Keeping one's mouth shut

Nice post 2Bmom. Sounds like a typical HS program. Now that you got that off your chest, suck it up and enjoy the season.

Grab a fungo and get some "quality time" in with 2B on the side, your not going to have him much longer so see it as an "opportunity".

quote:

suck it up and enjoy the season

Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head. It felt good to vent, though.

It is my understanding that scouts and coaches look for athletic ability and for position players production at the plate before anything else. In fact, most college players will be listed as INF, OF, P etc. Another fact is many players in college don't even play the position they played in HS.

It really doesn't matter, don't let yourself or your son get caught up in all of this, season hasn't even begun yet. When he moves to his travel team, which normally gets more attention in FL, it will be good if he shows versatility.

2Bmom, Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
The one reason I started posting on the HSBBW, and conveying my thoughts.
Is because I had No control at the HS level.
Either with the coach are my player.
It just wasn't my game anymore.

I came here to vent and get Group Therapy from those who have been there before.
The HSBBW has not disappointed me.

Hang in there 2Bmom, all will be good.

Thanks All.

EH

Maybe, the new coach wants to raise dues so he can hire another coach with some experience.

We raised dues one year because we were not sure how our new fundraising would go, I see no problem with that, if he has expenses, don't you have a booster or fundraising club?

It sounds like the applicant pool was limited, esp. for the assistant positions. Possibly budget issues there, too.

In any event, there never was, and still is not, anything you could have or can do about any of that.

As for 2B vs. SS, you never know. The asst's brother may well end up at 2B, or even biding his time on the bench. It might all depend on who looks best at the positions in practices. Or who is older and therefore more ready (e.g., with the stronger arm needed for SS). I wouldn't get upset about that unless and until your worst fears are realized. Who knows, the guy may turn out to be a dream for you.

We had a TERRIBLE head coach through Midlo Son's soph. year. He left and they gave the job to his assistant. We feared more of the same old stuff. NOT SO! Turns out the assistant had chafed under the old regime as much as the rest of us. He handled the team magnificently and in fact we won 2 state championships in Son's JR and SR years. Moral: give the guy a chance before you worry yourself to death.

Two qualifications:

It is not for any coach to decide to whom your son will talk or when. Your son should visit him and insist that he be informed of all talks going on about him with colleges. It doesn't have to be confrontational. "Hey coach, I heard some colleges have been asking about me. Can you fill me in? Can I see what they've sent you?"

If coach rebuffs your son, then an approach from you could be, "Hello coach, I think there must be some misunderstanding. 2B Son and I would like to be completely in the loop when it comes to his college recruiting. Can you tell me what all is going on?" Baseball recruiting is not just about baseball, it's about educational goals and family budgets, and that makes this your business no matter what anyone says. Your son is a minor and you are his parent and that puts you in charge.

Second, I understand that when it comes to running the team, coaches want parents to sit in the stands and cheer and otherwise butt out. But if they're asking you for money, or to raise money, you are entitled to speak up on that topic. Just keep it civil. They are likely facing funding shortfalls during the recession we're in. But then, you might be, too, so that point should be made. You have a right to see the program budget if you're being asked to pay for it.

P.S.

There are things the coach might be asked by college coaches that are confidential -- e.g., whether your son is a good egg or a trouble maker. Those kinds of things you don't get to see, they are not included in the discussion above.

2BMom,

You prompted me to post here for the 1st time ... ever! I have been reading great stuff from you and the other experienced and helpful folks, for over a year now and have gleaned some real nuggets. Your experiences track where we were with my son last year and I must agree that sitting back and letting it play out is the best strategy. Seeing how quickly situations change at this level/age is amazing. A year ago we were trying to figure the best way for him to crack the starting line-up in his coming Junior year while we forged ahead with his Showcase and Camp schedule. Funny how this stuff works but he actually received interest from College coaches before he ever played an inning of Varsity HS baseball as they saw him at a Showcase. He did get his chance to play and had a very good HS year. Then came Summer Travel and lots of exposure, even more success and finally the College signing opportunity that was just a dream this time last year.
Interestingly enough, not a single College Coach/recruiter had any interest in talking to his HS Coach(es) and a few even commented that often "they (HS Coaches) have their own agenda." They further went on to say that " they independently track players for a give number of games, at-bats, etc, and make their own determinations." Of course, as you talk to them they all see different qualities in our player. Versatility on defense and hammering the baseball is key for position players (good grades, SAT a definite plus)! Coaches tend to project where they can players into their program needs. Not a single College Coach plans to use our son at his HS primary or even secondary position. They all, however, plan to use his bat!!

Good luck with your Season and thanks for a "moms" insight into things ..... a well seasoned/informed Mom at that!!

Sounds pretty typical. As long as he's on the field it is all good. One year a second baseman sat as a junior so a coach's son could start as a senior. Unfortunately, he was injured between his junior and senior seasons.

When CASon was a freshman the freshman coach was a kid who had just graduated from the school. The coach's best friend's younger brother was the starting 2nd baseman, team captain and leadoff hitter. He totalled 2 hits for the season and got out of the way of throws to 2nd base. Meanwhile 2 pretty solid 2nd basemen sat the bench. Eventually the other players drove the kid out of the program, more because of how he acted in the team captain's role than his lack of talent.

BTW, my impression of how he's dealing with the college coaches is that he's trying to help your son more so than many coaches would.

quote:

We are a small school, Division 1-A, and the level of competition will not be the same. But it will still be fun if I can control my mental game.

My son also plays small school baseball and I am very happy with the situation. After reading about some of the big school politics, I just get happier, even though I know it's not the best baseball...

Our assistant coaches are very much like what you describe (a player from last year, the HC's son, and the Jr Hi coach because there isn't a Jr Hi team)....but there is no doubt our HC runs the show...

However, our HC doesn't have any kids on the team and doesn't even teach at our school, which is a plus IMHO. The parents and school admistration are very supportive and there has been very few problems.

The HC has also told us that there has been some inquiries about our son but hasn't elaborated. He felt it was 'too early' for us to worry about it...so I don't...

I'm excited about son's upcoming Jr season. It will be the first where he's been 100% (he played hurt as a freshman, had surgery last November but still played as a soph, but not at 100%). This is the first off-season he's been able to work out. He's already added 20 lbs and grown over an inch since last season. He won himself a starting spot on the basketball team (even though he's never played BB before... this is 1A where being a good athlete is sometimes enough...)

I'm just going to relax and enjoy the season since HS baseball, even big school HS baseball, is not that important in the overall scheme...I think we're going to attend a PG event next month so we can see where he's at...

I don't beleive that the coach has to tell you who has been inquiring about your son, if they are truely interested, they WILL contact your son. There are reasons why coaches do not contact players immediately.

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True story...

Local player did some youth travel ball...but focused on football and had a great football career at a small HS. Played baseball only during the season and was talented but unknown...coaching staff was in great turmoil every year...charges of bias/favoritism/underacheivement flew in the stands and local message boards were red hot. As I remember it, coaches son played SS...The Player went into his very first Showcase(a minor regional one) as a 2B...offered and verbaled on the spot that day with a top 30 DI...played last summer in The Cape...aligned now with Boras.

44
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quote:

Originally posted by Hawk19:
The HC has also told us that there has been some inquiries about our son but hasn't elaborated. He felt it was 'too early' for us to worry about it...so I don't...

While it's nice that you have a good relationship with the HC, I would want to be on the "same page" regardless of what he has determined what the correct time frame is. This can be done respectfully and without a lot of hype and fanfare. I'm not a big fan of hanging a bone out. JMO

quote:

Originally posted by 2Bmom:

We did not actively support this coach for the HC position, and we did not actively campaign against him. We weren't asked for our opinions by anyone involved in the process, and didn't give them. Our opinion is that he has been an assistant long enough for us to believe that there were better choices. The search committee had a few parents on it, but all parents of starting varsity players (except for the coach himself) were excluded from the decision process.

Most certainly this coach will now be able to see how you feel about him after posting on a high school message board. It isn't very hard to find out who you are with what you have posted (and your avatar.)

quote:

2B moved over to SS this fall for his travel team, and did well in a very competitive environment. It is true that he got his first looks playing 2B. Still, it is pretty much common knowledge that scouts look at the SS first. No scouts are going to come to our HS games, but an infielder can't get enough reps. It's a question of continuing to get better and being ready for a very important summer 2010. And also helping the HS team.

Opinions?

My opinion is if your son is good enough to have scouts looking at him, that you don't have anything to worry about. I believe he will earn his time on the field and the coach will play him to help the team. He has a son on the team so he doesn't want the team to fail. And the catcher that is his son earned the position in past seasons, correct?

Last opinion -- I know this board is a good place to sound off, but I am of the opinion that if your son doesn't want to talk about it, he probably doesn't want it on a message board for his new coach to read. That is all.

quote:

Not a single College Coach plans to use our son at his HS primary or even secondary position. They all, however, plan to use his bat!!

I agree with this, because you will play if you hit, and it may be a position you have never played before.

I'm not sure how different high school BB programs are funded, i.e. by the Athletic Dept, school, etc. but several years ago at our HS a parent team meeting was called and from that a Dugout Club was formed with a Pres, VP, Treasurer, and Secretary.

Our school has a "general fund" in our Athletic Dept that each year gives the BB program a certain amount of $$ to operate. It's minimal but to be honest it suffices. As long as you don't want new uniform's each or every other year, practice gear, new bats, helmets, etc.

Our Dugout Club fee for each player at the beginning of each season is $150. It's been the same for as long as I can remember. This is applied to any kid in our program, i.e. 8th grade, 9th grade, JV, and Varsity. This affords our HC each year the priviledge of purchasing those things that are necessary. Maybe not complete uniforms, but new pants. Maybe a homeplate mat or 3 new bats, 6 dozen new practice balls, etc.

This year we are having our 6th annual Christmas tree sale where we sale very nice Frazier firs and typically make anywhere between $6K - $10K each year. This fundraiser is ran by our Dugout club.

I say all that to say this. If you don't have any kind of Dugout club now, call a meeting and form one. It takes a HUGE load off your coach from having to make any financial decisions, and it lets you parents stay more in tune with the Coaches needs/wants each year. Trust me, he'd rather be making baseball decisions instead of financial ones!

P.S. 2bmom, if it makes you feel any better, we too were VERY concerned with our coaching situation after younggunson's Sophomore year. Low and behold, the HC is fired during the offseason and we hire one of the top HS baseball coaches and minds on the East coast!

quote:

Since he became HC, he told us that a couple of colleges expressed an interest in 2B. He asked us for information (GPA, test scores, contact info, etc.), but he will not tell us the nature of the contact (questionnaire, phone call?), and says only that "they will get back to me. I will keep you informed." I am told that this coach is virtually unknown in scouting circles. All of the recruiting materials that have come to my son have been addressed to 2B himself, either c/o the high school, or to his email address, or by snail mail to our home. So this bothers me.

Your HC already has contact info for you. If you feel the need to control the situation then tell the HC that you only give out the grade/test info yourself directly to the interested party. Tell them you would be happy to do it using the online transcript sender. They will have it within hours.


Personally, I would not care one bit about schools contacting my HC about my kid. I would only care about when they contact my kid... Then I would feel the need to know and respond.


What your son needs to do is play like someone is watching every minute of every day and study so that when a college HC contatcts you then you can respond.

If you do that then none of the rest matters.

Focus only on what you can control. The rest of it is just noise, dont let it bother you.

Yáll are most awesome. Thank you for your insights. I feel a lot better! To answer some questions:

We don't have a booster club. The coach and the school's business office run everything. We will ask for a budget when the time comes. Honestly I don't mind paying or raising the money. Just want to know what it's for.

There was actually a pretty good applicant pool. There are lots of good baseball people in Florida. I am not sure what happened, but I will give the coach credit - he has hung in as an assistant for many years.

Kokomojo, our coach knows exactly how I feel. There are no secrets. But he also knows that I'm not going to spend half my life in the AD's office or the director's office trying to cause trouble for him. And he also knows 2B can hit. Whatever I think of the decisions he has made, I don't think anything I say on a message board, as long as it's not slanderous, is going to affect what he thinks is best for the team. I have only written the truth. Sprinkled with an opinion or two.


I'm signing out for the night. Thanks, everyone!

2Bmom, I'm going to add my 2 cents and then a couple of other pennies...

The only real question you had in your first post was that there was nepotism and lack of communication, and it's not a real big deal "Is it?"

Well, the answer is, no, it isn't really a big deal.

As far as your son's talent, position matters little if at all. College coaches and scouts look for talent, athleticism, attitude, work ethic, grades, long before they worry about where the kid is playing. Most scouts/coaches are experienced enough to know that MOST kids don't play in college the position they played in high school. IF your son only plays 2b all year, it really won't concern a scout/coach who is interested in him.

As far as the nepotism: Has this gentleman PROVEN that he is ok with nepotism? Or are those players related to his assistants perhaps decent players? And isn't there some room for disagreement about who deserves to play? If I understand your post, the season hasn't even started but you are aligned to find this coach uncommunicative, nepotistic (real word?), and unknowledgeable. I will say MOST of my assistant coaches have been younger than me over the years and with less coaching experience.

Now with regard to some other issues:

And I hope this doesn't come off as a personal attack, because it is not meant that way. But I was going to respond to your other post "HS Dream Coach", and didn't get a chance. Then when I went through this thread, I thought I'd bring up some things that I feel I'm seeing "between the lines."

First, you have condemned this coach before he has coached his first game, just because he is "only" an assistant who got the head coaches job. Where is it written that a long-time assistant will not do a good job? I see a coach who sticks around for that long as someone who loves the game and loves coaching. Whether he is a good head coach remains to be seen, but he certainly has dedication to the school....and isn't THAT part of his job?

And for goodnessake! Give the guy a chance! When I got my head coaches job, I was 29 years old and had never been a head coach, just an assistant for 3 years. I got the job over a former major league player who chewed out the AD for making such a bad choice. Fifteen years later, we have multiple league titles and regional championships, only 1 losing season, and I was named the state coach of the year in the big school division. Oh, and that guy who didn't get the job? Both his sons later played for me before playing D1 ball, and he came and coached with me because he felt I did such a tremendous job (His words, not mine).

I'm not saying these things for self-promotion,(can't, no one on this board knows me!) I'm making the point that not every high school coach is some idiot gym teacher who only cares about his friends' kids playing, or getting some extra cash. It is an attitude that permeates this board, and sometimes I just can't bite my tongue any longer.

You also kind of "tee off" on the assistant coaches. I agree, it would be wonderful to have experienced, former college or pro guys as assistants. It's just very rare to find them and hold on to them. There is little (or in my cas no ) pay, and so you will typically get young guys who are on their way to moving up. Once they get offered a better, or higher paying job, or get a head coaches job, they are out of there. So you have to go looking again to find someone. Again, don't pre-judge. They probably won't bring as much to the table as an older guy, but they still may be able to teach.

Next, why does it matter if the coach won't tell you about what he tells the college coaches? You say:
"I know HS ball doesn't really matter that much" and that this is just a "fun" season. And that the coach isn't known or respected in scouting circles. If those are all the case, then why would ANYTHING he has to say mean ANTHING to ANYONE? He's a no-name coach in a no-talent school who doesn't play good caliber ball, so why does his input on your son's talent matter anyway? Your son has his summer team and showcases, so you shouldn't need anything from the school coach at all, right? Another one of your quotes from the OTHER thread was: "But it's only January - May. Then 2B goes back to the coaches we trust".... You're right, I SHOULD bend over backwards to help you because you value me so much (Sorry, sarcasm added)

I would never blackball a player to college coaches, but if I'm YOUR coach and I know how dismissive you are of my program and my abilities, it would take some level of control for me not to snap at you if you then came to me and complained that I wasn't doing enough for your son. If he doesn't come to my offseason workouts or conditioning and he's going to be seen "nationally", then I would feel it better to work hard for the less-talented kid who is on my team and really NEEDS the help to get exposure. Do you really not see the incongruity in your argument?

I also have a problem with your suggestions that the parents should have been "consulted" about who should be hired. Isn't that really up to the AD? Maybe I'm skewed because I coach at a private school and there is no board or committee, just an AD and Principal who make the decisions. But there is no way a group of parents should be consulted to give their wishes on who gets hired. If the AD knows some of the parents and values their opinions, I think talking to them is a great thing, but only if the AD feels it is helpful to him making the right choice.

As for your son playing SS: Again, you are precluding that he even has a chance to play there. Which means you are conceding the position to the coaches brother. That either means (1) he is better than your son at SS (2) the TEAM is better with him at SS and your son at 2b, or the kid isn't nearly as good as your son at SS, and (3) the HEAD COACH is either a terrible manager or (4) he is too scared to tell his assistant that his little brother doesn't get the job.....but it can't be (4) because you state in your other post that the head coach "bullies" the assistants.

2bMom, I don't mean to go off on you, but as I read your two posts I have to tell you that all the things you say lead me to believe that I would find you one of the parents that I would probably want to avoid. You appear to know better than this coach on all points at all times. Maybe things just came out that way in your posts (lord knows what some will think of me for this post), but you seem as if you've already named yourself judge, jury and executioner for the new coach without giving him much of a chance. And again, if this school program is as bad as you seem to think it is, don't worry about it and focus on that which you feel is important and valuable: summer ball.

I DO think that your attitude of leaving 2b out of it because he wants to deal with it on his own is excellent. He's a big boy now and he obviously has a good head on his shoulders and can deal with whatever someone throws at him.

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"They all, however, plan to use his bat!!"

I certainly hope they give it back!

Seriously Prime9...that was a great first post. Welcome aboard the HSBBW and keep us posted on your son's progress.



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My son is being trained by a coach that coached collage for many years and actually coached in the NY Yankee system for several years also, has two world sereies rings 1996 and 1998 and as I stated in my Politics post it is my first year in the high school ranks so I had some concerns like that but more of my lack of expirance. He told me that many high school coaches especially in my area don't develope the talent as they grow; good coaches are able to develope talent and put a winning team on the field...
It is true that if you hit you will play he did say but it is very important that you hit mechanically correct because a good hitter in high school does not equal a good hitter in collage and that is why so many high school baseball super stars **** out in collage when they get the opportunity to play at the next level. this is why I'm glad I took things in to my own hand and did not leave it up to the uncertainy of the high school coach and his assistants even though the season has not begun and they pretty much know who and what they are going to do this season and no matter what, Jr. is working very hard and should turn some heads...

PS 2Bmom Gainsville isn't that far off Jr. played a couple off tournements up there in Gainsville this past year... Probably to young, 14U.

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TCB1,

I enjoyed reading your honest and heartfelt assessment of the situation. I agree with 2Bmom on some points and with you on others. Like 2Bmom, we ran into some rough patches with our sons' HS coach. He's gone now...back to the gridiron.

I do appreciate your honesty, your experience, and your willingness to put it out there for the rest of us to benefit from.

I know that some baseball team at a private school somewhere in Ohio is fortunate to have you as their coach. Your AD fifteen years ago made a good choice. And I think the ex-major league player, who lost the job to you, knows his sons got the better deal with you coaching them.

My only question to you regarding your post...where did your two cents leave off and your other pennies begin?

Again, thanks for your honest input.




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And war dog...welcome aboard too!




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2bMom, some of my favorite posts are the ones where people explain their concerns and fears in a humble manor while looking for advice or support. I apprecicate your honesty. Many of us have the same concerns so the resulting posts can be helpful to many posters.

Having concerns and handling them maturely is the biggest part of a parents role in sports and and in life. Gathering information about a problem is part of the problem solving process.

My 2 cents:
1. Give the coach a chance, you will learn a lot more about him this year than his previous years as an assistant. My son's school had the same situation last year, assistant promoted to HC. Many of the HC in our area are not necessarily baseball lifers who can really teach the game. What I have come to value is the coach doing the right things for the right reasons. The new HC does this much better than the one he replaced. The players knew it and responded positively to him and the team had a lot of success. Maybe this will happen at your son's school also.

The one thing that is very frustrating is lack of communication. This causes concern and contempt IMO. It's very easy for the coach to mention to your son when a college coach asks about him. I believe if a kid knows he is being noticed he will stay focused and put is best effort forward, which will only help the team. Win win for the player and the coach.

2. The young assistants may be the result of a small school not having the money to pay more experienced coaches. Again maybe young guys will bring a fresh attitude to the team.

3.To use a golf analogy, junior year is moving year. The most important year IMO. A lot of things can and will change this year. The most important thing is for your son to be ready to play his best. If this happens all the concerns you have now will disappear by May. If he hits it won't matter where he plays and he will be noticed by the right people.

It seems to me you have handled your concerns well. You did not lambast the coach, polute your sons attitude or complain to the school admin. Good luck to your son. Let us know how things look in June.

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"To use a golf analogy..."

Where's the tree? Where's the fire hydrant? Where's the Cadillac Escalade? Where's the sand wedge? And most importantly...where's the wife's backswing?




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If the coach is telling you who is in fact contacting him about your son, then it is not a big deal if he does not share the content of their conversation. IMHO he ought to share it but not crucial. You can simply contact those schools on your own and ask them what they thought of your son. If he withholds completely who has contacted him then I have a huge problem with that. I know there are some coaches out there that try and decide what level their players are. Thus, if they decide you are a D2 player and a D1 coach calls and asks, they will try and downgrade the player in order that they do not lose any credibility with the coach. IMHO, it is not the head coach's call where a player will play. They should be a transparent conduit of information. If a college coach calls they must have seen something. No need for the head coach to diminish their enthusiasm.

I would let the shortstop concerns go. You cannot read minds and you have no idea if nepotism or other politics are in play. If your son's games are lightly scouted to begin with there will be no harm in that regard. Regarding the issue of whether he is devloping his skills to the fullest extent for the next level then perhaps take a step back and think about what you are saying. A "team" is not about any one individual. There is no way a coach should be favoring one player for the next level while forgoing the best interests of the team.
To give one example, it is possible the kid who is playing shortstop is a lousy second baseman. Thus even though your son might technically be the better shorstop, it makes more sense for the team to play the other kid there. There could be a hundred reasons like these.

I think keeping one's mouth shut is excellent advice. Even better advice is to quit worrying about things that are outside your control.

TCB and CD - great advice!

Got Wood ..... thanks for the Welcome and kind comment.

TCB1 .... as a newbie, it appears to me that the value of this "Board" is the broad experience base of those posting. I see advice from Parents, parents who have coached, Coaches, Coaches who have parented AND it's all good, well intended info! Your coaches view point was both revealing and right on. 2bMom may not have considered "your perspective."

Wardog, welcome to you and couldn't help but notice you are from the home of the famous (or infamous) Dr. Mike Marshall. I'm old enough to remember his playing days, know his history, his teachings and have met with him in your fine city. What an interesing but controversial guy!!

Sure will be glad when February gets here and Play begins!!!!!

Just a couple of thoughts:
. Your coaching staff has experience and youth... they might do a fantastic job.
. Secondbaseman that hits 7-9; you are right he won't get the same kind of look as a shortstop. but if 2b hits in the 3 or 4 hole he will.

The Hitting or the Pitching is what will get you noticed.
They will put you in the line up were ever they need you, and our were the best fit is.

EH