Junior year h.s. class load

One other thought:  My youngest is now done with the HA college application process, and the family went through it twice in 3 years.  I think you have to accept that there is a large element of randomness involved.  Baseball actually helps take some of the craziness out of things, because most coaches will tell you straight up that you need X GPA and Y test scores; and if you meet those, they can get Admissions to do a pre-read of your HS transcript to tell you if it's good enough. 

If you apply as a non-athlete to an Ivy or similarly selective school, no one can give you similar advice.  Perfect grades and test scores may not get you in, while less-than-perfect may do the trick.  Much of this is totally beyond your control:  Do they have another applicant from your zip code who is slightly better on paper than you, or is the child of an alumnus, or checks some box they want for their class (left-handed oboist who speaks Farsi)?  Then this may not be your year. Did they take a kid for this class from your county whose grandparent has a building on campus named after him?  There may be no spot for you.

Have your kid talk about his schedule with a guidance counselor and/or a trusted teacher who knows his capabilities, then make the "how many APs" decision as best you can and don't look back.  It will not be the factor that determines whether you get into Harvard. 

@Chico Escuela The Harvard coach said they denied over four thousand 1600's last year. I couldn't believe there were that many perfect scores period, much less denied by Harvard. You are absolutely right about the randomness. I talked to a Harvard student a couple years ago who told me he didn't even bother applying. He'd been accepted to a couple other Ivies and was happy with them. He happened to win a prestigious debate championship where someone from Harvard admissions was in attendance. She handed him her card and to contact her directly to get admitted quickly. He said within 2 weeks he was accepted and had all the aid he needed to make it worthwhile. 

Eldest son, 2018, took 5 AP's during Junior year. Most of them were pretty tough, with AP CS and AP Econ being the easiest(for him). He was on the Varsity BB team,  was really into the weight room, and was social by nature. He found his Jr. course load to be pretty hard, but he got through it, and, together with the other AP courses he took (13 in total) was able to get credit for an entire full year of credit at his University. In retrospect, he could have taken one or two less AP courses and saved himself some stress.

  Fast forward to Son #2, who will be a Junior next year. He will only be taking 3 AP courses, at our urging. We don't want to see him put himself through the stress that our eldest did. Our feeling is that it is better that he gets better marks taking 3 AP's(9 total), rather than (potentially) overloading himself. He is also a BB player, and is a workout fanatic.

 Both boys are self starters. We have provided encouragement and our thoughts, but, in general, both are driving the bus when it comes to their education. We are very lucky.

2022 son, in all gifted classes, and a program which gives him 7 classes/day instead of 6 (of course, 1 is weight training). He is taking AP Bio & AP World this year. As someone who is not an avid reader, World has had struggles at times. 

He’s only taking AP physics his Jr year. Planning on 3 AP classes his Senior year, giving him 6 total. 

@Sennais it a public or private school? I think the AP World is just as much about the teacher. My son ended up watching YouTube videos and learned more from them than in his class. There is a guy named Steve Heimler that has some great content

Some great posts here.  Great discussion. 

Remember the AP context is for college baseball recruiting....I want to double click on that.  Coaches don't care so much if you score a 1600 SAT or 1300 SAT as long as the recruit meet their athletic needs & requirements.   At least in terms of the Ivys (that I'm most familiar with),  the total number of APs isn't going to matter so much with the Coach (which is your first stop in the ivy gauntlet) as it is with Admissions.   Yes, the recruit needs a minimum number of Aps but that doesn't mean you have to sign up for every AP class the school offers.   If the recruit meets (again) the needs and requirements it won't matter if he took 10 APs or 4 APs as long as the recruit can get a high grade, keep a high GPA, and demonstrate rigor to Admissions.

For the parent and student/recruit considering class load, I would take AP classes that I knew I could get a high grade in (no C's) and pass on those AP courses that I've had lower grades (or struggled with) in the past or aren't a good fit for the recruit.   For example, if I know my kid is a STEM guy I'm going to go for AP Chemistry, AP Physics, AP Calc but I'm going think twice on AP History, AP Spanish, AP English, whatever because of the workload...there is only so much time in the day.   I might consider taking AP History, AP Spanish, AP English, whatever for the recruits senior year after he has committed where it isn't going to possibly hurt the recruit as much.   Also, I would probably employ a slightly different strategy with some of the D3 HAs because they have fewer slots than the Ivys, and their admissions policies are slightly different.

As always, JMO.

@fenwaysouth posted:

Some great posts here.  Great discussion. 

Remember the AP context is for college baseball recruiting....I want to double click on that.  Coaches don't care so much if you score a 1600 SAT or 1300 SAT as long as the recruit meet their athletic needs & requirements.   At least in terms of the Ivys (that I'm most familiar with),  the total number of APs isn't going to matter so much with the Coach (which is your first stop in the ivy gauntlet) as it is with Admissions.   Yes, the recruit needs a minimum number of Aps but that doesn't mean you have to sign up for every AP class the school offers.   If the recruit meets (again) the needs and requirements it won't matter if he took 10 APs or 4 APs as long as the recruit can get a high grade, keep a high GPA, and demonstrate rigor to Admissions.

For the parent and student/recruit considering class load, I would take AP classes that I knew I could get a high grade in (no C's) and pass on those AP courses that I've had lower grades (or struggled with) in the past or aren't a good fit for the recruit.   For example, if I know my kid is a STEM guy I'm going to go for AP Chemistry, AP Physics, AP Calc but I'm going think twice on AP History, AP Spanish, AP English, whatever because of the workload...there is only so much time in the day.   I might consider taking AP History, AP Spanish, AP English, whatever for the recruits senior year after he has committed where it isn't going to possibly hurt the recruit as much.   Also, I would probably employ a slightly different strategy with some of the D3 HAs because they have fewer slots than the Ivys, and their admissions policies are slightly different.

As always, JMO.

Very solid advice. This was the route we went with our son and it’s worked out for him thus far.  Workload was demanding but never overwhelming and because he concentrated on subjects he’d already displayed proficiency in he wasn’t stuck grinding away at courses where he wasn’t as naturally proficient. Would also add that we put a lot of emphasis on his studying for standardized tests over the summer so he could get them out of the way earlier in the academic year. Everything got turned upside down this year on that front, but he got his tests done in the Fall and didn’t have to worry about them in Spring as baseball season approached.  And now AP tests coming up. So he can really focus on those. If standardized testing returns to normal schedule and importance next year (I suspect it will) it’s a major variable to consider.

One thing to add to fenwaysouth’s excellent advice:  From what I have seen, lots of HA kids start out thinking they want to play for an Ivy, but only a fraction of those can do so. That was my son. He got some interest from Ivies, but nothing panned out.  Instead he is going to a D3 that he’s very happy with.

Others who got further in the Ivy process can correct me if they disagree, but my observations were that for many top-tier academic D3s it is actually harder to get in (GPA and test score-wise) as a baseball player than at the Ivies. Many D3s apply the same academic criteria to athletes and non-, whereas Ivies do seem to loosen things a little. (Not saying it’s easy to meet that standard, just that it’s not quite like applying without sports as part of the portfolio.)

All of which is a long way of saying there are a lot of interlocking pieces. Taking challenging classes is important, but so is maintaining good grades (and mental health, and time and energy for baseball).  It has a way of working out.  And often not in the way you or your kid expected or thought you wanted—but with a good outcome nevertheless. 

I'll add a little to what fenwaysouth and Chico Escuela have posted. If Ivy is your target then go for it; take the most rigorous load you possibly can without negatively affecting your grades. But do so because you plan on applying to Ivy schools with or without baseball. If you get in without baseball you can always try to walk-on. And if walking on doesn't work then baseball was never in the cards for you at an Ivy school. But perhaps that's OK because Ivy was your goal and you got in! But if baseball AND academics are important then HA D3's certainly should be your target as well. Then you need to really balance the workload in a way that doesn't affect your grades. 

I support Chico's belief: I believe it is probably much easier to get into an Ivy school (w/ baseball) than it is to get into a HA D3. Ivy coaches have the ability to get ALL of their recruits through admissions--of course as long as they meet certain criteria--but I would bet that criteria is a bit lower for at least 2-4 out of 7 or 8 recruits. But of course those with the lower academics have to have really good baseball skills. The other recruits have to have really good academics (to offset those that don't) along with baseball skills coaches feel they need/want. But the key takeaway is this: if the Ivy coach offers, you will be admitted (of course you must maintain your current academics).

From what I understand, HA D3 coaches don't get a free pass for all of their recruits. In fact some may not get any help from admissions (Caltech). So those academics have to gain your admission without baseball.

Good post, Absorber.  A couple of additional thoughts--

You wrote "HA D3 coaches don't get a free pass for all of their recruits."  A few schools (Caltech and MIT are the ones I know of) don't give any coaches' "tips" to athletes--you just apply and take your chances of being one of the ~5% who get in.  That also means giving up the chance to get preferential admission at a different HA school as a baseball player.  Those are fantastic schools, but it must be tough to be a baseball coach for them.

I think most HA D3s (my son talked with coaches at 12 or 15 at one point or another) allow their coaches 3 to 5 (or a few more) admits each year.  Those kids have to meet admissions standards.  If a coach is interested, he will ask your son to send his transcript and test scores and will get a pre-read from the Admissions Office.  Admissions will tell the coach "no", "maybe" or "this applicant will probably be admitted."  "Maybe" means you can apply and take your chances with the rest of the applicant pool.  Getting a thumbs up on a pre-read isn't technically a guarantee, but it's close--especially if a coach has been at a school for a while and knows how things operate. 

Coaches told my son initially that he needed at least X test score and Y GPA (there is a little more flexibility on GPA)--the numbers depend on the school you are talking with.  Many coaches said the could let X and Y to go a little lower for one or two prized recruits each year (or every other year).  Coaches also were up front that minimums could go lower for recruits who were 1st generation college students or members of minority groups.  (I was surprised they were quite that up front, but they just asked my son flat out if he fit in either or both of those categories.)  If you don't meet the applicable minimums, coaches will tell you they aren't interested. 

You generally get pre-read results within a week or two.  A "yes" on the pre-read means you will likely be admitted if the coach uses one of his tips for you.  You do need to make sure the coach is not just saying "apply and if you get in, you can join the team." And it also may be that a coach tells you the pre-read was positive, but never offers you.  (You might have been number 6 on the depth chart and they used all 4 available tips on other candidates.)

I have not heard of other D3s doing this, but my son got a "likely letter" from admissions.  That was great--although it came a couple of weeks after the ED deadline had passed and he had submitted his application.  So, in effect he got admitted earlier than the ED decision date.  (Again, this was not formally binding.  But it was pretty secure.)   

Funny sto

@Chico Escuela posted:

Good post, Absorber.  A couple of additional thoughts--

You wrote "HA D3 coaches don't get a free pass for all of their recruits."  A few schools (Caltech and MIT are the ones I know of) don't give any coaches' "tips" to athletes--you just apply and take your chances of being one of the ~5% who get in.  That also means giving up the chance to get preferential admission at a different HA school as a baseball player.  Those are fantastic schools, but it must be tough to be a baseball coach for them.

 

Funny story: my son attended the Stanford Camp last summer and Coach Whitehead (HC Caltech) was his assigned coach. My son did not have any interest in Caltech but apparently the coach was interested. After discussing his academics he told him right away there was no possibility of him ever attending Caltech! So yes, it is VERY difficult for these coaches! We did give him the names of two players who played for and attended the #1 rated public HS in the country. I think he did follow through with them although one of them ended up committing to MIT and the other one committed to Swarthmore.

Good points by AB & Chico.  Call it purely "coincidental" and timely, but a relative of mine applied to a HA D3 where he/she played a sport.  Student had no trouble getting in but school as you can imagine was very expensive.  Able to get some academic $ but it was still high, even after meeting with admin/financial aid office.  They told the coach the student would love to attend and play but financially they have to move on.  Coach said to hold off any decisions for a little while longer.  A few weeks later grants/scholly $ were added, they became available.  Now made attending reasonable.  You still need the grades and test scores to get foot in door.  If finance is an issue, you never know.....call it "luck and timing", and how bad the coach wants you.

Just saw this.  It's about 2020s enrolling this fall, but 2021s may experience something similar:

Desperate for fall enrollees, colleges are luring students with campus perks and cold cash

https://www.washingtonpost.com...tml#comments-wrapper

@Chico Escuela posted:

Just saw this.  It's about 2020s enrolling this fall, but 2021s may experience something similar:

Desperate for fall enrollees, colleges are luring students with campus perks and cold cash

https://www.washingtonpost.com...tml#comments-wrapper

I'm good with Cold Cash 

What about hot cash?

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

@Sennais it a public or private school? I think the AP World is just as much about the teacher. My son ended up watching YouTube videos and learned more from them than in his class. There is a guy named Steve Heimler that has some great content

Public school, solid one. I definitely won’t put this on the teacher, but on Sennason. 

He (and we) learned the lesson. He will only taken APs that work in his strengths (STEM) moving forward.