I am just wondering is the quality of coaching a player receives when at the HS age important, that is as opposed to at the younger ages?
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I picked an age were I thought it was time for me to stop coaching my own son.
The age that I personally stopped coaching was age 12.
I did help at age 13, but then stopped completely after that.
I felt that my son would not grow as a player if he did not receive coaching from other then his father.
I'm sure there's good Dad coaches out there.
But if you want your Player to grow to stand on his own 2 feet and handle the situation's that are going to be thrown at them.
You know, allow them to grow into the independent young man that you want them to become.
Well then pick an age and stop coaching them.
Trust other's to carry it forward.
EH
The age that I personally stopped coaching was age 12.
I did help at age 13, but then stopped completely after that.
I felt that my son would not grow as a player if he did not receive coaching from other then his father.
I'm sure there's good Dad coaches out there.
But if you want your Player to grow to stand on his own 2 feet and handle the situation's that are going to be thrown at them.
You know, allow them to grow into the independent young man that you want them to become.
Well then pick an age and stop coaching them.
Trust other's to carry it forward.
EH
By high school a kid should be looking for the best possible coaching and the best possible competitive situation. I'm one of those coaches you're afraid you might be insulting. I know how to teach the game. Still, I placed my son in a 16U program (he's a hs soph) I won't be coaching to take away his comfort zone. He's competing with fifteen players of comparable ability. If he falters, there's no benefit of the doubt from dad. There's just another kid waiting for an opportunity to show his stuff and replace him. He's definitely focused and on his toes. From offseason workouts I can see he's amped up his focus beyond what he thought he had.
When my kid left Little League he was more knowledgeable of the game, had better instincts for the game and better skill as well as less fear than I ever had.
It was time for me to step out of his way and provide him with coaches who had played the game at the highest level I could find.
It is difficult to let go, but if your son is to grow up and take on leadership roles it may be time to allow the process to begin in earnest.
It was time for me to step out of his way and provide him with coaches who had played the game at the highest level I could find.
It is difficult to let go, but if your son is to grow up and take on leadership roles it may be time to allow the process to begin in earnest.
if your a dad that coaches and just happens to have your son one day that's one thing.
i've alway's felt your not doing your son any favor's coaching him past LL. too many issue's,
real or percieved.
short answer, time to let him fly. dad will be fine eventually.
i've alway's felt your not doing your son any favor's coaching him past LL. too many issue's,
real or percieved.
short answer, time to let him fly. dad will be fine eventually.
Junior had a pitching coach who when he first started going to him (8th grade) was unaffiliated with our schools. Eventually, this pitching coach went on to be our asst. Varsity coach. After junior year, I felt that Junior needed to step beyond what he already knew and we moved up a rung on the quality of coaching.
I believe it's a natural progression. Not all coaches are all things. The ones that get you started may not be the best ones to move you along or finish you.
I believe it's a natural progression. Not all coaches are all things. The ones that get you started may not be the best ones to move you along or finish you.
Sometimes it's just good to hear the same thing from a different voice or possibly in a different way. Let him move on.
Bingo! A new coach told my son the same thing I had been telling him for a year and he listened. He said it a different way. And my son can't glare at the coach.quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
Sometimes it's just good to hear the same thing from a different voice or possibly in a different way. Let him move on.
Thanks for the advice everyone! It is good to hear some thoughts from others. Sorry if I did not explain things well. Our son is now in HS, and I just wanted to know others thoughts about having son move on from his coach of many years, I guess maybe we just wanted some reassurance.
quote:20 dad quote:
If your a dad that coaches and just happens to have your son one day that's one thing. I've alway's felt your not doing your son any favor's coaching him past LL. too many issue's, real or percieved.
My situation was different. I coached my sons TEAMS from t-ball through Legion. He had some specific training from other instructors but I was the teams coach. Did it work out? Absolutely. There was no special treatment and I was harder, and pushed him more so than any other player. They saw it, and he knew the agenda, and purpose. After time they were all my boys. He graduated with 12 seniors on the team, I had coached 9 of them in LL all-stars from age 10-15, 5 went on to play college baseball, and all are friends of mine to this day. I think it worked because my strength was communication, I had other resources who specialized in specific training. There was never a "political" atmosphere with parents or players. IMHO, it can work as long as all the cards are on the table and father and son both understand that it will end as soon as one or the other see conflict. I was VERY lucky.
Bingo again! I made it all the way through 18U with my daughter and showcase softball. With my son 16U was time for it to end. The irony is for the most part my daughter is the intense one and my son is the easy going one. But he's more stubborn. We made it as far as we did with an understanding: "As long as you respect and treat me like any other coach I'll treat you like any other player." It started unraveling at fifteen when he decided he knew more than me.quote:it can work as long as all the cards are on the table and father and son both understand that it will end as soon as one or the other see conflict.
What many do not realize is that the son is treated "tougher" than the other kids on the team and that is a fact--the good coach/dad bends over backwards to make sure there is no favoritism
Btw-- I never coached any of my boys beyond the final year of LL --- and it all worked out well
Btw-- I never coached any of my boys beyond the final year of LL --- and it all worked out well
Again, thanks for the advice. I did not mean to make the topic "about" dad coaches or if non dad coaches are better coaches than dad coaches. I certainly was not complaining about dad coaches! If you read my original post you will see I even said my sons dad coached as well, as an assistant. I have nothing against dad coaches, I was just asking if the HS level was a good time to move away from dad coaching? We feel bad for doing so with a coach our son was with for so many years, and have been having a hard time actually doing so! I just wanted to know was HS a good time to move on (yes, from a dad coach) and also maybe some advice of how best to do so. We don't want to just tell his old "dad coach" see ya, yet we don't know how to do it in a way that won't leave hard feelings. We didn't choose to leave this coach because we don't like him or because he gave anyone special treatment, it's nothing like that at all. Our son was with this coach since about 10y.o. though now he's in HS and he's basically moved to another team that is older with a coach who is not a parent. We thought moving up an age level would be a good thing, and we thought this was a good time to move on (away) from the dad coach (or any dad coach). Again, I apologize if I did not explain well enough, guess I'm not as good as explaining things as I thought. But, I have nothing against dad coaches! Son stayed with this particular coach 5yrs, but this year son wants to play UP with this other team. Maybe I shouldn't have even mentioned the fact of him being a dad coach? I only did because of how long son was with this coach and he stayed with him since rec ball and had moved on to travel ball with him. Playing for a "non dad coach" is still a fairly new concept for us (his parents) and our son. Personally I like it better, but, I have nothing against dad coaches, not at all! 
I got what you are saying now. Honestly this guy sounds more like a friend now than a coach. Which is understandable given the length of the relationship. I'm betting that your family and this guy will still be around each other at other social functions and you don't want it to be weird.
My advice take what you put in the last post you made (quoted below) and reword it to him. To me this sounds just fine as a reason why your son is moving on.
If the guy gets mad then that is his problem. You cannot let your son not develop just because one guy gets his feeling hurt.
My advice take what you put in the last post you made (quoted below) and reword it to him. To me this sounds just fine as a reason why your son is moving on.
quote:I have nothing against dad coaches, I was just asking if the HS level was a good time to move away from the "dad coach"? We feel bad for doing so with a coach our son was with for so many years. I just wanted to know was HS a good time to move on (yes, from a dad coach) and also maybe some advice of how best to do so. We don't want to just tell his old "dad coach" see ya, yet we don't know how to do it in a way that won't leave hard feelings. We didn't choose to leave this coach because we don't like him or because he gave anyone special treatment, it's nothing like that at all. Our son was with this coach since 10yrs old, though now he's in HS and he's basically moved to another team that is older with a coach who is not a parent (dad). We thought moving up an age level would be a good thing, and we thought this was a good time to move on (away) from the dad coach (or any dad coach).
If the guy gets mad then that is his problem. You cannot let your son not develop just because one guy gets his feeling hurt.
Agree, it is time for your son to develop to the best of his capabilities whereever that may be. I am going to have to cross that bridge at the end of this baseball season myself with my son.
quote:Originally posted by BaseballGr8:
Again, thanks for the advice. I did not mean to make the topic "about" dad coaches or if non dad coaches are better coaches than dad coaches. I certainly was not complaining about dad coaches! If you read my original post you will see I even said my sons dad coached as well, as an assistant. I have nothing against dad coaches, I was just asking if the HS level was a good time to move away from the "dad coach"? We feel bad for doing so with a coach our son was with for so many years. I just wanted to know was HS a good time to move on (yes, from a dad coach) and also maybe some advice of how best to do so. We don't want to just tell his old "dad coach" see ya, yet we don't know how to do it in a way that won't leave hard feelings. We didn't choose to leave this coach because we don't like him or because he gave anyone special treatment, it's nothing like that at all. Our son was with this coach since 10yrs old, though now he's in HS and he's basically moved to another team that is older with a coach who is not a parent (dad). We thought moving up an age level would be a good thing, and we thought this was a good time to move on (away) from the dad coach (or any dad coach). Again, I apologize if I did not explain well enough, guess I'm not as good as explaining things as I thought. But, I have nothing against dad coaches! Son stayed with this particular coach 5yrs, but this year son wants to play UP with this other team. Maybe I shouldn't have even mentioned the fact of him being a dad coach? I only did because of how long son was with this coach and he stayed with him since rec ball and had moved on to travel ball with him. Playing for a "non dad coach" is still a fairly new concept for us (parents) and our son. Personally I like it better, but, I have nothing against dad coaches, not at all!
I would let your son decide. If he still has friends on that team and wants to "fill in" when able, that's fine, but you've made the right choice to get him on a better team at a higher level.
My $.02 Like floridafan I stopped coaching after LL for several reasons
1) save my marriage
2) Kids knew more then I did
3) To enjoy the game!!!
I would help from time to time with drills when asked. But the last time was when I helped out when my son's 14U team was short a coach for practice. After practice my son came up to me and asked very seriously if I would never help at practice again because I was terrible. We agreed that I would never teach again as long as I could discuss the mental side of the game with him.
My son and I have a great relationship!! He's forgotten more then I know about baseball. (LOL) But I have the knowledge of years of work place experience and dealing with all types of people. So I help with the coach issues, other player issues, Coaches/sons issues, girls and baseball issues and so much more. All I do is advise. He can choose to use the advice or not.
I felt that if your son/daughter showed an interest in athletics that we as parents owed it to them to nuture that desire. If they showed promise then get them with the best coach, (NOTE I DID NOT SAY BEST TEAM). Someone who could take that desire and talent and prehaps take it up to the next level.
Since my kids were young (5-6)daughter just turned 21 and son just turned 15 I've been beating into them three very simple rules:
1) Never let anything get in your head
2) Know your enemy
3) You can always call home about rules 1&2
1) save my marriage
2) Kids knew more then I did
3) To enjoy the game!!!
I would help from time to time with drills when asked. But the last time was when I helped out when my son's 14U team was short a coach for practice. After practice my son came up to me and asked very seriously if I would never help at practice again because I was terrible. We agreed that I would never teach again as long as I could discuss the mental side of the game with him.
My son and I have a great relationship!! He's forgotten more then I know about baseball. (LOL) But I have the knowledge of years of work place experience and dealing with all types of people. So I help with the coach issues, other player issues, Coaches/sons issues, girls and baseball issues and so much more. All I do is advise. He can choose to use the advice or not.
I felt that if your son/daughter showed an interest in athletics that we as parents owed it to them to nuture that desire. If they showed promise then get them with the best coach, (NOTE I DID NOT SAY BEST TEAM). Someone who could take that desire and talent and prehaps take it up to the next level.
Since my kids were young (5-6)daughter just turned 21 and son just turned 15 I've been beating into them three very simple rules:
1) Never let anything get in your head
2) Know your enemy
3) You can always call home about rules 1&2
I always knew that I'd have to step away as a coach... I knew from tee-ball that I was only a "temp-coach" for my son... At age 11 right now he's more talented, more savvy, more skilled and a harder worker than I ever was... He's also probably even more mature than I'll ever be (gets a lot of the good characteristics from his Mom)...
My experience or "my ceiling" only went to the High School Level - as a player... So, when the right situation came calling (Former MLB 20-year vet who's a 3-time All-Star and World Series Champion, who has run a youth Baseball program since the 1990's, who is a great man and currently dedicating himself to this one 11u team...), it was a no-brainer... We're very blessed and pretty lucky too!
Now my "coaching-job" is limited to the batting cage or the tee and somewhat similar to a caddy on the PGA Tour... I now just carry & get stuff and say "Nice hit!"...
My experience or "my ceiling" only went to the High School Level - as a player... So, when the right situation came calling (Former MLB 20-year vet who's a 3-time All-Star and World Series Champion, who has run a youth Baseball program since the 1990's, who is a great man and currently dedicating himself to this one 11u team...), it was a no-brainer... We're very blessed and pretty lucky too!
Now my "coaching-job" is limited to the batting cage or the tee and somewhat similar to a caddy on the PGA Tour... I now just carry & get stuff and say "Nice hit!"...
We are fortunate to live in Florida. There are a fair amount of retired players here who enjoy staying involved and imparting their knowledge of the game to this generation.
I found one and asked him to become my son's mentor. The relationship has had a very positive impact on my son as he continues to navigate his post high school baseball aspirations.
I found one and asked him to become my son's mentor. The relationship has had a very positive impact on my son as he continues to navigate his post high school baseball aspirations.
We've have always sought out new coaching. As the boy advanced in the sport at each level I think you'll pretty much top out, you can't get enough good information. Fortunately for the boy, I knew I was finshed at LL. And since then I have happily have been the underwriter, ball shagger etc...
Confuucious say: " Baseball wrong- man with four balls cannot walk"
Confuucious say: " Baseball wrong- man with four balls cannot walk"
My swann song with my son was when he was 12 and we played at Cooperstown. What a way to go out!! It pained me at first to sit on the otherside of the fence and I was guilty a few times of coaching from my seat but it has settled down and now I am just a fan of my son and his team. He never had an issue with my coaching him and you'd have never known that his dad was the coach if you didn't know. That fact made me very proud of him, he handled it the right way!! (plenty of kids do not unfortunately)
If your son is old enough to turn him over to another coach, HS or otherwise, then he is old enouigh to get his opinion about his own future in baseball.
When my son was 14 and playing travel ball was at the point we sat down and discussed his future with another coach at the helm. My son wanted the coach's approval but he also wanted the comfort of discussing concepts that made him question their effect on what he had previously learned.
My position was guided by my first obligation as a dad then as a source. If I didn't understand or didn't know the answer I would tell him so, and we would seek the answers to our questions from higher authority eg., profressionals or the many written books on pitching.
If there was a question then I would ask the coach about it and get his reasoning. If there was any question about the difference and it didn't overrtly conflict with the advise from all other sources then we would agree. But lets be honest about it, most "successful pitchers" learn there mechanics early and are not to comfortable with coach's changing them. Small adjustments to alignment are not uncommon but major throwing changes can cause a complete loss of confidence.
In all cases you should not assume that just because your son is playing HS baseball that his HS coach will teach him properly. That's a bad mistake. If you taught your son from day one then always be a source though you may not be in the mentoring role anymore.
JMO
When my son was 14 and playing travel ball was at the point we sat down and discussed his future with another coach at the helm. My son wanted the coach's approval but he also wanted the comfort of discussing concepts that made him question their effect on what he had previously learned.
My position was guided by my first obligation as a dad then as a source. If I didn't understand or didn't know the answer I would tell him so, and we would seek the answers to our questions from higher authority eg., profressionals or the many written books on pitching.
If there was a question then I would ask the coach about it and get his reasoning. If there was any question about the difference and it didn't overrtly conflict with the advise from all other sources then we would agree. But lets be honest about it, most "successful pitchers" learn there mechanics early and are not to comfortable with coach's changing them. Small adjustments to alignment are not uncommon but major throwing changes can cause a complete loss of confidence.
In all cases you should not assume that just because your son is playing HS baseball that his HS coach will teach him properly. That's a bad mistake. If you taught your son from day one then always be a source though you may not be in the mentoring role anymore.
JMO
Not coaching does not mean not watching, and not talking about the game. Once in awhile, only when the time is right, even a piece of advice can be offered. I knew it was time to stop coaching after 7th grade. I am glad we quit then. We still play catch every so often.
quote:My situation was different. I coached my sons TEAMS from t-ball through Legion.
rz
while i did make a broad statement ,that is the difference. from my years of observation.
i have watched many dad's coach their kids, bat 4th play ss etc, but not the team. it takes a special person to coach the team. it can/does work, but i haven't seen it much around here.