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Have to look hard at the Varsity coach on this one. He should be the captain of the ship and working with all of his coaches to develop a philosophy the runs through the entire program.
For exmaple everyone should be running the same defensive rotations, pitch sequencing, plate approach etc. This goes all the way down to things like taking 3-0, moving runners and even how to catch ground balls.
If you are old enough there used be something called the Oriole Way in the 60's and 70's that was the same from Rookie ball all the way to Baltimore. It worked and IMO JV and Varsity should be that way.
But it starts at the top and the most consistent programs seem to have this working. In fact in the SED if you look at IR, GF, WB and GB all the coaches have roots in the GB program either having played or coached there. So there isn't a great surprise that all of these teams have similar styles and approaches. OS now has a coach out of IR so watching him develop the program there should be interesting to see if he is another shoot off the tree.
For exmaple everyone should be running the same defensive rotations, pitch sequencing, plate approach etc. This goes all the way down to things like taking 3-0, moving runners and even how to catch ground balls.
If you are old enough there used be something called the Oriole Way in the 60's and 70's that was the same from Rookie ball all the way to Baltimore. It worked and IMO JV and Varsity should be that way.
But it starts at the top and the most consistent programs seem to have this working. In fact in the SED if you look at IR, GF, WB and GB all the coaches have roots in the GB program either having played or coached there. So there isn't a great surprise that all of these teams have similar styles and approaches. OS now has a coach out of IR so watching him develop the program there should be interesting to see if he is another shoot off the tree.
If im not mistaken, the OS coach also has great bridge ties!
I don't know how it is in other parts of state, but in NR, JV games are always played opposite varsity games at the opponents field. This prevents varsity and jv coaches and players from watching each other, effectively separating programs completely.
I like basketball where jv and varsity games are back to back. I believe it helps to build the overall program and motivates kids to work harder, compete, and not assume they've got a position or assume they can't get one.
I would like to see some same formats for baseball to prevent the two separate program notion.
I like basketball where jv and varsity games are back to back. I believe it helps to build the overall program and motivates kids to work harder, compete, and not assume they've got a position or assume they can't get one.
I would like to see some same formats for baseball to prevent the two separate program notion.
quote:Current observation is that the JV program exists on its' own 'island', so to speak, with a 'win at all cost' philosophy vs. building a solid HS program through active and structured development of the young talent currently on hand. Are the majority of JV programs like this?
IMO, Yes this is how programs are run. Some with better communication between the coaches, but for the most part I think the philosphy is play to win. I have yet to meet a Coach who is not interested in the W and says it doesn't matter. And in theory it would be great to have a completely developmental program, I don't think I have seen one in HS - only in travel ball. I have found that people that say "isn't JV for developing kids?" - their kids are not getting in the game. Have him work hard - if you hit, you don't sit. simple as that.
You're are correct. The JV Program should be a developmental program. Wins and losses shouldn't matter. All players should get a substantial amount of playing time so that when it's time to move up to Varsity it's clear who deserves it.
I also believe that if a player makes the Varsity team he should be able to play. If he's good enough to make the team then play him. If the player is riding the bench then he shouldn't be on the team. Don't give him false hope. or if the kid is a Sophomore, send him back down to JV. Every team plays other programs that are not quite as good. The 'secondary' players should be getting at-bats and mound time. I understand that this is competetive ball. But there are many opportunities to use all of the players. It also continues with their development.
I also believe that if a player makes the Varsity team he should be able to play. If he's good enough to make the team then play him. If the player is riding the bench then he shouldn't be on the team. Don't give him false hope. or if the kid is a Sophomore, send him back down to JV. Every team plays other programs that are not quite as good. The 'secondary' players should be getting at-bats and mound time. I understand that this is competetive ball. But there are many opportunities to use all of the players. It also continues with their development.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2Slim:
Curious as to the 'involvement' that other area JV programs have with their Varsity programs. IMO both JV and Varsity coaches should be constructively and regularly communicating together about the development and welfare of the BB program as a whole; i.e., player development, pitcher development, positions played, etc., focusing on the ultimate goal of building and establishing a solid program for both now and in the future.
Currently, Son is in a 'program' now that borders on the dysfunctional....loads of talented players, yet little to no communication between the two head coaches regarding player development...or anything else for that matter.
Current observation is that the JV program exists on its' own 'island', so to speak, with a 'win at all cost' philosophy vs. building a solid HS program through active and structured development of the young talent currently on hand. QUOTE]
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This is an interesting discussion. Not knowing who your Varsity Coach is I am going to assume that he knows something about baseball or he would not be the Varsity coach. So in regards to players being sent down from the Varsity to the JV in order to get playing time… this tells me he is concerned with the health of his program and that he is talking to his JV coach and that he doesn’t have a win at all cost attitude. After all by sending sophomores down to the JV to get the playing time they need in order to help the Varsity team as "Juniors" sounds to me like the Varsity coach is (using your words) "building a solid HS program through active and structured development of the young talent currently on hand."
If this is not the case then why did he not cut these "substandard" (again your words/ not mine) players?
Curious as to the 'involvement' that other area JV programs have with their Varsity programs. IMO both JV and Varsity coaches should be constructively and regularly communicating together about the development and welfare of the BB program as a whole; i.e., player development, pitcher development, positions played, etc., focusing on the ultimate goal of building and establishing a solid program for both now and in the future.
Currently, Son is in a 'program' now that borders on the dysfunctional....loads of talented players, yet little to no communication between the two head coaches regarding player development...or anything else for that matter.
Current observation is that the JV program exists on its' own 'island', so to speak, with a 'win at all cost' philosophy vs. building a solid HS program through active and structured development of the young talent currently on hand. QUOTE]
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This is an interesting discussion. Not knowing who your Varsity Coach is I am going to assume that he knows something about baseball or he would not be the Varsity coach. So in regards to players being sent down from the Varsity to the JV in order to get playing time… this tells me he is concerned with the health of his program and that he is talking to his JV coach and that he doesn’t have a win at all cost attitude. After all by sending sophomores down to the JV to get the playing time they need in order to help the Varsity team as "Juniors" sounds to me like the Varsity coach is (using your words) "building a solid HS program through active and structured development of the young talent currently on hand."
If this is not the case then why did he not cut these "substandard" (again your words/ not mine) players?
quote:Originally posted by 2Slim:
As an example: The top 3 players (both offensively & defensively) on the team are freshman and, on more than one occasion, have been 'bumped' from the game, lineup, or position for substandard sophomores that were 'sent down' on game day from varsity. Their subpar skills are very obvious and IMO, they were entered into the game for no apparent reason other than the JV coach 'had to get them into the game' because they were sophomores. This is, of course, a complete contradiction to the 'win at all costs' philosophy described in the original post....but is indicative of yet another facet of the previously described program dysfunction.
You just described what a Coach would do who is developing players. I'm not sure what your concern is. You stated earlier that there is a win at all costs, then you state players who are "substandard" are being put in. Maybe you should let the coaches do the coaching and sit and enjoy watching your son play.
quote:Originally posted by greenmonstah:
You just described what a Coach would do who is developing players. I'm not sure what your concern is. You stated earlier that there is a win at all costs, then you state players who are "substandard" are being put in.
Exactly my point.
I don't understand a "substandard sophomore" being on Varsity in the first place...I can understand occasionally moving down a sophomore Varsity player who is a backup, but not why a weak sophomore would be placed on Varsity...
BTW on the Northern Region comment about the home / away aspect of the games, I agree it would be nice if they could be played back to back, but that could make for a fairly long evening compared to games that can be run on a set schedule. In the case of my son's HS, Varsity and JV practice together on non-game days and I am sure the coaches are talking frequently. I know the Varsity Head Coach shows up at any JV games when Varsity isn't playing and the JV HC does the same for Varsity games too. I would guess that they see what they need to see in practice and the JV coach is keeping the Varsity coach updated on the games. The kids obviously are learning the same things since it is a mixed practice...
BTW on the Northern Region comment about the home / away aspect of the games, I agree it would be nice if they could be played back to back, but that could make for a fairly long evening compared to games that can be run on a set schedule. In the case of my son's HS, Varsity and JV practice together on non-game days and I am sure the coaches are talking frequently. I know the Varsity Head Coach shows up at any JV games when Varsity isn't playing and the JV HC does the same for Varsity games too. I would guess that they see what they need to see in practice and the JV coach is keeping the Varsity coach updated on the games. The kids obviously are learning the same things since it is a mixed practice...
I'll also add that the HC counts on his upperclassmen to help instill "the Oriole Way" kind of attitude to the younger guys. Practicing together really helps that and helps him develop team leaders...
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:
2Slim,
You have a private message.
Got it....thanks.
Back to the OP for a minute or two...
IME, "it"(development or not) really depends on the overall program. If the Head Coach understands that development is critical, and oversees both the Varsity & JV programs, communicates w/JV & V coaches, and builds players, well, you'd be fortunate.
Again, in my experience, the vast majority of "Head" coaches, well, aren't. It's a job, maybe a couple of extra $$, it's fun, something to do, etc.
If you want to know how the HC operates, look at their records. A history of success for a given coach/program = good organizational, communication, and developmental skills. Programs that don't win many games/year, well "dysfunctional" is as good a word as any.
IME, "it"(development or not) really depends on the overall program. If the Head Coach understands that development is critical, and oversees both the Varsity & JV programs, communicates w/JV & V coaches, and builds players, well, you'd be fortunate.
Again, in my experience, the vast majority of "Head" coaches, well, aren't. It's a job, maybe a couple of extra $$, it's fun, something to do, etc.
If you want to know how the HC operates, look at their records. A history of success for a given coach/program = good organizational, communication, and developmental skills. Programs that don't win many games/year, well "dysfunctional" is as good a word as any.