Lack of Production and TJ Surgeries

Very good question, bballman. I'm interested in hearing opinions as well. I think that there is probably/possibly a correlation, but I'd imagine it'd be nearly impossible to measure how big that correlation is.

 

I hadn't even thought about it in that direction, but seems like a logical thought.  I read something recently which was asking exactly the opposite question... if it was possible that some of the TJ uptick might be related to guys having used PEDs along the way as younger players... Since damage to ligaments is among the known side effects of steroid use specifically.  I don't know enough about it to know if either or both are possible... But both are interesting questions. 

That could be true. I am of the opinion that, while steroids should definitely be banned, HGH therapy shouldn't be put into that same category.

To add to this, I wonder if it's possible that in an effort to "clean things up" in regards to the use of PEDs, that the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater.  I understand that the use of PEDs is quite a controversial topic.  But are there substances that have been/could be used to promote better health and recovery/prevention from injury no longer available because they have the hint of being "performance enhancing"?  Where is the line drawn between a product being used to "bulk up" and get unnaturally strong and using a product that will help an athlete recover from the incredible rigor of a major league season?  Is the use of new technology in terms of the overall health of the human body to be disregarded for the rest of time because it could be construed as performance enhancing?  

 

I hope you see what I'm getting at.  Do you all think there is a difference between maintaining a healthy body and producing, perhaps an overly strong body?  This may be a completely different question, but I think it may go along these lines in regard to player health and the increase in TJ surgeries.  Just more food for thought.

Personally, I've never been bothered by the "performance enhancing" aspects of some of the banned substances. My objection is to thos PED's which have dangerous side effects. Steroids, to me, weren't bad because they improved performance. They were bad because they were extremely unhealthy and we were headed into a baseball subculture where players were being forced to risk their health in order to compete. If they were to develop a pill tomorrow that magically allowed everyone to hit the ball 50ft further, but had no damaging side effects, I'd have no problem with it. It's how I feel about HGH. HGH has tremendous upsides, health-wise.

 

The problem is that too many focus on the enhanced performance problem. baseball, much more than any other sport, is statistic based. One of the great things about baseball is that, unlike other sports, we have ways of comparing players of different eras - statistics. we can argue whether Babe Ruth was better than Miguel Cabrera because most things are even. Sure, there are better training methods, recovery knowledge is greater, etc., but basically it's always been the same. Can't do that with football. We can argue that Stan Musial could be teleported through time, step on a field today and compete but we sure can't say the same about Red Grange or Bart Starr. PED's are a threat to that reality and some don't like it for that reason. No one wnated to see the Babe's home run record beaten by someone who had advantages.

roothog,

You said" HGH has tremendous upsides, health-wise"

 

I would hate for some of the young... pre HS or HS or college players on this site to read this the way I did.  Maybe not your intention.  But HGH taken for sport purposes is very unhealthy.  There are ligit reasons for HGH to be given to a person under a Doctors care, but would hate for a young ball player to read that and rationalize that buying HGH at the local gym or elsewhere would be healthy for them while giving them a boost in baseball production.

But, if the right kind are used and used properly, are they not beneficial?  I'm no expert, but aren't there different kinds of steroids?  I believe anabolic steroids are used to induce bulk.  But doctors routinely prescribe "steroids" to enhance healing after injury.  Are these harmful as well?

 

And if there are substances like this that help with healing and health, I'm sure there are others out there available on the open market to the general public that could be good for the athlete to use to promote health that they cannot use because of ingredients that are on the banned list.

 

Personally, I fear that MLB may have gone so overboard with this philosophy that a player cannot use newly developed products to stay healthy, not increase performance but health, because by using these substances, they can prolong their career and stay more healthy.  Since the players of yore did not have them, they could not overcome their injuries the way players today can and therefore you cannot compare numbers.

 

I think some of this kind of relates to the original topic, but kind of strays.  Back to, is it possible that because steroids and all PEDs have been cracked down on, players are not healing and TJs have increased and production has dropped?

Definitely agree.  NFL is trying to get HGH under control as we speak.  I'm not knowledgable enough to know the pros and cons of HGH.  Per the OP, or maybe in opposition to it I guess, I wonder if athletes using HGH to pack on more muscle, more mass, more force for joints and ligaments to contend with isn't potentially part of the TJ problem.  Haven't read that anywhere specifically about HGH, but seems like a logical possibility to my pea brain.  I tend to believe that there's a natural balance to the body... To be artificially augmented at your own risk.

Great topic!

 

I have "personal" experience, and opinion.  First opinion - I don't know that PED's necessarily would lower the numbers of TJ, or ACL injuries, etc., although ligaments are not bones, they are also not muscles, and the ability to prevent or repair torn, or frayed tendons IMO is not as beneficial as building muscle, although I may be wrong, just my thought.

 

On a personal level, I had a complete UCL tear.  Reported fall Freshman year of college (1985) weighing 150 lbs., everyone else was huge in comparison.  I was red-shirted, and realized what I thought "was all that" in HS, was not much in college, and if I wanted to get on the field, my body was going to have to change.  By mid spring Freshman year, I weighed 185 with almost zero body fat.  I could lift, and lift, and lift, and never wore out....body would repair FAST!  During the next Fall baseball season, my UCL tore, had to have "the" surgery.  Problem was that the tendons could not, or were not ready to support the added strength, and muscle.  So in my case the "enhancement" caused the torn UCL.  

 

There are still non-banned substances that absolutely have the same effect as PED's, so they are still being used, at least until they get on the banned list.  So it is always a race that the NCAA, and pro sports will always be a step behind.  While it is not as prolific, nor I would add, as potent, PEDs are still being used both legally, and illegally.

HGH, like any supplement, if taken in conjunction with other things can have side effects. However, HGH has fewer and less complicated side effects than ibuprofin, tylenol, aspirin, etc. It is beneficial to anyone who competes in activities that cause tissue damage and has less cause for worry than anti-inflammatories. Somehow, we've labeled it a PED and suddenly, it's frightening. Why shouldn't someone take it just for sports effect recovery? Now, you shouldn't be buying anything off the street and probably shouldn't take any supplement without knowing how it interacts with other things you may be taking. This is something banned mostly for it's performance enhancement qualities than for health reasons. And, I absolutely believe it could help with pitchers.

I actually agree with you. I believe that sooner than later you will see a reverse on HGH use.

 

I believe because of the crack down on PED, steroid injections for inflammation and HGH, that when a player finds out he needs surgery he just gets it done.

 

In other words IMO, there is a correlation. 

 

I am at a loss for the exact name of that blood transfusing therapy but it is becoming more popular and EXPENSIVE, so the guys with the mega bucks get an edge.

 

FWIW my daughters BF had serious shoulder surgery, HGH was part of his recovery phase, under a doctors care. 

Absolutely agree on the HGH issue. I see no reason a player in rehab cannot take advantage of something that can help him recover. Where I would disagree Roothog is that I do believe HGH is performance enhancing in the fact that you will get bigger, you will get stronger. That was one of the properties of pro-hormones, to help increase growth hormone. But aside from the abuse of it which can/is being addressed I see no reason an injured player should not be able to use it if they disclose its use.

TPM are you talking EPO?

I cant remember what it is called, but if that's it yeah.

I think that a player under a doctors care for injury might be ok.

FWIW there are players that do take performance enhancing drugs, but because it is prescribed by a doctor AND APPROVED by MLB that would be ok.

That would include players using such things as Ritalin and testosterone.

So a player recovering from surgery or a very bad injury should be given a fair shot.

 

JMO

There is platelet rich plasma but that is legal.it has healing properties.

I think what TPM is referring to is the EPO that bicyclists like Lance Armstrong were/are doing to enrich oxygen in blood.

I know what it is. I cant believe players would do this. The viscosity of the blood increases and increases chances of heart attack and strokes. Lord if you need this stuff hang up the cleats..

I was referring to the other as it aides healing, isnt harmful and isn't illegal.

I think many people would be surprised as to what players will do to get the golden ticket. 
But....I was referring to what fan is talking about.