jumping catch

It was not a catch.......

For reference please the below definition of a catch from the OBR...

A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it; providing he does not use his cap, protector, pocket or any other part of his uniform in getting possession. It is not a catch, however, if simultaneously or immediately following his contact with the ball, he collides with a player, or with a wall, or if he falls down, and as a result of such collision or falling, drops the ball. It is not a catch if a fielder touches a fly ball which then hits a member of the offensive team or an umpire and then is caught by another defensive player. If the fielder has made the catch and drops the ball while in the act of making a throw following the catch, the ball shall be adjudged to have been caught. In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

The part that is applicable to your situation is this.......

In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

dropping the glove with the ball is not a voluntary release........no catch.... this should have been ruled as a no catch with no out recorded......

hope this helps........

Even if the ball,never made contact with the ground?

Thanks for the replies.

even if it never hit the ground....his release was not voluntary.......

So he apparently made a judgement call that he had possesion BEFORE he hit the ground and the catch was made before the glove came off,so at that point the runner could advance.


Does this sound like the call that was made or did he just blow it.Like every other call he made in that game. I really felt sorry for the kid,he had no buisness out there.

This was just a bad call period. Clearly neither call is supported by the rules... clearly made by inexperience and to make it worse, it sounds as if he was hounded by adult coaches in changing his mind.

This is one of the things about youth ball, you need umpires, so they put teenagers out there, which I support, but then let them go out and call games without proper education and support.

Then to top it off, there are youth coaches who bully the young umpires into changing calls and often intimidating them to the point of those young umpires leaving the game permanently........

shame actually......

tfox,
piaa_ump has given you an excellent description of catch/no catch.

It seems to me however, in reading your posts, that there are aspects of this play that need further explanation. So at the risk of telling you what you already know, I offer the following.

I assume that your situation had a base runner at second--I'll call him R2-- and no other runners. In this situation, no "force" is possible. By definition, the only way that there can be a force at second base is to have a runner at first (R1). In your situation, R2 is subject to appeal if he fails to retouch when an airborne ball is legally caught. Usually the appeal is the act of throwing the ball to the base which was not retouched. It seems similar to a force, because only the base and not the runner needs to be tagged to get an out, but as I'll describe below, the difference can be important.

The runner needs to retouch the base if the ball is caught, but he can leave the base as soon as the ball touches the fielder, or his uni, or his glove. The catch isn't established until control and voluntary release, but the runner can leave immediately upon contact betwen ball and fielder.

The difference between a force and appeal play is important in run-scoring situations. Rule 4.09 says that, among other things, no runs can score on a play when the batter makes the third out before reaching first base, or if the third out is a force out. So if there is 2 out with R1 and R3, R3 can't score if R1 is forced out at second, no matter when R3 crosses the plate. But with 1 out, R1 and R3, the batter hits a fly ball to left, R3 tags, R1 doesn't, and R3 crosses the plate before the defense doubles off R1 at first base: the run scores, because it was an appeal play at first, not a force out.

Thanks

That makes since.

I quess I knew that but really never thought about it that way.

I quess I need to tell my son to make sure his gloves stays on when he hits the ground.