top flight starter. Brooks has struggled with his control since he was dominant in an early game at Godwin, and at times he reduces his velocity to try to get the ball in the zone; both things have made him vulnerable. Gardner may end up stepping up to meet a need as the season comes down to crunch time.

Godwin has Lees, and as their head-to-head game showed, Lees and Boyle are pretty much equals and probably the top 2 in the district, at least in the absence of Freeman's Godfrey, who has not been pitching of late and apparently has something holding him out of pitching (specifics not known to me). Garrett and Stephens have had their on days and off days.

Tucker does have Engler, but he seems to be a 4-5 inning guy who's constantly asked to go 6-7 innings. Yes Engler is on his way to ODU but I think he's viewed by them as primarily an offensive player who may pitch some in relief, not the other way around. Tucker has a couple of others who have had their ups and downs. Generally I've seen Tucker a number of times and I'm just not sold on them as contenders. Just my opinion, though, and I know there are some Tucker fans here who will take umbrage at that suggestion.

The team I keep expecting to surge is Freeman, but maybe that isn't going to happen unless Godfrey starts pitching again.

If I had to guess, I would guess that Godwin comes out on top in all this. They seem to be the most capable of playing all 21 outs tough. But then, they've had nights when the wheels have come off, too, so you never know what will happen when it comes to single-elimination time.

One thing for sure, unless Brooks finds his A game soon, I don't see any of these teams winning the region. None of them look ready to put up 2-3 consecutive sharp games.

I know Gardner to be a solid player. Yet Midlo seems to mention him a lot as a major player or suggests he should be. I am not sure what games you have been going to that have you convinced of that, yet other pitchers are so up and down. I am happy that ODU has given you an impression of how Engler will be used. We will see, as he is a top notch guy that actually has had some innings. Several pitchers whose names have not been mentioned have already been on D1 visits and are talking to coaches "unofficially". Just goes to show you that some of these high schoo guys are not seeing what top notch schools see. Maybe it is the experience.

Just an opinion from your latest "drive by".

Definitely some good observations by Midlo.

I've seen 0 indication that Gardner will be a factor in DR's rotation. Not a knock on the kid, just simply seems like the coach has not given him ample work or trust to put him in a District/Region Final given his experience this year. They will clearly be staying with Brooks/Boyle. In fact, may be unfair to Gardner to throw him in at that level of competition as he has not faced the upper-tier teams this season.

With Lees, Godwin will always be a factor. However, when he is not their guy, as Midlo mentioned, its a toss-up. Which guy will they turn to, and more importantly, will he be on? The same can clearly be said for everyone in the district. If their #2 is on, they will be tough to overcome as Godwin generally plays strong D.

For Tucker, while Engler is clearly their #1, they have had guys put in tough spots throughout the season. To my knowledge, and I have not been to nearly all of Tucker's games, Engler has not gone the distance 1 time all season. He is definitely a 4-6 inning guy that has kept them in games, and/or won games as their primary starter. Gorman has a couple W's, but he's had a couple nights where his stuff wasn't there. If he is on, Tucker can also be right there. With Gonzales coming in out of the pen, if either or both of those guys gets it to the 6th/7th, they have won every time with the lead. JRT Coach has consistently used Gonzales late in games in both ties and 1-2 run games, and he has responded consistently and I believe won a couple with a couple saves. If he hadn't been, they'd have found someone else by now.

I don't see Freeman emerging without Godfrey. Even with him, they are suspect, as the results show, when he is not on the hill. They have struggled in most facets of the game when I have seen them, and managed a meager 3 hits vs. Hermitage the other night. Godfrey or not, their offense will have to step up if they are going to emerge. Frankly, they've shown no evidence of that occurring IMO.

Would think that Godwin is likely the best bet given the Lees factor, their D and the way the top of their lineup has responded of late. They have had a few bad games and it all goes back to the fact that no team is the clear-cut favorite to win it this year.

For the record-top 6 teams in the District advance with top 2 getting byes.
Definitely a couple big games upcoming to likely determine the 2 seed.
Godwin-Hermitage
DR-Hermitage
DR-Tucker
JRT-Hermitage

Hermitage sweeps, they are the #2.
DR sweeps, they are the #2.
Tucker sweeps, they will be #2.

All of these are assumptions based off of not coughing up vs. a lower echelon team.

Is the top 6 making the tourney a new thing? I was pretty sure it used to be eight. When MW upset Deep Run, weren't they a 7 or 8 seed? I can't remember.

Also, anybody know the regional matchups (i.e. which districts match up with each other)?

Gardner had a solid start last week but the game got washed out before it was official. I've been mystefied at DR's seeming reluctance to use him but was thinking that the sudden decision to use him, plus his doing well when used, might be a turning point. My point is, he's a kid who's proven himself in other venues and he's available whenever the coach gets his mind right. Deep Run doesn't have to run out of pitching just because one guy has an off night.

I don't doubt that many others have been on college visits, etc. Coaches look at a lot of kids, and some get invitations just because they asked to be looked at, not because someone saw them and evaluated them. Visits at this time of year, esp. at D-1's, also tend to be underclassmen -- more your "up and comers" than necessarily your senior leaders. And it's also true that I haven't seen everybody, so there could be some I've missed. Still, I would think if there were a hidden gem out there, he'd have his team in contention by now.

I was thinking Burnett and Rooker could do wonders for Hermitage. Not sure why but we haven't seen a lot of shut-down performances out of Burnett and Rooker is not really getting used at all. (Anyone know why?) Haven't seen the Taylor kid yet; is he Scott's younger brother by any chance?

Brandon Taylor has potential to be the real deal. Have watched him mature over a few years and think his mental toughness has improved greatly. When he is on and the game is well called he will be hard to hit. Glad he has gotten a chance to shine.

I think what amazes me the most is that most of the posts discount a player because he may not be on the "stongest" team. Is that going to matter to colleges that actually know how to evaluate talent? Some posts may also discount a player because he has not been on the field either because of too much talent or a coach that is not so great at his "second job". I honestly believe for whatever twisted reason, there are some that do not like to give credit when it is due. Maybe because they coach a "travel" or "showcase" team and they could not get the kid to play for them or maybe because they are a parent and the player is playing in front of their kid. I agree with you oldhand that it needs to stay positive. However, some think that they are not being negative but when you specifically say that a team is not a contender because they only have two pitchers, and them name the two, what are they really saying about the rest of the pitching staff? You might as well call them out by name. To most of us, it is the same thing.

I apologize for the controversy, didn't mean an explosion this way.

My point about Tucker's two pitchers was that while those two are quality arms, the combos at other schools, particularly the triumvirate at Godwin, are a notch above and I personally believe that will hold them back at the end of it.

Certainly Deep Run needs Brooks to get back on track for them to be overtake Godwin.

Right now, it seems Godwin has a leg up with the amount + quality of arms they have, combined with their recent hitting surge. Biddix has been outstanding the past few games.

As everyone else has echoed, these last two-three weeks will be very interesting.

You're not the one who exploded.

quote:

Originally posted by cman1012:
I apologize for the controversy, didn't mean an explosion this way.

My point about Tucker's two pitchers was that while those two are quality arms, the combos at other schools, particularly the triumvirate at Godwin, are a notch above and I personally believe that will hold them back at the end of it.

Certainly Deep Run needs Brooks to get back on track for them to be overtake Godwin.

Right now, it seems Godwin has a leg up with the amount + quality of arms they have, combined with their recent hitting surge. Biddix has been outstanding the past few games.

As everyone else has echoed, these last two-three weeks will be very interesting.

cman-"Hair short of pitching after Engler/Gorman." So you meant a hair short with Engler/Gorman?? Just to make sure who you are trashing. The 2 main guys or the rest of the pitching staff at Tucker??

As for exploding, I do not think you have experienced that.

BTW-Who do they have catching over there at Deep Run?

I think we need a bit thicker skin around here.

One thing is for sure...they don't handicap the district title races or the district tournament based on what we have to say on message boards. It will all be settled on the field. Does the best team always win? Certainly not in a single elimination format but that's ok. Regardless, nothing will be won or lost on the HSBBW Virginia forum.

quote:

Originally posted by wahoos80:

quote:

Originally posted by cman1012:
I apologize for the controversy, didn't mean an explosion this way.

My point about Tucker's two pitchers was that while those two are quality arms, the combos at other schools, particularly the triumvirate at Godwin, are a notch above and I personally believe that will hold them back at the end of it.

Certainly Deep Run needs Brooks to get back on track for them to be overtake Godwin.

Right now, it seems Godwin has a leg up with the amount + quality of arms they have, combined with their recent hitting surge. Biddix has been outstanding the past few games.

As everyone else has echoed, these last two-three weeks will be very interesting.

cman-"Hair short of pitching after Engler/Gorman." So you meant a hair short with Engler/Gorman?? Just to make sure who you are trashing. The 2 main guys or the rest of the pitching staff at Tucker??

As for exploding, I do not think you have experienced that.

BTW-Who do they have catching over there at
Deep Run?

I really wasn't trying to bash anyone. Engler/Gorman are both quality arms, I was just commenting on how I personally don't think they have enough after them. That's not a knock on, or I didn't mean it to be, Gonzalez, Redshaw, or whoever else has pitched for them, I have no doubt they are solid arms, work hard, and are good kids.

It always amazes me that the same guys who'll hang over the fence down the right field line and chew the fat all day, will go on the internet and lose their cool because someone had EXACTLY THE SAME CONVERSATION on a web board.

All we're doing here is some amateur prognosticating on how things might turn out. Of course, in a few weeks, most if not all of us will have been proved to have defective crystal balls. But in the meantime, such discussions are part of being a fan.

While it could be interpreted that you "Weren't trying to trash anyone", its also clear that you do not think too fondly of the Tucker staff after Engler/Gorman.
Any regular baseball guy could imply the same thing about any of these other teams.
Who does Godwin after their main 3 guys? I know a few of them, but I would never call them out as being "A hair short" on Pitching after thoe 3 main pitchers. Thats insulting to anyone outside of Garrett/Stephens/Lees. It simply implies that while they may be OK, they aren't capable of "closing the door" or putting the fans mind at ease, so to speak.
Who does DR have after Brooks/Boyle? We've seen a few of these kids, but its always against what would be perceived as lesser competition, and quite frankly, how well have they done? Do they have a shut-down guy out of the pen? Maybe, but I haven't seen anyone out of the pen that has been a shut-down guy.
Same with Hermitage, Freeman, PH, Etc.

It all boils down to you calling out the Tucker boys. Why didn't you say the same about any of the other teams? Because DR has 10 arms?? Whoever they may be, they aren't being used correctly, nor are they being effective as a relief P. Who is DR's closer? Who is Godwin's? Who is Hermitage's? Who is Freeman's? I am positive that NONE of them have been dominant-I've seen all of those teams numerous times. Thanks for apologizing for causing a stir, but thats not necessary. I don't think most of us mind a stir. I do think that most of us mind a comment that is either directly, or indirectly directed at a kid playing HS ball.
Thats why I have chimed in here-no other reason.

Midlo saying someone exploded is ridiculous.
Don't make a point on an open forum like this that anyone can see that will imply something at a minimum, and due to anyone, or as it seems in this case, several people questionning both your motives and thoughts, and call that an explosion. That simply was not the case.

While I understand the point about having thick skin, we are all humans on here with either coaching experience with these kids/families, a player involved at a local HS, or someone that knows a kid/family that currently participates.
I am a loyalist and always have been, and if you make a comment that is either unfounded or uninformaed, I will call you on it. If you disagree, I will respect the heck out of that. However, when you involve innocent kids that are never seeing nor are part of this forum, you've taken it to a new level.

Just my humble view of things....

Wow! A lot of activity on here. What amazes me is how the same guys are at all these games, several of which are played at the same darn time! The same people that are clearly from a particular HS always bating posters to trash out the teams that they perceive to be contenders. Starting threads when other schools play eachother and sit back and watch the crossfire. I guess one thing we (those of us that have the luxury to get on the HSBW all day every day) should be thankful for is either working for ourselves or having one slack boss!

quote:

that anyone can see that will imply something at a minimum, and due to anyone, or as it seems in this case, several people questionning both your motives and thoughts

I didn't imply anything. Some of the players discussed above are kids I've been lucky enough to have play for my team at one time or another. Others, including at least three whom I praised by name above, are kids I tried to get but who chose to play elsewhere, to my regret. In no instance did I single out any player for criticism, though some apparently took it as a strong insult to note that one team on the whole might not be as strong as other teams on the whole.

I'm not into conspiracy theories. I don't have any hidden agendas. I'm just watching a lot of ball games and trying to remain a fan.

Pirates45-

Tucker was discussed specifically because this topic was originally started based on the JR Tucker at Godwin game. I don't think anyone ever intended to single them out. I don't think anyone has crossed the line here.

Besides that, you apparently didn't like Tucker being bashed, so you responded by bashing some other teams in the Colonial. So you have no problem with bashing...just don't single Tucker out in a topic about Tucker? I don't follow

Emanski--

I did not intend to bash anyone. While I understand that this was a Tucker thread, and thus the comments, I am simply saying not to call out anyone in general or specific.
I can assure you that if the same thing had been said about Godwin's P's, or Hermitage, Deep Run-whoever, I would've said the same thing.

I likely went a bit far in some details, but thats not what was meant. My intention as I have repeated a couple times, I don't appreciate anyone being singled out individually, nor a unit, be it Infielders, Outfielders, bullpens, bench. We should all feel that way.

While this is better than calling kids out specifically by name, lets just say that you Coached a kid in the past or your nephew playes at Patrick Henry that was their #1 guy. Lets then say there is a PH game thread and I said "Man, I like Patrick Henry, but they have no starting pitching at all" Thats simply not a comment that belongs out here.
I just don't agree with making statements like that, be it Tucker, Godwin, PH, DR, whoever.
All my statements meant were, if you can say it about one team, why don't you say it about another? I singled no one out and never would. I made the same generalizations that others did, and now you are saying what I did was wrong. That was my point exactly.
I'm not meaning two wrongs make a right, I simply don't want any kid being called out or criticized on here. Generally, as a starting unit, as a bullpen, whatever.
I know many of these kids well in the area, and I would defend any of them.
I am far from claiming I know it all_in fact, I'll gladly admit I don't know nearly as much as many.
For the record, I am against bashing any kid, team or unit.
Debates are fine-all for them.
Just think it should stay positive.
Midlo-I did not mean you were implying anything, I was talking about prior comments in which you mentioned someone had exploded.
If I am wrong for defending a unit of 4-6 kids, I'm sorry.