What is a good throwing velocity from the field?
for a hs varsity player
and good 60 yard dash time
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quote:Originally posted by MeT:
What is a good throwing velocity from the field?
for a hs varsity player
and good 60 yard dash time
OF
Great: 90+
Above Ave: 85
Ave: 78-82
This is dependent on position:
Great: 6.6
Above Ave: 6.8-6.9
Ave: 7.0-7.2
were can I find these mumbers on the web, an other numbers and times were players should be at different ages. I would like to test or better yet set goals for our middle school teams and babe ruth teams for player to be at. throwing speeds, running speeds, 40, 60, home to 1st, 1st to 3rd, infield throws across the diamond, etc.
BOF,
I think those numbers are inflated both for throwing and running, especially in the running department for high school. I would be willing to bet that the average speed in the 60 is more like 7.6-7.7, and possibly even higher. 7.0 is pretty fast for the average speed, especially when you thing about how many high school teams there are in the country, how many big guys, bad athletes, etc.
I think those numbers are inflated both for throwing and running, especially in the running department for high school. I would be willing to bet that the average speed in the 60 is more like 7.6-7.7, and possibly even higher. 7.0 is pretty fast for the average speed, especially when you thing about how many high school teams there are in the country, how many big guys, bad athletes, etc.
Ironman, you are definitely correct about the running. My son is the fastest player on his HS team at 7.0, and they are a top team in a very large AAAA division. I am not saying 7.0 is extremely fast, but I have been to alot of showcases and there aren't alot of guys who are under that!
If you want to get a good reference point for different age groups and levels, go to Perfect Games website and check out the individual reports and scores from their showcases. You'll be able to see the times and velocities that the top rated guys put up, and then compare them as the scores go down. I think BOF is pretty accurate in his numbers assuming we are talking about competitive, high school varsity players.
The biggest problem I have is with the 60-yard dash.
My son's time has varied by .7 seconds within a 2 month period. Aside from the fact that teenagers have good and bad days, the conditions have so much to do with it. At the Stanford Camp, the start and finish are triggered by breaking a light beam, it is run on turf and players get multiple runs. Compare that to a camp he attended that was done on wet, spongy grass, slightly uphill, and the starter was a 70-year old man that said "GO" within about a half second either way from when he lowered his arm. 1 out of 50 prospects broke the 7.0 number at that camp.
I would actually have told my son to not run at that camp had I seen the conditions before hand.
My second gripe about the 60 is that it is irrelevent in baseball. You never have to run a straight line 60-yard dash unless you are an outfielder playing on a field with no outfield fence. I've seen many players run a great 30 or 40, but not do as well on the 60. Its a shame the recruiters are looking so closely at the 60, as they are missing some great burst speed players.
My son's time has varied by .7 seconds within a 2 month period. Aside from the fact that teenagers have good and bad days, the conditions have so much to do with it. At the Stanford Camp, the start and finish are triggered by breaking a light beam, it is run on turf and players get multiple runs. Compare that to a camp he attended that was done on wet, spongy grass, slightly uphill, and the starter was a 70-year old man that said "GO" within about a half second either way from when he lowered his arm. 1 out of 50 prospects broke the 7.0 number at that camp.
I would actually have told my son to not run at that camp had I seen the conditions before hand.
My second gripe about the 60 is that it is irrelevent in baseball. You never have to run a straight line 60-yard dash unless you are an outfielder playing on a field with no outfield fence. I've seen many players run a great 30 or 40, but not do as well on the 60. Its a shame the recruiters are looking so closely at the 60, as they are missing some great burst speed players.
You might be right on the speed. I have been told that College (D1) OF'rs are typically 6.8 - 6.9.
The problem is that you need to put players in their positions. Top of the order up the middle faster kids are 7.0 or below. Corner guys are 7.5 plus, Cathers are slugs..
so what is average?
You are correct I was referring to top level Ca Varsity.
The problem is that you need to put players in their positions. Top of the order up the middle faster kids are 7.0 or below. Corner guys are 7.5 plus, Cathers are slugs..
so what is average? You are correct I was referring to top level Ca Varsity.
My son is a SS/3rd/2nd with a 6.9 time at 2 Scout team tryouts. He's a 17 year old high school senior. Also he can throw well over 300 feet.
Blpfrnks, my son is an example of the 60 vs. 30 point you are making; runs 3.8 30, but 7.0 60. He can swipe alot of bags!
There are MLB players that can't run below a 7 and some that run a 60 at 8+/
Thank God they can hit.
Thank God they can hit.
The less time it takes a player to run from point A to point B, the better that player is. That doesn't mean you have to run any certain time to play at the highest level, it means if you improve those times you have become a more valuable player.
rocketmom,
There are many who run short distances in good times but lack fast times in longer distances. That is why scouts always try to get home to first times, steal times, etc. in addition to the 60 times. However, until it changes those 60 times will be important. It is simply the ability to maintain speed over a little longer distance. That is something that nearly anyone can improve.
I know everyone is awre of the fact that a baseball player rarely runs 60 yards in a straight line. Just like a lineman in football rarely runs 40 yards in a straight line. However, if a player can not maintain speed for the distance going in a straight line, why would he maintain that speed from 1B to 3B which (minus) the lead off, is 60 yards?
While 60 yards is not exactly ideal, those who say that the 60 yard times mean nothing, might be mistaken. Personally, I think the most important speed in baseball is the first 10 feet (or two strides).
rocketmom,
There are many who run short distances in good times but lack fast times in longer distances. That is why scouts always try to get home to first times, steal times, etc. in addition to the 60 times. However, until it changes those 60 times will be important. It is simply the ability to maintain speed over a little longer distance. That is something that nearly anyone can improve.
I know everyone is awre of the fact that a baseball player rarely runs 60 yards in a straight line. Just like a lineman in football rarely runs 40 yards in a straight line. However, if a player can not maintain speed for the distance going in a straight line, why would he maintain that speed from 1B to 3B which (minus) the lead off, is 60 yards?
While 60 yards is not exactly ideal, those who say that the 60 yard times mean nothing, might be mistaken. Personally, I think the most important speed in baseball is the first 10 feet (or two strides).
I have heard alot about how to improve your start, but not as much on how to maintain speed or finish well...
While I believe the start is the most important, maintaining speed is a result of conditioning and technique (form). This is an area where a good sprint coach should be able to help a lot.
It's the same old story one person's weakness is often another person's strength. Some are quick starters, some are strong finishers. Quick starters need to work on maintaining speed. Strong finishers need to work on being quicker starters. Recognizing the weakness and improving in that area can be very helpful.
It's the same old story one person's weakness is often another person's strength. Some are quick starters, some are strong finishers. Quick starters need to work on maintaining speed. Strong finishers need to work on being quicker starters. Recognizing the weakness and improving in that area can be very helpful.
The 60 time is certainly a good benchmark, but like others have said, there are other factors to consider as well. My son's PG evaluation, for instance, stated, "He ran a solid 60 (7.06), but shows better game speed on the bases and in the field."
Let's try to get some criteria (verbs) on paper, and using a 80/20 scale that have been around for years, (and trying not to 'reinvent' the wheel, sort of speak!)
2 Digit
Scale Verb
80 - Outstanding
70 - Well-above-average
60 - Above-average
50 - Major league average
40 - Below-average
30 - Well-below-average
20 - Poor
Should a report card approach be used, try the following:
A = 70-80
B = 60-69
C+ = 55-59
C = 50-54
D+ = 45-49
D = 40-44
O = 38-39
NP = 20-37
It's debatable if and how the report card approach is applied and interpreted for MiLB, College Players, and HS players. However the concept could remain identical (and is, in many of the conversations I get engaged in).
Note, the "A" grade is more the exception, is used sparingly, and for the elite MLB player (and HoF candidate).
A "B" grade is for the MLB All-Star player and a #1 & #2 Starter on a first-division/playoff contender.
A "C+" grade is where the majority of starting position players are located, and for pitchers a #3 or #4 starter, set-up and lower tier closers
A "C" grade is where the Average every day big leaguer reside. For pitchers a #5 starter, relief specialist types, and long relief guys.
A "D+" grade is where the 'fringe' and back-up players, most middle relievers, pitch hitters, and one tool type players.
The "O" grade is where the MiLB 'Organizational
player are yet not considered next year's future major leaguers.
The "NP" means 'Not a MLB Prospect'.
For running speed, a 60 yard dash, and a Home to 1b is frequently used. The following metrics are offered.
60 Yard Dash
Outstanding A = 70-80 6.4 sec (and lower)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 6.5-6.6 sec
Above Average C+ = 55-59 6.7 sec
Average C = 50-54 6.8-6.9 sec
Below Average D+ = 45-49 7.0 sec
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 7.1-7.2 sec
Above Poor O = 38-39 7.3-7.4 sec
Poor NP = 20-37 > 7.5 sec
Home to 1b (RHH)
Outstanding A = 70-80 4.0 sec (and lower)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 4.1 sec
Above Average C+ = 55-59 4.2 sec
Average C = 50-54 4.3 sec
Below Average D+ = 45-49 4.4 sec
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 4.5 sec
Above Poor O = 38-39 4.6 sec
Poor NP = 20-37 >4.6 sec
Home to 1b (LHH)
Outstanding A = 70-80 3.9 sec (and lower)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 4.0 sec
Above Average C+ = 55-59 4.1 sec
Average C = 50-54 4.2 sec
Below Average D+ = 45-49 4.3 sec
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 4.4 sec
Above Poor O = 38-39 4.5 sec
Poor NP = 20-37 >4.5 sec
For Arm Strength (Outfield)
Outstanding A = 70-80 95 (and higher)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 94 mph
Above Average C+ = 55-59 93 mph
Average C = 50-54 88-89 mph
Below Average D+ = 45-49 87-88 mph
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 85-86 mph
Above Poor O = 38-39 83-84 mph
Poor NP = 20-37 <82 mph
For Arm Strength (Infielders)
Outstanding A = 70-80 92 (and higher)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 90-91 mph
Above Average C+ = 55-59 88-89 mph
Average C = 50-54 86-87 mph
Below Average D+ = 45-49 85 mph
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 84 mph
Above Poor O = 38-39 82-83 mph
Poor NP = 20-37 <81 mph
For Arm Strength (RH Pitchers)
Outstanding A = 70-80 99 (and higher)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 96-98 mph
Above Average C+ = 55-59 93-95 mph
Average C = 50-54 90-92 mph
Below Average D+ = 45-49 88-89 mph
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 86-87 mph
Above Poor O = 38-39 84-85 mph
Poor NP = 20-37 <83 mph
For Arm Strength (LH Pitchers)
Outstanding A = 70-80 97 (and higher)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 94-96 mph
Above Average C+ = 55-59 91-93 mph
Average C = 50-54 88-90 mph
Below Average D+ = 45-49 86-87 mph
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 84-85 mph
Above Poor O = 38-39 82-84 mph
Poor NP = 20-37 <81 mph
Hope this helps.
Regards
Bear
2 Digit
Scale Verb
80 - Outstanding
70 - Well-above-average
60 - Above-average
50 - Major league average
40 - Below-average
30 - Well-below-average
20 - Poor
Should a report card approach be used, try the following:
A = 70-80
B = 60-69
C+ = 55-59
C = 50-54
D+ = 45-49
D = 40-44
O = 38-39
NP = 20-37
It's debatable if and how the report card approach is applied and interpreted for MiLB, College Players, and HS players. However the concept could remain identical (and is, in many of the conversations I get engaged in).
Note, the "A" grade is more the exception, is used sparingly, and for the elite MLB player (and HoF candidate).
A "B" grade is for the MLB All-Star player and a #1 & #2 Starter on a first-division/playoff contender.
A "C+" grade is where the majority of starting position players are located, and for pitchers a #3 or #4 starter, set-up and lower tier closers
A "C" grade is where the Average every day big leaguer reside. For pitchers a #5 starter, relief specialist types, and long relief guys.
A "D+" grade is where the 'fringe' and back-up players, most middle relievers, pitch hitters, and one tool type players.
The "O" grade is where the MiLB 'Organizational
player are yet not considered next year's future major leaguers.
The "NP" means 'Not a MLB Prospect'.
For running speed, a 60 yard dash, and a Home to 1b is frequently used. The following metrics are offered.
60 Yard Dash
Outstanding A = 70-80 6.4 sec (and lower)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 6.5-6.6 sec
Above Average C+ = 55-59 6.7 sec
Average C = 50-54 6.8-6.9 sec
Below Average D+ = 45-49 7.0 sec
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 7.1-7.2 sec
Above Poor O = 38-39 7.3-7.4 sec
Poor NP = 20-37 > 7.5 sec
Home to 1b (RHH)
Outstanding A = 70-80 4.0 sec (and lower)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 4.1 sec
Above Average C+ = 55-59 4.2 sec
Average C = 50-54 4.3 sec
Below Average D+ = 45-49 4.4 sec
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 4.5 sec
Above Poor O = 38-39 4.6 sec
Poor NP = 20-37 >4.6 sec
Home to 1b (LHH)
Outstanding A = 70-80 3.9 sec (and lower)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 4.0 sec
Above Average C+ = 55-59 4.1 sec
Average C = 50-54 4.2 sec
Below Average D+ = 45-49 4.3 sec
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 4.4 sec
Above Poor O = 38-39 4.5 sec
Poor NP = 20-37 >4.5 sec
For Arm Strength (Outfield)
Outstanding A = 70-80 95 (and higher)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 94 mph
Above Average C+ = 55-59 93 mph
Average C = 50-54 88-89 mph
Below Average D+ = 45-49 87-88 mph
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 85-86 mph
Above Poor O = 38-39 83-84 mph
Poor NP = 20-37 <82 mph
For Arm Strength (Infielders)
Outstanding A = 70-80 92 (and higher)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 90-91 mph
Above Average C+ = 55-59 88-89 mph
Average C = 50-54 86-87 mph
Below Average D+ = 45-49 85 mph
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 84 mph
Above Poor O = 38-39 82-83 mph
Poor NP = 20-37 <81 mph
For Arm Strength (RH Pitchers)
Outstanding A = 70-80 99 (and higher)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 96-98 mph
Above Average C+ = 55-59 93-95 mph
Average C = 50-54 90-92 mph
Below Average D+ = 45-49 88-89 mph
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 86-87 mph
Above Poor O = 38-39 84-85 mph
Poor NP = 20-37 <83 mph
For Arm Strength (LH Pitchers)
Outstanding A = 70-80 97 (and higher)
Well Abov Ave B = 60-69 94-96 mph
Above Average C+ = 55-59 91-93 mph
Average C = 50-54 88-90 mph
Below Average D+ = 45-49 86-87 mph
Way Below Avg D = 40-44 84-85 mph
Above Poor O = 38-39 82-84 mph
Poor NP = 20-37 <81 mph
Hope this helps.
Regards
Bear