Junior with below average GPA & ACT

In this day and age those grades make it tough to go Division I---think about a JUCO

I pushing him the JUCO direction. He is reluctly considering it, but knows his grades probably will not get in a D1 school.

Don't know your complete situation, but grades and scores can improve before senior year is over that sometimes make a difference.

If he did manage to get recruited and accepted by a D1 school, would he be able to stay academically eligible? If he has struggled to maintain a 2.3 in High School, imagine how much more difficult it will be on a big college campus with all the distractions and demands it will have. If he is not successful in the classroom, what will his next step be? I would think about JUCO or a smaller setting until he can prove himself with the books.

BaseballDad2 - welcome to the hsbbweb

Playing at a JUCO is playing college ball and that is a positive step to achieving his goal. Look, the overwhelming odds are that if he goes to a D1 initially he will sit on the bench a lot or be redshirted. At a JUCO, he can go to an environment where his chances to play may be greater (no juniors or seniors to compete with) and it sets him up to succeed academically. This is also a cost-effective strategy. After his time there is completed, he can transfer to a D1 and still achieve his goal

I am not an expert, but the 2.3 GPA may not be prohibitive of him playing D1 especially if that was earned in honors or college-level courses. You may want to have him attend an ACT and/or SAT prep course, do lots of practice tests, and see what type of test score he can achieve. A decent test score, plus improvements in the classroom over the next year seems like it ought to be enough. Ask him, how bad does he want it? If he says he wants it, tell him to prove it by working much harder in the classroom and working to improve his entrance exam scores. I believe grades are often a function of effort and no more. If there is any type of disability involved, he may be able to get some additional considerations from the University for that (i.e., they may agree to take him with stipulation for special tutoring, etc.). You can call schools he may be interested in and see what the chances are. Also, you can check out their websites for typical GPA and exam scores. A PAC 10 school like Arizona is probably going to be rather high imho.

Thank for the advice and words of encouragement. I agree the Juco route does have benifits. He is working on improving his gpa and he is taking the ACT/SAT course. He likes Arizona because that is where I went to school. In the early 80s they accepted you if you were a warm body and could pay the $300/semester tuition. I miss those days. I agree good grades are a function of effort and hard work. I will get him to read this message board and he will see others feel that same way as I do, that he needs to step up and work if he wants to meet his goal.

I know this is a late response but haven't been on for awhile. Your question hit me when I saw the GPA, which is exactly what my son had as a senior. My son also did not rack up a great SAT score as he was never really a good test taker. He also had a slight learning disability so we realized that the DI route was probably not going to happen. Plus I was fearful he would not be able to handle the academic challenges of a large school. I can understand why your son likes AU since we just played in Phoenix during spring break. We did go visit the campus and my son just loved their campus and their baseball field.
Let your son know that there are other schools that he can call home. We eventually settled on a DIII school with just under 3,000 students. He's a jr. now and has upped his GPA since day one. He knows the professors and they really do go out of their way to connect with the students and are glad to meet them outside class if they want some help. He's been a starter since he got there and possibly could have opted to move on to a DI school but instead has found his "home" and has blossomed into a young man that I'm proud to say is my son. You may be surprised how his idea of the ideal school can change when he becomes a sr. For ours, that seemed to be when the reality settled in that DI was not the right route for him. DI is not for everyone even though that may be their dream. Hopefully, he'll reach his goal but if not then it was not meant to be but he'll find the right place anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by PAbbMom:
We eventually settled on a DIII school with just under 3,000 students.

With all due respect to PAbbMom's post, I wouldn't want you to get the impression that the lower divsions in the NCAA require less academically from their students. It doesn't work that way. My son will also be playing for a DIII school with less than 3000 students and where his 3.4 GPA and barely above average SAT's qualified him for many DI schools, it barely "cut the mustard" with the DIII school he settled on. I'm just saying.

I would agree with PopTime, not all DIIIs are created equal. Some of the most academically rigorous schools in the country are D3s, and while the core course GPA and ACT requirements don't apply to them for initial athletic eligibility, admission could be a problem.

The GPA is calcluated in the "core" courses, not overall. For example, my son is in a special arts magnet program where he has taken advanced studies in art for four years...none of those classes count toward his "core" GPA for determining eligibility. The ACT is also done as a sum of all of the sections. While there is a sliding scale for D1 (the higher your ACT the lower the GPA can be and vice versa) there is no sliding scale for D2. Minimum Core GPA is 2.0 and sum ACT score is 68.

Hope this helps, good luck!

Colleges will also look at the caliber of the high school. If your high school has academically challenge curriculum, the coach may be able to work something out with admissions. After all, it IS all about keeping players eligible..not just to get them into the school..but so they can actually play college-level baseball. Therefore, if your son took demanding core cores but did mediocre work at a very challenging high school perhaps this speaks to his character a bit more than a player who went to a mediocre high school and could still only crank out mediocre academics.

My son attends a college prep school they have only Honor and AP courses and his core GPA is 2.5 unweighted does anyone know how a DI school would weight his grades vs an unweighted gpa?

Whoa, Beenthere!

It seems to be that you're jumping to a lot of conclusions. First of all, he may not have made any D's or F's. He may simply be a straight C student (with a few B's thrown in to increase his average from a 2.0 to 2.3). With those grades, he would be eligible to play ball at high school every week.

The 14 ACT score is a concern. However, he may have an undiagnosed learning disability that hampers his test-taking skills. Perhaps one-on-one tutoring could help him get his score to an 18-20.

And let's not point any fingers at the parents, because we don't know all the facts. They may have been more concerned and involved in their son's academic life than you or I could ever imagine.

Wow..Beenthere. Heavy stuff. Sounds like it hit a sore spot with you.

BaseballDad2: good luck. Your son will be fine. He's got a dad who's looking out for him. Lots of kids don't even have that.

BaseballDad2,

Please do realize that the opinions expressed by BeenthereIL above do not reflect the thoughts of the majority of parents posting here. Personally I also don't think several of his statements reflect the positive and helpful intent of this site. I think you've gotten lots of good advice above, but it's frustrating to me to read a message that says "your son has gotten poor grades and ACT score so you must be a bad parent and the kid must be a lazy goof-off". I know those weren't the exact words, but that's how the message reads. "Real world advice" can be given without insulting and assuming.

To continue my editorializing (sorry), I am concerned when our forums sometimes send a message that HS students with average or below average grades must be lazy and could be A students if only they would apply themselves. Some kids are excellent athletes AND excellent students, and we seem to have a high proportion of those kids represented here. But some kids are just plain not athletic and not good at sports, while some other kids are not naturally good at academics. Why is it that we would not ridicule the first group, but might make judgmental statements about the second group? Okay, end of editorializing.

I agree that JUCO might be a good option for your son if his grades and ACT scores do not improve a lot, though it would definitely be worthwhile to work on bringing the ACT score up. That is something your son might improve greatly with a summer of diligent work, while bringing up his overall HS GPA would not happen very quickly. Most DI's might be out of the question, but perhaps there are some DII and DIII colleges that would work with your son. Ask some of them the average ACT score of current freshmen. My academically challenged son had a GPA similar to your son's, but an ACT of 24. We knew DI was not an option, but he applied and was accepted at two DII's and one DIII, all of which had average freshman ACT scores of 22-24. He chose the DIII and is very happy there. His college grades are similar to what he earned in HS, just above a C, and he will take 4-1/2 to 5 years to get his bachelor's degree, while playing baseball.

Think about getting your son some help with ACT preparation this summer and scheduling a re-take in the early Fall. It could make a big difference in his options.

Julie

This is getting ridiculous.

I've deleted my posts.

No sense in having different points of view on anything.

-------

I had no such quote, MN-Mom, in the body of my posting.

My son had a 1.9 gpa in HS but good SAT's. Got into a nice small D3 school in the northeast and is doing really well, and playing baseball. I suggest your son work on his SAT's, that seems to get noticed when applying. Also you can take the SAT's over and over again and take the best scores in each section. Also don't you need a core gpa of 2.0 to get NCAA eligibility for D1 and D2 schools?

Dang, I missed it.

Heres something else to look at. If your son is a good player at JUCO and can keep with grades up,he could sign with a D1 schoool for his senior or junior year. If he goes to a d1 school for 1 or 2 years and does well there(grade wise and playing wise) he could get his degree and get drafted and play in the minors(hopefully make it to the majors). Unlike the rule for a transfer,a JUCO player can come straight to the college in that year and play. Thats the road I would go down. Also what JUCO schools are recruiting him? I know one really small JUCO school who loves baseball(because its the only sport the college has). Southwest Virginia Community College in Richlands,VA is the school. Check in about it,alot of people love the college.

quote:

Originally posted by PopTime:
Dang, I missed it.

just a few condecending judgemental posts by an Ivy League parent. No biggie.

BaseballDad2, My son's GPA back in HS ended up only being around a 2.5 or so. However, his ACT score was much higher. There is a sliding scale used for clearinghouse eligibility. With this GPA and ACT, he would never be clearinghouse eligible. With a 14 on his ACT, he would not get accepted into any college I know of. I think the others are giving great advice when they say he needs to focus heavily on bringing that ACT score up. He doesn't have to do a lot to bring the GPA up to what would be acceptable to get admitted to a school. He does need to bring the ACT score up dramatically though. The prep class should help him. Also, I'm sure you realize you can pay a bit extra and receive his answers from the ACT, so he can see the areas he's struggling with.

Also, know that your son is in very good company. Not every kid graduates HS with a 4.0 and ACT of 30 something! Most of these very average kids go on to do just as well in college though! Best of luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:

quote:

Originally posted by PopTime:
Dang, I missed it.

just a few condecending judgemental posts by an Ivy League parent. No biggie.

I hope you didn't mean it the way it sounds.
Trust me when I say I don't think myself or my son as any better than anyone else for going to an Ivy school. Please don't stereotype.

BTW, I also missed it.

Frank,
I missed it too, but knowing Dad04, it was not directed towards you!

BaseballDad2,
Welcome. You have gotten some great advice.
Your son can still follow his dream by attending Arizona. I would strongly suggest that you put the challenge to your son, he can continue the challenge by attending JUCO to improve his game and his grades. There is nothing that is written in stone that says a player MUST attend a D1 school straight out of HS.

Best of luck!

Frank...Dad04 meant it exactly as it sounds. I can handle his cynicism.

I give people OPINIONS based on my experiences.

Why people would criticize someone who gives his/her opinions based on their experiences, I'll never know. My opinions are borne of my experiences--no more, no less.

I've put 6 children through college/university with a 7th left to go, so I think I know something about the collegiate testing and admittance process.

If someone wants people to feed them "feel good" stuff in the scenario presented, they've achieved their goal. I deleted my posting which basically disagreed with most of the "politically correct" presentations.

----------

One of the best sites I've found about admissions and testing is: collegeconfidential.com

Beenthere, I don't think any of us were trying to give "feel good, politically correct" answers. Rather, we were trying to give suggestions that might help this kid get into college.

My objection was the way you seemed to slam the priorities, lack of effort and disinterest of the player and his parents without knowing any of the facts behind the low grades and test scores. You seemed to assume the worst, rather than the best, about this player and his parents. Too bad Paul Harvey's not around so we can hear "the rest of the story."

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
"feel good" stuff

Where in MY post was the "feel good stuff"?

Great responses. Here is a question that I have:

Let's say, player has DI ability. GPA as a Freshman bounces around the 2.5 - 3.0 range.

Is it too late to turn the grades around?

Also, does anyone know what the ballpark GPA and SAT/ACT for incoming Freshman would be at say Cortland State or Oneonta?

CNY, A freshman has plenty of time to raise his GPA. He's only beginning his HS journey. As far as the average GPA for the schools you mentioned, go to collegeboard.com and you can look up all the info you need.

My son and I recently heard the head coach of a Top 25 D1 program speak. He remarked that the average SAT of his players is about 1000 and that he has some players who scored 900 or 950 -- and this is at a school that is fairly highly regarded for its academics and is somewhat selective in the admissions process (13,000 applications for 1800 openings). Made me realize that you don't necessarily have to be a future brain surgeon to play college baseball.

About 2/3 of their players made at least a 3.0 last semester. The school goes to great lengths to ensure the academic success of its players and I would imagine there are many other programs out there that do the same thing.

Frank, "an Ivy League parent" is singular, not plural. I apologize if you took offense, but I'm not sure how you can judge my response to posts you can't even read.

The posts were so scathingly, judgementaly critical and elitist the author obviously felt remorseful enough to erase them, yet persists in pronouncing their validity and importance as further amplified somehow by a proclivity for reproductivity. I am really confused now.

Dad04,

No problem. Whether I read Been's post or not doesn't matter, I just wasn't sure why you needed to quantify "Ivy League parent" as opposed to "parent".

04Dad....Let me know when a kid gets into a D1 school and gets a chance to play for the baseball program with a 14 ACT, without having to go to a juco; or, sitting out a year or so.

"Frank, "an Ivy League parent" is singular, not plural. I apologize if you took offense, but I'm not sure how you can judge my response to posts you can't even read."

See, Frank, nothing constructive, just cynicism.

Beenthere,

I don't think anyone was objecting to your opinion that a 14 ACT would make it difficult to get into a DI. The two or three sentences that judged and insulted the kid and the parent were what most who objected probably found offensive - at least that's what made me feel a need to say something to the original poster.

Someone who has raised 6 or 7 kids certainly ought to understand the challenges of parenting AND that each kid is different. What works for one may not work for the other. The suggestion that the kid quit baseball and concentrate solely on academics isn't perceiving that it may be quite possible the kid does BETTER academically whilst playing sports and should be supported academically while continuing to play what he obviously loves. I would think any parent who had participated in 6 or 7 childhoods, as the poster claims, would really have a better handle on kids in general and be a bit more tolerance for those still learning the ropes. For those of us who have only raised 2 kids, the suggestions, advice and commentary on this website is invaluable. I certainly look to those who have traveled this road much more extensively than I. Commentary reflecting the spirit of baseball, the good life of raising healthy, successful boys and enjoying watching them grow is what I look for--not an attempt to judge one form of parenting over another.

Amen, Newcomer! I couldn't have said it better myself!

Newcomer....That's great. Another feel good post.

As I've said earlier...Let me know when a kid with a 14 ACT and a 2.3 gpa gets into a D1 school and plays baseball without having to go to a juco or spend some time red-shirting at some program to work on his grades.

A parent came to this site and asked for advice. I gave it to him/her from my perspective and was "jumped on".

Had nothing to do with "parenting".

It was advice given to a parent who was looking for advice re a specific situation given the facts that that parent chose to share with us.

BT,
You are absolutley correct, a 14 ACT,2.3 GPA most likely will not get the player into a D1 program, no one disagrees.

It's not what you said but how you said it. I remember about 4 years ago when I first came to this site, you were not very nice. You made some comments regarding the school where my son would be playing. Some things one never forgets. I understand now that is your "way" of posting, but many here do not know that, and regardless of the situation the poster has presented, when one comes asking for advice, regardless of the harsh realities involved, maybe we have to be a bit more understanding.

With all of your parenting, how about starting some useful positive recruiting/college topics instead of negative slamming? From my understanding, you may have some experience to share with folks that may be quite helpful.

TPM

Looks like the original poster hasn't posted here or any other place on the website since April 19.

In response to my lack of posts since April 19th. My wife reminded me of the tough love approach didn't work on our son. Basically it drove further away from the family, got him more stressed out and his grades suffered. Today we teach him there are consequences to every action he takes in life. Furthermore, he has to take responsibility for those consequences. She has further reminded me that he is 17 doesn't care to drink, smoke, is very respectful to others (especially females), hangs out with other good kids and is a member of young life Christian youth group. He is basically a good kid who does well in class and poorly on tests. We have and will be working with him concerning prep courses for the ACT and SAT. In addition, he has owned up to the fact he may not make a D1 school coming out of High School. I believe it is up to him to make his path in life to college and beyond. He will always have both his parents pushing and supporting him along this path. All who have posted have given great advice whether it was matter of fact or sup portative suggestions. While some would see me taking offense to comments made concerning parenting. I feel we have done a good job and prefer not to spend a lot of time worrying how others perceive our family. As final note in a free and open society we are putting way too much pressure on our youth to achieve a number such as GPA or ACT. This is foolish thinking, these kids are free thinking individuals that mature intellectually at different ages, we are missing the big picture. I have seen several good kids that have a 2.0 or less in high school have a 3.0 & higher in College and make the 4.0 high school kids look stupid. Its all about figuring out what the young adult has a passion for in college/life. Once he or she figures it out, typically you will find they will perform and get the grade.

quote:

As final note in a free and open society we are putting way too much pressure on our youth to achieve a number such as GPA or ACT. This is foolish thinking, these kids are free thinking individuals that mature intellectually at different ages, we are missing the big picture. I have seen several good kids that have a 2.0 or less in high school have a 3.0 & higher in College and make the 4.0 high school kids look stupid. Its all about figuring out what the young adult has a passion for in college/life. Once he or she figures it out, typically you will find they will perform and get the grade.

Great perspective, BaseballDad2. My husband was a very average student in high school and had a 1.4 GPA after his freshman year in college, due to way too much partying plus a disinterest in his "boring" core classes. As he began taking courses in his major, which was his passion, he made tons of A's and B's, but his low grades in other classes kept his GPA from getting all that high.

About 3 years after graduation, he had a number of successful interviews for a large, well-known pharmaceutical company and was sent to the regional manager's office for "rubber stamp" approval. After looking at my husband's college transcript, the manager had serious reservations about hiring him. He was quite concerned that my husband would be unable to learn the massive amounts of pharmaceutical information needed for a sales job. He finally took a chance and hired him.

Fast forward 19 years and you'd be quite impressed to see all the Top-10% sales awards displayed on the shelf in his study! Like you said, when kids discover their passion, they will turn it around and find a way to excel.

Best wishes to your son!