Any updates on the juco eligibility change? Last I heard it was only for players that would graduate this year getting an extra year. Anyone have any insights or thoughts? Thanks!
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NJCAA eligibility or NCAA eligibility?
@Coletrain14 posted:Any updates on the juco eligibility change? Last I heard it was only for players that would graduate this year getting an extra year. Anyone have any insights or thoughts? Thanks!
As of now the ruling you referenced is the latest thing. And it states that “any player whose NCAA eligibility is scheduled to run out in 2025, and previous played at least one year in a non-NCAA program (NJCAA or NAIA), has an additional year of eligibility if they want it.” There has been a lot of confusion about this. The date that the House Settlement Ruling is due to come out is April 7. Put that date on your calendar.
Thanks for the update!!
Kid that we know. Went to D3 freshman year and barely played. Sophomore year he rostered at the D3 but didn't play at all. Now he's a junior. But, apparently he transferred to a Juco this past fall and is playing there now. How does a college junior with 2 seasons of D3 on his record enroll in a Juco?
@Francis7 posted:Kid that we know. Went to D3 freshman year and barely played. Sophomore year he rostered at the D3 but didn't play at all. Now he's a junior. But, apparently he transferred to a Juco this past fall and is playing there now. How does a college junior with 2 seasons of D3 on his record enroll in a Juco?
That happens all the time, they count his second year as a redshirt.
At D3 if you practice with the team during the season, it counts as a year of eligibility, even if you don't get into a game.
If you didn't practice with the team, I guess it could be called a redshirt.
NCAA and NJCAA are two different organizations with two different sets of rules on eligibility. A season that would count as a season of participation under NCAA rules doesn't necessarily count under NJCAA rules. Namely a season where the athlete never appears in a game regardless of whether they practiced with the team doesn't count under NJCAA rules.
Forget baseball eligibility. Other things going on if you're in college for 2 years and can still go to a community college your 3rd year.
@nycdad posted:Forget baseball eligibility. Other things going on if you're in college for 2 years and can still go to a community college your 3rd year.
It’s all about the benjamins
@auberon posted:NCAA and NJCAA are two different organizations with two different sets of rules on eligibility. A season that would count as a season of participation under NCAA rules doesn't necessarily count under NJCAA rules. Namely a season where the athlete never appears in a game regardless of whether they practiced with the team doesn't count under NJCAA rules.
This must be how it's possible for him to be there. Thanks.
@nycdad posted:Forget baseball eligibility. Other things going on if you're in college for 2 years and can still go to a community college your 3rd year.
The crazy part is that he's not that good. Really nice kid and family. But, to be candid and honest, he's not a high level player. He's 21 now and has less than 10 college games played in his career and the results for him in those games was horrendous (back in 2023) and probably a big reason why he didn't see game action in 2024. And, this was at a really low level D3.
@Francis7 posted:The crazy part is that he's not that good. Really nice kid and family. But, to be candid and honest, he's not a high level player. He's 21 now and has less than 10 college games played in his career and the results for him in those games was horrendous (back in 2023) and probably a big reason why he didn't see game action in 2024. And, this was at a really low level D3.
All the changes that are coming to college baseball are designed to do a lot of things. The barriers of entry will be more difficult and IMO kids like the one you described will be forced out if college baseball. The skill level required to play D1 college baseball at the highest level (top 50 programs) is going up every day. As those programs let players go, and they relocate to lesser D1s, D2s, D3s, JuCos, and NAIA schools, all of those divisions will get better. And good current players in those divisions will be at risk of losing their positions. Lesser players in those divisions are going to lose their roster spots. There are currently no roster limits in D2 baseball but I would not be surprised if we don’t see that happen pretty soon.
I think roster limits at any level would be good for the players to at least reduce the number of players deceived into thinking they have a chance of actually seeing the field when they don't. But I'd be surprised if any level below D1 institutes roster limits.
D1 has limits to prevent the top schools from hoarding all of the talent and promote some semblance of parity. And now with no scholarship limits the D1 roster limits serve as de facto scholarship limits.
Too many D2 schools have made bloated athletic teams to fill admissions slots part of their business model. In 2023 there were 53 D2 schools with over 10% of the entire male student population on the baseball team. They'd be giving up a lot of tuition dollars if they instituted roster limits. And the schools are the ones who make the rules.
@auberon posted:Too many D2 schools have made bloated athletic teams to fill admissions slots part of their business model. In 2023 there were 53 D2 schools with over 10% of the entire male student population on the baseball team. They'd be giving up a lot of tuition dollars if they instituted roster limits. And the schools are the ones who make the rules.
Wow, had no idea. That's absolutely crazy
@auberon posted:I think roster limits at any level would be good for the players to at least reduce the number of players deceived into thinking they have a chance of actually seeing the field when they don't. But I'd be surprised if any level below D1 institutes roster limits.
D1 has limits to prevent the top schools from hoarding all of the talent and promote some semblance of parity. And now with no scholarship limits the D1 roster limits serve as de facto scholarship limits.
Too many D2 schools have made bloated athletic teams to fill admissions slots part of their business model. In 2023 there were 53 D2 schools with over 10% of the entire male student population on the baseball team. They'd be giving up a lot of tuition dollars if they instituted roster limits. And the schools are the ones who make the rules.
D2's are also now starting to make a BIG run at D1 drop downs. My son got calls from 3 D2's over the break wanting to recruit him. One of his friends who was cut at a Big10 school is now at a D2 instead of a Juco.
@Buckeye 2015 posted:Wow, had no idea. That's absolutely crazy
It's even crazier for the schools with football. There are 106 D2 schools with over 10% of the male student population on the football team. 38% of the male students are on the football team at Wheeling University. And it will only get crazier next year when the lower D1 roster limits go into effect.
Data pulled from the Excel file available at: https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/datafile/list
@Master P posted:D2's are also not starting to make a BIG run at D1 drop downs. My son got calls from 3 D2's over the break wanting to recruit him. One of his friends who was cut at a Big10 school is now at a D2 instead of a Juco.
I know more than a few from my son's grad year who went D1 and who are now D2 as a junior. We also know one who went D1 and is now D3 as a junior.
I 100% believe there should be roster limits at all levels. Otherwise I would think it’s only about the money. Unless you do something like you can have as many kids as you want but they must all be on scholarship.
I believe history will point to the portal as the beginning of the downfall of sports in America. I hope I am wrong…
Bloated rosters in NAIA, too, at least in my neck of the woods. One program has 79 players with 49 on the reserve team. Another has 67 players and brought in only 3 freshman (son played with 2 of them) and rosters 4 sophomores...
I don't care how many players a team at any given level carries, but I do sometimes wonder whether people who go play on large teams know what to expect. If they do know the roster size, it's just like doing any other extracurricular for fun, alongside your education. Like a large fraternity devoted to baseball?
You pay for travel ball (unless you're so good that the team takes you for free), this is paying to be on a team + get a college degree.
Even pre-pandemic, lots of D1 players dropped down to lower levels. The 50% number often quoted is not far off.
Therein lies the rub—how many recruits are actually told what to expect? Many private schools aren’t cheap, and if they rely on athletics to keep the doors open, chances are the academics aren’t particularly strong either. If recruits are given full disclosure—that the players who actually see the field are typically D1 drop-downs and juco transfers, while they’ll be paying $40k–$80k per year to have their name on a college roster, won't travel to away games, and won't even practice with the players who see the field because you can't fit 70 players on one field—that's one thing. But I doubt many coaches are that upfront. For almost all of these players on the bottom half of a D2/D3/NAIA roster, it would make far more sense to acknowledge they won’t be going pro, attend State U, play on the club team or in a local NABA/MSBL league, and avoid taking on the extra $100k+ debt.
@anotherparent posted:I don't care how many players a team at any given level carries, but I do sometimes wonder whether people who go play on large teams know what to expect. If they do know the roster size, it's just like doing any other extracurricular for fun, alongside your education. Like a large fraternity devoted to baseball?
You pay for travel ball (unless you're so good that the team takes you for free), this is paying to be on a team + get a college degree.
Even pre-pandemic, lots of D1 players dropped down to lower levels. The 50% number often quoted is not far off.
Good analogy
@auberon posted:Therein lies the rub—how many recruits are actually told what to expect? Many private schools aren’t cheap, and if they rely on athletics to keep the doors open, chances are the academics aren’t particularly strong either. If recruits are given full disclosure—that the players who actually see the field are typically D1 drop-downs and juco transfers, while they’ll be paying $40k–$80k per year to have their name on a college roster, won't travel to away games, and won't even practice with the players who see the field because you can't fit 70 players on one field—that's one thing. But I doubt many coaches are that upfront. For almost all of these players on the bottom half of a D2/D3/NAIA roster, it would make far more sense to acknowledge they won’t be going pro, attend State U, play on the club team or in a local NABA/MSBL league, and avoid taking on the extra $100k+ debt.
This kind of makes me wonder how much research kids (and parents) do toward the schools they are interested in (or are interested in them). When my son started getting some calls from a few mid-majors I took a Sunday afternoon (without my son) and went to see a game between one of the better mid-majors and an average one.....just to see if I thought my son could play at that level. The game ended up being 16-14 on a day with the wind blowing out and both teams obviously out of pitching for the weekend. Not particularly good defense and other than the bloopers that went for HR's the bats weren't all that impressive. I went home and told my son about it (he didn't know I was going) and said "hey, if you want to play, go ahead, I really think you can handle it". He was the first commit in his class at his school. He ended up with a few others in his recruiting class that we knew from the previous years in travel ball. There were 2 that I really questioned if they were up to playing at that level. Both of their dads seemed to think they would be week 1 starters.....but neither made it thru the fall. If a parent doesn't feel comfortable trying to decide what level their son fits they need to find someone who knows their kid and knows baseball who they can trust to be truthful with them about their son's ability and where he can go if he wants to play college ball
@Buckeye 2015 posted:This kind of makes me wonder how much research kids (and parents) do toward the schools they are interested in (or are interested in them). When my son started getting some calls from a few mid-majors I took a Sunday afternoon (without my son) and went to see a game between one of the better mid-majors and an average one.....just to see if I thought my son could play at that level. The game ended up being 16-14 on a day with the wind blowing out and both teams obviously out of pitching for the weekend. Not particularly good defense and other than the bloopers that went for HR's the bats weren't all that impressive. I went home and told my son about it (he didn't know I was going) and said "hey, if you want to play, go ahead, I really think you can handle it". He was the first commit in his class at his school. He ended up with a few others in his recruiting class that we knew from the previous years in travel ball. There were 2 that I really questioned if they were up to playing at that level. Both of their dads seemed to think they would be week 1 starters.....but neither made it thru the fall. If a parent doesn't feel comfortable trying to decide what level their son fits they need to find someone who knows their kid and knows baseball who they can trust to be truthful with them about their son's ability and where he can go if he wants to play college ball
Bingo! This is spot on and it saved me a lot of typing.
Unfortunately I think there are many parents out there who are too comfortable evaluating level of play and have a very skewed/bias opinion of where their own child's abilities. That's also understandable though as we should think highly of our children.
Yes, that is the truth!
I have seen a number of kids at college camps and felt sad for them.
@Buckeye 2015 posted:This kind of makes me wonder how much research kids (and parents) do toward the schools they are interested in (or are interested in them).
As the parent of a 2025 I can safely tell you the VAST majority of parents and players have absolutely no clue about the current landscape of college baseball.
And I would have been just as lost if I hadn't stumbled across this board years ago. What most parents do know is they spent years worth of college tuition in the travel ball / training industry and that they at least want to get a social media post about their son's commitment.
After reading this board and being honest about my kids current talent level I explained to my son that JUCO is where he needed to be. When discussing this with other parents I often got the response of " JUCO? Really? You don't think he's good enough to at least play division two or three?" ....Deep breath and smile politely.
And I have quietly watched as many of their children have signed with D2's that have JV programs and 50 man rosters. Not to mention tuition that is laughable for the quality of the education.
So at the end of the day it's a combination of people don't know what they don't know. And moreover, they have already thrown so much money in to this pursuit they want to get anything they can out of it.
Yeah, a friend of mine thinks his kid is going D1. He got offended when some people in the know suggested his kid look at d3/d2 schools. He told me these people are idiots.
i felt really bad for this guy and his kid.
@DaddyBaller posted:As the parent of a 2025 I can safely tell you the VAST majority of parents and players have absolutely no clue about the current landscape of college baseball.
And I would have been just as lost if I hadn't stumbled across this board years ago. What most parents do know is they spent years worth of college tuition in the travel ball / training industry and that they at least want to get a social media post about their son's commitment.
After reading this board and being honest about my kids current talent level I explained to my son that JUCO is where he needed to be. When discussing this with other parents I often got the response of " JUCO? Really? You don't think he's good enough to at least play division two or three?" ....Deep breath and smile politely.
And I have quietly watched as many of their children have signed with D2's that have JV programs and 50 man rosters. Not to mention tuition that is laughable for the quality of the education.
So at the end of the day it's a combination of people don't know what they don't know. And moreover, they have already thrown so much money in to this pursuit they want to get anything they can out of it.
This is a great post. It’s honest. And it’s great that HSBBW has helped in your (and your son’s) journey. But it’s sad that so many people remain uninformed. Some of us deal with this on a daily basis and find it very frustrating. For whatever reason, baseball is the sport where players and parents consistently overvalue their abilities and projections. I just don’t see the same thing in football, basketball, etc. There are many reasons for this and most if them have to do with other people taking your money. The travel ball model is terrible for developing young baseball players. They don’t practice and they are not taught how to play the game (with rare exceptions). But you will certainly hear promises about what your continued participation (and fee payments) will do for your son. All the focus is on individual metrics with no instruction about how to apply the skills in game situations to help your team win. Many private instructors are absolute frauds. To be fair, some are excellent. But the wrong guy can set a kid (and your pocket book) back a long way. Social media plays a big part too. Scouting services (in particular) do as much harm as they do good. By harm I mean that they create false expectations by labeling a kid D1 in a Twitter post. Because in today’s world a HS kid better be getting MLB draft interest if he plans to go to a good D1 program as a freshman. I played JuCo baseball and I know what it did for me. One of my sons played JuCo baseball and I know what it’s done for him. I am 68 years old and my full time job now is coaching JuCo baseball. I am a big believer in JuCo and I always have been. And it amazes me that JuCo baseball is still misunderstood by so many. SMH