Anybody know anything about K-State and its program, coaces, facilities, etc...? Any comments would be appreciated. Also, does anyone know anything about their prospect camp scheduled for Aug 1-2??? Thanks in advance...
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Only thing I know is local kid went there as an 86 mph RHP and was drafted pretty early out of there this year as a mid-90s relief guy.
His father posted on a local message board about his son's development and gave the coaches a nice load of the credit.
His father posted on a local message board about his son's development and gave the coaches a nice load of the credit.
My son attends KS and plays baseball. If you still are looking for some insight and information, I am happy to fill you in on what I know. It's all good. IM me. Thanks.
My son played there and just transferred this summer. He was one of 9 players from last season's roster that made the very difficult decision to not return. Note they were not in a situation where they were asked not to return, they simply chose not to endure the mistreatment and misrepresentations by the Head Coach any longer . . . for most, this came about due to having their scholarship's reduced or taken away, being told one thing and having something totally different occur or, worse, not being told anything as the lack of communication within the program is monumental, etc.
I also learned of several other players who were just told literally on Saturday, just two days prior to the first day of school last week (yes, 48 hours prior to and upon having just arrived back at school for the Fall semester) that their scholarships were NOT going to be renewed for the year. Classy move, huh? Lots of options to explore at that point for those boys, right?????? It is truly a shame as my son absolutely loved the University itself, the city of Manhattan, all of his teammates, the great facilities, the incredibly supportive KState fans, and overall the entire Athletic Department which is a first class outfit . . . but the baseball program has significant leadership issues and the fact that the underlying coaches and support staff appear to jump at the first chance availed them to "improve" their situation would appear to tell the tale.
Rampant turnover in any situation belies an underlying problem, be it in the form of both players and/or coaches in this instance, and this fraudulent leadership situation will no doubt be unearthed soon. I am completely aware that this is very strong sentiment and know that it is not being offered lightly nor without having been given much thought. I am not typically the type of person who takes to a forum to voice their thoughts but if my taking this tact saves one player or family from experiencing what we endured at the hand of this man the past two years, it will have been worthwhile. And, this is easily supportable and can be corroborated.
After much thought, I made the decision to come on here and accurately represent the facts as we experienced them as you simply cannot play the games with young mens' lives he does and not pay the price eventually. Dashing hopes and dreams as he does routinely and wantonly is incorrigible and I, for one, felt compelled to make people who may find themselves in a similar situation as we were several years ago to maybe know "the rest of the story". I've bitten my tongue long enough.
I utilized this forum when our son was going through the recruiting process and found it to be a valuable resource. I'm sure someone has had a better experience than we did and they are welcome to tell their story. I also am sure someone will do some poor man's sleuth work and take it upon themselves to point out some apparent rationale as to what the "real story" here is (i.e. my son pitched poorly, he was a disappointment and I am just bitter, I am looking to deflect, etc.) and that is to be expected . . . it's simply not at all accurate nor in any way, shape or form correct. Our son knew he made a mistake based on how this program was run BEFORE he pitched an inning for this guy . . . he could be Cy Young and the POY in College Baseball and this would all be exactly the same.
IM me for additional information as I respect this forum too much and have realized WAY TOO much good from the HSBBW to have any moderators seek me out for crossing any lines or for admonition . . . thus I'll stop there. Thanks.
I also learned of several other players who were just told literally on Saturday, just two days prior to the first day of school last week (yes, 48 hours prior to and upon having just arrived back at school for the Fall semester) that their scholarships were NOT going to be renewed for the year. Classy move, huh? Lots of options to explore at that point for those boys, right?????? It is truly a shame as my son absolutely loved the University itself, the city of Manhattan, all of his teammates, the great facilities, the incredibly supportive KState fans, and overall the entire Athletic Department which is a first class outfit . . . but the baseball program has significant leadership issues and the fact that the underlying coaches and support staff appear to jump at the first chance availed them to "improve" their situation would appear to tell the tale.
Rampant turnover in any situation belies an underlying problem, be it in the form of both players and/or coaches in this instance, and this fraudulent leadership situation will no doubt be unearthed soon. I am completely aware that this is very strong sentiment and know that it is not being offered lightly nor without having been given much thought. I am not typically the type of person who takes to a forum to voice their thoughts but if my taking this tact saves one player or family from experiencing what we endured at the hand of this man the past two years, it will have been worthwhile. And, this is easily supportable and can be corroborated.
After much thought, I made the decision to come on here and accurately represent the facts as we experienced them as you simply cannot play the games with young mens' lives he does and not pay the price eventually. Dashing hopes and dreams as he does routinely and wantonly is incorrigible and I, for one, felt compelled to make people who may find themselves in a similar situation as we were several years ago to maybe know "the rest of the story". I've bitten my tongue long enough.
I utilized this forum when our son was going through the recruiting process and found it to be a valuable resource. I'm sure someone has had a better experience than we did and they are welcome to tell their story. I also am sure someone will do some poor man's sleuth work and take it upon themselves to point out some apparent rationale as to what the "real story" here is (i.e. my son pitched poorly, he was a disappointment and I am just bitter, I am looking to deflect, etc.) and that is to be expected . . . it's simply not at all accurate nor in any way, shape or form correct. Our son knew he made a mistake based on how this program was run BEFORE he pitched an inning for this guy . . . he could be Cy Young and the POY in College Baseball and this would all be exactly the same.
IM me for additional information as I respect this forum too much and have realized WAY TOO much good from the HSBBW to have any moderators seek me out for crossing any lines or for admonition . . . thus I'll stop there. Thanks.
di d not one of the assistant coaches just take the head coaching slot at MARYLAND
The bottom line is that it is very tough everywhere, very competitive and not everyone can win the job. And the higher a player advances, the tougher it gets. Sometime, I think the best outcome is for all but the very best players to have a great high school experience and then move on.
What is most surprising is that when a kid goes to a school, has a great baseball experience but still is miserable. That is a situation I will never understand -- and it happens very frequently.
What is most surprising is that when a kid goes to a school, has a great baseball experience but still is miserable. That is a situation I will never understand -- and it happens very frequently.
Yes, their Associate Head Coach and an Assistant Coach both took better positions with Maryland. Both were at KState as coach's for two seasons. Neither was on staff when my son committed as Coach Szefc replaced Coach Sawyers and Coach Vaughn had just retired from pro-ball and came back to his alma-mater to finish his degree, get married and get into coaching. Both good guys, especially Rob who the players really liked. He played for Coach Hill at KState and then coached with him, as did Drew Biery who was in a similar capacity, upon leaving pro-ball yet neither is still there and Rob opted to leave and take a job with a Coach who he knew for a year . . . and left his alma-mater to do so.
quote:Originally posted by cannon315:
I also learned of several other players who were just told literally on Saturday, just two days prior to the first day of school last week (yes, 48 hours prior to and upon having just arrived back at school for the Fall semester) that their scholarships were NOT going to be renewed for the year.
By rule 15.3.5.1, D1 colleges must inform each scholarship player whether their aid is being renewed by July 1.
15.3.5.1 Institutional Obligation. The renewal of institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability shall be made on or before July 1 prior to the academic year in which it is to be effective. The institution shall promptly notify in writing each student-athlete who received an award the previous academic year and who has eligibility remaining in the sport in which financial aid was awarded the previous academic year (under Bylaw 14.2) whether the grant has been renewed or not renewed for the ensuing academic year. Notification of financial aid renewals and nonrenewals must come from the institution’s regular financial aid authority and not from the institution’s athletics department.
In other words, either what you learned isn't exactly the whole story, or these players have real recourse available to them. It is possible for coaches to "run off" players, but just cancelling their aid would require a conspiracy at the university generally.
Cannon, I'm sorry for your son's less than pleasant experience. College assistant coaching positions, not just baseball, turn over a good bit. Coach Scefz recruited my son 8 years ago, is on his third job since then and he is widely considered to be a good coach and successful. To be fair, Rob Vaughn left a volunteer position at K-State, taking a paid position at UM with Head Coach Szefc.
Dad04, to be fair, my son's experience with both of them was and is not at all an issue. He had very little interaction with both, given he became a pitcher only during his freshman year. And, I completely understand and respect a Coach bettering his situation by virtue of taking an enhanced position. My only issue where the other Coaches were concerned was just that there seemed to be an abundance of comings and goings during his time there and I was simply wondering out loud if that was at all related to the matters affecting the players, mainly my son. And, as a point of clarification, I believe Rob was offered a paid assistant job with KState as well. I prefer to bow out of that part of the discussion with that point as, I was simply answering TRhit's querry . . . thanks.
Sometimes players and coaches move for similar reasons, sometimes they don't. Players and coaches do move quite a bit. Transfer and roster rules were changed to stabilize rosters, with some success. It's too bad your son wasn't given a chance to grow into the job. Most guys gain confidence and improve with experience. Best of luck. Either way, I'm sure his best days are ahead.
cannon315,
Sorry to learn of your son's situation. It sounds like he has endured quite a bit in his two years there. We met many years ago when our son's played travel ball together. Your son is very talented, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he finds a better situation and program. All of our best wishes going forward.
Sorry to learn of your son's situation. It sounds like he has endured quite a bit in his two years there. We met many years ago when our son's played travel ball together. Your son is very talented, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he finds a better situation and program. All of our best wishes going forward.
It amazes me how these things can develop and when it is best to be patient and when it is best to make a change. And how do you know? The toughest part is that the change might not have the intended result. Time is so short, as it is, that any decision that does not work out as planned can carry a big price.
Kind of confused, help me out here.
cannon,
One year ago you posted that your son attended and to contact you, it was all good.
Exactly one year later you are trashing the coach, and the program.
I am not sure why you brought it up here and also commentd about it on another topic.
I understand that not all programs and situations are perfect, but to identify and trash a coach and his program just doesn't belong on this site.
JMO.
cannon,
One year ago you posted that your son attended and to contact you, it was all good.
Exactly one year later you are trashing the coach, and the program.
I am not sure why you brought it up here and also commentd about it on another topic.
I understand that not all programs and situations are perfect, but to identify and trash a coach and his program just doesn't belong on this site.
JMO.
TPM,
I will have to disagree. This particular section of the board is to ask about Colleges and I believe that many, myself included, would like to hear honest (even if biased) opinions about schools, programs and coaches. If this is just to stroke the ego of programs and coaches, then this board offers no value.
I will have to disagree. This particular section of the board is to ask about Colleges and I believe that many, myself included, would like to hear honest (even if biased) opinions about schools, programs and coaches. If this is just to stroke the ego of programs and coaches, then this board offers no value.
OA5II,
It is a matter of perspective.
I think TPM's question is a legitmate one. The comment made by cannon315 was "it' is all good" back on 8/18/11. Possibly cannon315 was posting that to protect his son who was still in the program at that time, but unhappy. It would have been suicide for him to post anything negative at that time.
I also think cannon315 gave us some insight into the dirty laundry of a program (and coach) on 8/26/12. His comments about "buyer beware" should be noted. If my son was considering this program....this is a perspective I would want to hear before making a decision. There seem to be a lot of "comings and goings" in this program.
It is a matter of perspective.
I think TPM's question is a legitmate one. The comment made by cannon315 was "it' is all good" back on 8/18/11. Possibly cannon315 was posting that to protect his son who was still in the program at that time, but unhappy. It would have been suicide for him to post anything negative at that time.
I also think cannon315 gave us some insight into the dirty laundry of a program (and coach) on 8/26/12. His comments about "buyer beware" should be noted. If my son was considering this program....this is a perspective I would want to hear before making a decision. There seem to be a lot of "comings and goings" in this program.
Fenway,
I agree 100% with your post right there.
I agree 100% with your post right there.
Very simply a pm could have been sent.
For every college asked about here over the years anyone could come up with a horror story. If it were me, I would have just stated the program seemed to be in an unstable state. If I have a vendetta that's my issue and I would NEVER leave impression my sons injury was someone else's fault.
JMO
For every college asked about here over the years anyone could come up with a horror story. If it were me, I would have just stated the program seemed to be in an unstable state. If I have a vendetta that's my issue and I would NEVER leave impression my sons injury was someone else's fault.
JMO
tpm----you are out of line-----
No you are out of line I have a right to my opinion. Cannon and I have exchanged pms initiated on his part. He understands how I feel as I do him.
Mind your own business.
Mind your own business.
tpm--- so do those you criticize---and who made you class monitor
We are "very" close with brand new assistant Mike Clement. I certainly can vouch for him as an outstanding person and good baseball coach/recruiter. He came from Texas A&M, but he's an Iowa boy.
Time to jump back in and play a little catch up . . .
fenwaysouth, thanks for the nice things you said about my son. Also, I appreciate you pondering the possible rationale behind my apparent "flip flop" of opinion . . . let's just leave it that you are very wise in that particular regard.
As for TPM, she made come very good points in our private exchange which compelled me to "stand down". I then determined that, to continue to vent in an open forum about my son's own personal situation, was no longer going to happen. Bad things happen to good people and he will survive and prosper.
PGStaff, obviously we still have many contacts within the program and my son many good friends/teammates still playing there and we have heard exactly what you indicated to be the case with Coach Clement. Your vote of confidence in him speaks volumes to me as you've thought highly of my son over the years and I believe you got THAT right! LOL. Here's wishing him and the players, fans and supporters of the Cats nothing but the best in the future. We've swapped one KSU for another and early returns are that it will work out well.
You know, I certainly didn't intend to get any back and forth back biting going by making my thoughts and feelings known about the HC at Kansas State and hope this post stops that from continuing.
Finally . . . I do firmly believe that this site, a fantastic resource to be sure, truly does need to have both good and bad opinions and experiences outlined here as that is precisely why folks like myself were and are drawn to the various postings to begin with. If someone has gone through something not so positive within a given program, with respect to this particular topic heading, why shouldn't there be an awareness created . . . awareness as defined by someone telling of their individual experience . . . just so as to give another angle or perspective? I have to believe that if someone was considering Kansas State seriously and came upon my posting, it wouldn't end up to be the reason they determined to head in another direction. I would think and hope, frankly, that maybe they would ask more deeply rooted questions of the administration and coaching staff and even go as far as to query them on the strategy they deploy for scholarship renewal or how the HC views this issue or that. Then, I will have succeeded in accomplishing part of my objective when initially coming on the site and posting what I did. The other part, as TPM accurately pointed out to me, was better left for a different setting or venue. Thanks.
fenwaysouth, thanks for the nice things you said about my son. Also, I appreciate you pondering the possible rationale behind my apparent "flip flop" of opinion . . . let's just leave it that you are very wise in that particular regard.
As for TPM, she made come very good points in our private exchange which compelled me to "stand down". I then determined that, to continue to vent in an open forum about my son's own personal situation, was no longer going to happen. Bad things happen to good people and he will survive and prosper.
PGStaff, obviously we still have many contacts within the program and my son many good friends/teammates still playing there and we have heard exactly what you indicated to be the case with Coach Clement. Your vote of confidence in him speaks volumes to me as you've thought highly of my son over the years and I believe you got THAT right! LOL. Here's wishing him and the players, fans and supporters of the Cats nothing but the best in the future. We've swapped one KSU for another and early returns are that it will work out well.
You know, I certainly didn't intend to get any back and forth back biting going by making my thoughts and feelings known about the HC at Kansas State and hope this post stops that from continuing.
Finally . . . I do firmly believe that this site, a fantastic resource to be sure, truly does need to have both good and bad opinions and experiences outlined here as that is precisely why folks like myself were and are drawn to the various postings to begin with. If someone has gone through something not so positive within a given program, with respect to this particular topic heading, why shouldn't there be an awareness created . . . awareness as defined by someone telling of their individual experience . . . just so as to give another angle or perspective? I have to believe that if someone was considering Kansas State seriously and came upon my posting, it wouldn't end up to be the reason they determined to head in another direction. I would think and hope, frankly, that maybe they would ask more deeply rooted questions of the administration and coaching staff and even go as far as to query them on the strategy they deploy for scholarship renewal or how the HC views this issue or that. Then, I will have succeeded in accomplishing part of my objective when initially coming on the site and posting what I did. The other part, as TPM accurately pointed out to me, was better left for a different setting or venue. Thanks.
Cannon,
Well said, particularly under less than perfect circumstances. Wish your son nothing but good things at new KSU.
Fwiw, my son played travel with a couple of current Kansas St players, one of whom he was very good friends with. I noticed he didn't play much last year as a soph and was curious about what could have happened. Very good player, great young man. Wish him well too.
My only comment is I agree 100% that you need to do your due diligence on any HC when reviewing a school. However most HC's are pretty scarce on the recruiting trail and even after you commit.
Talking with a HC is really not much of an option so other means would have to be used to learn about the real HC.
Reviewing all the guys who played travel with my son and their baseball journeys in college, it's amazing how the different paths that they've taken. It's not an easy journey under the best of circumstances. Personally my son couldn't be happier with his situation, however if he wasn't playing, he'd be miserable.
Again, good luck to your son.
Well said, particularly under less than perfect circumstances. Wish your son nothing but good things at new KSU.
Fwiw, my son played travel with a couple of current Kansas St players, one of whom he was very good friends with. I noticed he didn't play much last year as a soph and was curious about what could have happened. Very good player, great young man. Wish him well too.
My only comment is I agree 100% that you need to do your due diligence on any HC when reviewing a school. However most HC's are pretty scarce on the recruiting trail and even after you commit.
Talking with a HC is really not much of an option so other means would have to be used to learn about the real HC.
Reviewing all the guys who played travel with my son and their baseball journeys in college, it's amazing how the different paths that they've taken. It's not an easy journey under the best of circumstances. Personally my son couldn't be happier with his situation, however if he wasn't playing, he'd be miserable.
Again, good luck to your son.
