Just Beginning the Recruiting Process

Welcome to the site.

So, I heard "academics first" and "engineering".  If that is his definite major of choice, I believe that will set you on a very specific path.  Search this site with engineering as the key word.

I know there are regulars here who have traveled that road who will chime in.

This entire site is, in part, dedicated to answering all of your questions.  The recruiting timeline is a good place to start.  I won't get into details, as my son is a 2016 and we are just entering the rapids (to steal a good analogy from another post earlier today), and others will have more answers.  What I will say is that "$600 for 30 pitches" (does sound silly, doesn't it?) was by far the best money we could have spent so far (other than the money spent on fitness / instruction).  PG is the best.  Do not underestimate the value of their Showcases and tournaments.  In some cases (the right player, on the righ day, with the right audience), 30 pitches may be 20 more than they need to make an assessment.  Look into their Academic Showcase (early June) and also HeadFirst HonorRoll events.  Good luck!

I do NOT want to derail this thread, however since the OP had an original comment regarding the value of a $600 PG event to help in the recruiting process, I will say this.  One of the things I hate about the greatest game ever invented, is that it has evolved into a game whereby it has become quite expensive as compared to many years ago when most of us enjoyed it.  Believe me, I appreciate the opportunities that currently exist, that never did before (PG, great Club teams, Private Lessons, Customized throwing / hitting lessons, etc....each of which normally come with a hefty price).  Not sure anything can be done about that, but over time, it has left a huge disadvantage for those not able to afford a game that used to be one of the most affordable to play.  I don't want to make this into a political debate, it's just something that always bothers me.  In time (if not already) the price parents have to pay, will likely continue to change the demographics of those who can enjoy the ride.

Back to the point of the OP's thread.  PG, and camps hosted by the schools you are interested in, are your best bet.  If your school preference is very narrowly focused, then PG may be to broad, and you may instead focus on directly focusing your efforts on camps at the schools you are interested, or send a schedule of where your player will be playing to those schools.

Thanks for your responses!

Cabbagedad: I've read some of the engineering topics and it makes me nervous. Engineering is a grind anyways and you throw baseball on top of it..yikes. He is certain that 4+2 or 3+2 programs are not for him so I guess that realization is good!

BucsFan: We are planning to go to the Headfirst camp this summer. We have a couple friends who have participated in it and raved about the opportunities to interact with the coaches. But those are a couple day event for not that much more than the 4 hour PG showcase. I know I should consider it another opportunity but we need to be thoughtful on how we manage our resources ;-). BTW...I am not bashing PG...I guess subconsciously I was asking for someone to "sell" me on spending that kind of money.

Back Foot Slider: appreciate your thoughts and agree whole heartedly around the cost of the kids game. My wife and I have always said we will do what we can to help our kids achieve their goals but sometimes we need to make difficult decisions. And school camps seem to be some of our better options moving forward.

Thanks again!

Welcome.

Both Fenwaysouth and my son are playing ball in college and taking engineering. His son is at an Ivy and mine at a DIII in Texas.

In general high level D1 ball and engineering are not compatible. There are programs that it can work but it is one of the questions you really have to explore with coaches when talking with them.

PM either one of us and we would be more than happy to help you out with any specific questions you may have, or post them here, I am sure Fenway will see it eventually.

Best of luck

Welcome to a great site.

Just finished second son who is 2014 catcher, but learned a lot from my 2012 who is now pitching at a DII and having the time of his life.

My 2014 is a high academic player 4.5 GPA and good SAT and ACT scores. Have done all the summer travel teams with both boys and if I had to do all over again I would do the following with my son and my Money

1. Get a good list of schools that offer the education that your son wants and make sure you are realistic with his ability and what and where he could really play.

2. I would not do any summer team unless it was one of the top programs and he was able to make the top team. Instead I would :

3. Do the academic PG showcase and maybe tour it in different areas. (Florida and Georgia)

4. Head first honor roll

5. Do the camps at the colleges that you have an interest in.

6. Find out if the schools you have interest will be participating in other camps or were they combine several schools and attend.

The average player will spend $5,000.00 to $6,000.00 on travel, hotels, fuel, food etc. For the summer travel team and never see a recruiting coach at any games. So take that money and do your own thing and go to the events that the coaches will be at. There are lots more but with the high academics we found that our sons schools attended all three that we did and it paid off. He has committed to a great school for his education and the bonus is he gets to play baseball. It not an easy process in fact it becomes very stressful and costly in some cases.

Set your sites and be realistic. Not every player is capable of playing at the DI levels but the DII's, DIII'S, NAIA's and Jucos all need players and always remember its about the education.

Everybody has to make their own choices, and I agree that some of the events are cost prohibitive.  Sometimes, I feel that we have put ourselves in a bad position financially, but in the end, it has worked out.

On not finding a travel team to attend events, I believe that is bad advice, but to each his own.  Traveling to thePG 16u WWBA was the best event our son attended.  During the event, there were games with 25+ College coaches there. Now, this was not every game, but there were scouts at every game.  Keep in mind this was a 7 game tourney, so there were ample opportunities to be seen.  It just happened that Air Force was there, and our son received his offer because of his attendance at this event.

Please don't sell any methods short, because there is more than one way to skin a cat.

A couple things to think about...

One thing I have never liked about what we do is the cost associated with attending events.  It is too expensive!  However, in our case it has to be that expensive.  If we did it part time, worked out of our house, and found a field, and our job was over when the event ended, we would make a fortune. Instead we have a building, offices, an extremely large pay roll for about 60 full time employes and hundreds of seasonal/part time workers.  After most events we have people working for weeks compiling information and filing reports from that event.  I'm not complaining, just trying to somewhat justify the cost involved. Our profit margin is much smaller than others who do the same thing. We might spend more money than all the others combined.

That doesn't solve the problem, though.  We understand there are many who simply can't afford some of the things we do.  After all, the cost of the event isn't even the most expensive part.  It costs much more in travel, lodging and meals unless the event is in your area of the country.  We try to help as much as possible when we know of a talented player that can't afford these things.  It is difficult because of certain NCAA rules.  We really don't have that much to offer to the kids that lack talent, so they are better off saving their money.  The way we have helped many is by getting other baseball people to help them, we have lots of contacts.  People who can help them without worrying about NCAA rules.  Sometimes it is their team or a team we know will pick them up.  After all, lots of people are interested in helping talented baseball players. There are programs out there that work with kids that are under privileged.  We try to work with several of those programs.  MLB tries to help those kids also, especially in the inner cities. Our job is to find talented players, whether they come from wealthy families or from poverty makes no difference.  We have helped many poverty stricken kids, including some who are now wealthy Major Leaguers.

Often there is a discussion about size on this site.  Size is important but talent is much more important. Same could be said about this topic.  Money is important, but talent is much more important.  I think if you check the history involving PG, you will find a very large number of current MLB players.  Surely no one thinks these were all a bunch of sons of rich people.  

I will say this, if someone only throws 30 pitches at a PG showcase, they have probably thrown very well.  The average appearance is more like 50 pitches.  It really doesn't matter, though, other than endurance why would anyone need more than 30 pitches to show their ability? Sometimes it takes no more than a few pitches to know what a pitcher is capable of.  You could throw 200 pitches that interest nobody or you could throw 3 pitches and have everyone interested.

Back to the original poster... Based on what you have posted, I think the best approach would be to find the colleges that fit your goals.  Chances are, based on what you have stated, you might be best off looking at smaller high academic colleges. Because your son has a strong desire to play baseball, I would visit a couple of those colleges during the season and watch a couple games.  Get a feel for the talent level you are watching. Try to determine how your son compares.  

Anything and everything is possible, but chances of being happy are best if your in the right place.  78 mph pitchers really need to be seen.  Nobody is going to get excited when they hear 78 mph.  That simply describes a pitcher that could be anywhere from very good to very bad.  My honest opinion is to forget about any individual showcases.  Try to get on a team that plays at events that college coaches attend.  Go visit colleges that interest you and might want you.  I will say that the 6'2/150 LHP peaking low 80s with good control and three pitches should create some serious interest.  Possibly even at a DI college, but for sure at some smaller high academic colleges. Unless he is exceptionally good, I agree, I doubt if spending $600 at a PG showcase would be a good investment. 

I've said this a thousand times.  Please understand!  We don't want your money unless you have some talent.  If you have talent, you're likely to be very happy you spent the money.  If you lack talent, you're probably throwing your money out the window. There is very little anyone can do for you unless you have talent. If you're not a good player on your high school team, why spend money trying to impress people who see the top players in the entire country.  For some reason I think some people think if they spend the money they are buying into the future.  It just doesn't work that way!  Remember... Talent is much more important than money in the end.

I know that PG has a good reputation as one of the best when it comes to showcases and tournaments.  If you have a son and he is not a "good" HS player I would rather you give your money to some other showcase.  You won't have any problem finding some that will want you. 

PGStaff, thank you for taking the time to write a very informative and candid response.   

Seconded.

First time, long time.  Here goes.

As a school teacher and youth baseball coach I've been able to spend many summers on Cape Cod and have enjoyed watching the high level of amateur play the Cape League offers.  My thirteen year old son and I met the mother of an ACC ball player after a game one night and basically asked her what the secret was?  "Looking back on your son's youth and high school career, what advice can you give my son and me about attaining such success in college baseball?"  First word out of her mouth was, "Camps."  Go to camps at the schools your son is interested in.  She said her son never did travel or showcase ball.  That her husband was, "old school."  Was a big believer in American Legion ball. 

So here is an example of an ACC player, drafted out of high school in 10th round, later drafted in Top 100 picks after Junior year of college, who never spent the big bucks on travel ball and showcase events in farflung places like Jupiter or Ft. Myers.  Legion ball costs what, $125 for a summer season of average to above average competition?  Let's face it, not all travel ball and showcase venues offer the "top notch" competition that's advertised.

So again, Mom's advice was "camps."  Go to camps at schools that are compatible academically and are realistic fits for your player's abilities.  Half the recruiting battle for coaches is finding good players who also want to come to their college.

Good luck and great topic.

#1 -

While there is certainly some merit to your post, I think it is sort of a bad example.  A kid with the talent to get drafted in the 10th round out of HS could have taken any one of a dozen different routes and wound up heavily recruited regardless.

Also, I do agree that going to camps that are compatible academically and a realistic fit ability wise is a good thing.  But a player has to figure out what that ability fit is and a PG event is far more likely to shed light on where he stacks up than most individual college camps.

Now, If a player already has good feedback from a variety of sources and has a realistic idea of ability fit and he has specific academic goals like OP, then, yes, targeting a handful of camps may be the best route.  Proper communication before and after are really important though.

I wanted to thank all those who have taken the time to respond to my post. Specifically, I wanted to respond to PGStaff. I feel like I need to apologize. My goal was not to call out PG specifically though that is just what I did. I should have spoke in general terms. I am just trying to figure out which path will provide my son the best opportunity at pursuing his dream. There is a lot of options outlined on this forum. I suppose each individual just needs to find the right one for them. My son is not a superstar. He is a great kid who really LOVES baseball...always has. I want badly the decision not to play baseball anymore to be his and not have it made for him. Hopefully he will get in front of the right coach and is able to continue to pursue his dream. I just hope I am able o provide the correct council and support.

Thanks again all!

Our son's Legion Season cost $550 last year, and that doesn't include parents helping out.  Anyhow, the you don't need to travel, may be true for some, but for most you'll need to get seen. Please keep in mind that where you live is important too.  For instance, we are from Idaho, and traveling is very important.  If we were from Ga., Fla.,Ca., Tx., etc. it wouldn't be as imperative.

A caveat on Legion ball ... It depends where you live. Where my son grew up the talent didn't play Legion ball as a priority. A kid wouldn't be seen until states if his team makes it. The local college coaches attend states. They figure they will see travel kids who are rostered on Legion teams.

Hello and welcome to the site.  Right now IMO, you're son sounds like a fit for DIII/NAIA.  A lot of engineering/academic schools are DIII/NAIA. That said, I would prioritize a list of schools and plan to attend their camps.  As a LHP and room to grow, he has great projection and should garner attention.  It's not too late. 

LuJoLHP15,

Welcome, and congrats on your son's accomplishments and goals.   In the case of college baseball and engineering, we've found having a clear vision of those goals can be both a blessing and a curse.

In our experience, we found there were few colleges at the (D1 & D3) levels that would "accommodate" baseball players and engineering.  I use the word "accommodate" but it is mostly a situation that allows you to play less games, practice less, and travel less.  Let me be very clear, there are no shortcuts with engineers.   The work has to be done, and it is extremely competitive with students from all over the world.  Our situation was a godsend, but others may view it differently.  That is fine by me.   I actually have two college engineer majors in my house.  One plays college baseball and the other decided against it.  Truthfully, I think my middle son saw how hard my oldest son works and decided he wanted to spend what little free time is available...differently.  Smart kid.

Where you live may come into play.  We live in VA.  For the most part, all the regional engineering schools are large D1 state schools (top D1 conferences) that play 56 games and practice many, many hours.  While we started with these schools, we quickly realized the time commitment, playing time, travel time and recruitability were going to work against us.  We expanded our search to the East coast. We found many "boutiquey" D3 engineering schools such as Tufts, WPI, RPI, Rose-Holman, Stevens Institute, Trinity Univ (TX), Case-Western, etc...that were also very good options for us. 

While attending a PG event in 2009 with his travel team, we had a fairly lengthy discussion with a former Ivy Head coach who has since passed away.  His travel coach asked the Ivy coach to drop by to see him pitch.  The Ivy coach  encouraged my son to consider the Ivy and Patriot League schools, and his specific school for engineering and baseball.  My son thought that was really, really cool.  A few weeks later, we were in another D1 coaches office talking about an offer.  To make a long story short, that same D1 coach (unintentionally) talked us out of his program and into the ivy and Patriot League way of doing things.  So, we immediately starting reaching out to ivy and patriot league coaches and signed up for showcases and camps where we knew Ivy and Patriot League coaches would be. We were pretty certain his baseball level would stick out at the academic showcases, and we were right.  The market of supply and demand was now in our favor.

I think if you talk to BOF, you'll see a similar approach (as ours) of trying to find the right fit and situation.  I know he considered many, many different schools, and my son actually hosted his son's Official Visit a few years ago (small world).   It is going to take some time and serious thought on your son's part.  My impression is that Engineering is an "all-in" major.  You're either in or out.  I think your son is doing the right thing by visiting these schools to see what they are all about, and deciding if this is truly for him.  Different engineering programs have different ways of doing things, and when you have to officially apply to get into the school of engineering.

If I had known then what I know now I could have saved myself some gray hairs. I'm not a smart man, but I did the best I could do to help my son make the best decision for him.  There was much trial and error, and you cant be afraid to make mistakes.  At this point in time you should be researching academic showcases & camps for next summer, and trying to figure out how to get in front of those coaches, and beginning a dialogue.  In addition, your son needs to keep those grades up and nail the SAT/ACT to be considered at these top academic schools.

Good luck and please let me know if you have any questions. 

Thanks to everyone for their responses. It is interesting to hear what worked/works for everyone. I find comfort in knowing that it appears that there is not one right answer. I hope that I can provide the right guidance for my son. He is going to need to market himself, no doubt about it. He is busy adding weight and getting stronger...doing all the right things.

Time will tell!

Thanks again!

Here's my two cents...

We took the approach that we were not going to put all our eggs in one basket.  My son has done a variety of camps, showcases, college prospect camps etc.  He also has an online recruiting profile.  The online recruiting profile also allowed him to check to see who had shown interest and also who had roster openings.  It also provided a single place to store activities, i.e. e-mails sent, recruiting questionnaires filled out etc.  The other nice thing was having any coaches e-mail accessible without having to visit a bunch of separate websites.

With that said a few lessons learned:

• If attending college prospect camps make sure they are looking for your position/your year
• Verify what colleges will be at a showcase (one, many, etc.)
• Consider being evaluated by a third party, i.e NCSA or other independent party, PG evaluates you also at their events.  Is the camp you are attending providing a written evaluation?  Does the school have the major that your son wants?
• If you are from an area where baseball isn't king (we live in Minnesota) consider attending events, other than the Gopher Classic (large Legion Tournament) up here, we don't always get a lot of scouts/recruiters at games.
• Lastly, start as early as you can afford to do so.  Even if it is just a single showcase or camp it is good experience so that your son knows what to expect.  Sadly, more and more schools are making verbal offers to younger and younger guys.  My son has verbally committed and he is a Junior.  He got his first offer mid-season as a sophomore.
• Educate yourself on the NCAA recruiting rules.  Know what schools can and can't do when...
• Set realistic expectations.  Go out to PG and see how other players with comparable skills are evaluated.  Example if your son wants to play at a certain school see how hard players committed to that school in the past throw...

Good Luck!

Wow, what great responses and a divergence of ideas.  We got a lot of advice from members on this site, most of it very good and helpful.  As a result we had a plan that helped my son develop as a ballplayer, and get him the exposure he needed with the right people.  We did the Summer team, PG camp, Stanford/Headfirst stuff, which was very expensive, and in the end may not have been necessary.  The problem is you never know, but my son did get a lot of options and confidence from these events.  At the end of the day the Summer team and a local Fall camp gave him the exposure for the school he selected, and it was the most rewarding as there were 9 kids from that team that signed D1, and the others have committed to JUCOs and have other options.  This allows us to follow these kids as well over the years, as we have become close too their families over these last few Summers.  The other events led to options/offers as well, and it we were very happy for this as it eased the tension during the recruiting craziness in the Senior year.

Everybody here has a different story.  From our perspective we do not regret doing any of these things.  It allowed us to maintain a bond with our son during some of the hardest teen years, and show him that we care about him enough to give him a little attention.  He may not have always have seemed like he appreciated what we were doing when he was a mid teen, (as most 16 year olds don't), but I believe he will for the rest of his life no matter what happens with baseball. 

Good luck to you and enjoy the ride. 

Just in case playing ball and engineering doesn't work for him, look for good engineering school with club baseball. Know players who play while concentrating on school and they have a great time. They get uniforms and travel to play other schools club teams. Some majors are harder than others when playing college sports. Can be done but very difficult.