LeBron vs. Koby

Lebron is a very talented player. However, I dislike stats such as "youngest player to.." Lebron, as most know, came straight from high school and was very good very early.

A better stat for comparing players is how many games it took to reach the milestone (Whether it be 20,000 points, 5000 assists, etc.). I do not know the stats,but if that's how Jordan, Lebron, and Kobe were compared it would not be so different.

Also, I don't understand how people talk about the rivalry between Kobe and Lebron. First of all, they are not in the same conference and rarely play against each other. It's not like the Bulls and Pistons used to be, or the Cardinal Cubs now. The media seems to fabricate a rivalry because it's easy to do. Cavs have Lebron, Lakers have Kobe; both are at the top of their game so let's make a rivalry out of it.

I cannot bring myself to call Lebron the greatest of all time. It's way too early. He is an outstanding player who has already accomplished a lot, but he does not have the career of a HOFer. In the end, it may be hard to argue that he is the best ever, but at this point I am unwilling to commit myself. Similar to Pujols in baseball-may become the best ever, but needs to keep production up for more years.

Greater than Kobe, yes I agree. Greater than MJ...no way. MJ was the leader in those 6 ring achievements. Kobe's been the leader on just 1. For LeBron, it's just a matter of time...he'll get his rings.

You ever notice how easily people throw around the word "great" and the phrase "greatest ever"?

To say Kobe and Lebron are "great" is appropriate but to say "greatest ever" is a big stretch because the criteria isn't there. It changes from one person to another person. I say MJ is the grestest ever because I was in high school and college during his highest point but you can say the same thing about Magic, Bird, Russell and several others.

Also, the NBA is all about trying to find the "next" MJ or Magic or Bird or Russell or whoever. Why can't we have the next *insert name here*? The next part might be controversial but I think David Stern was the best and worst thing to happen to the NBA. He was great because he elevated the status of professional basketball to where it is today. A multibillion dollar a year industry and he pretty much is the mastermind behind it.

He's the worst thing (IMO) because he allowed the NBA to move from the team identity to individual player identitiy. I remember back in the early to mid 80's when it was Lakers vs. Celtics. Then in the late 80's to mid 90's it became Magic and the Lakers vs. Jordan and the Bulls OR Jordan and the Bulls vs. Drexler and the Blazers. Now we have Kobe vs. Lebron with no mention of the Lakers or the Cavs.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Greater than Kobe, yes I agree. Greater than MJ...no way. MJ was the leader in those 6 ring achievements. Kobe's been the leader on just 1. For LeBron, it's just a matter of time...he'll get his rings.

I agree Husker and its only a matter of time for LeBron!

It's hard to compare eras. If today's players tried to sky down the lane thirty or more years ago, the defense would have knocked them to the floor or the second row instead of the Olay defense that's played today. No one cruised the lane on Jerry Sloan and Norm Van Lear when they played for the Bulls. The Celtics defenders would drive players into the seats.

Sure each new era is going to have more athletic players. But attitude and intensity is a true measure that can be used from generation to generation. Man to man from front to back of the roster and team to team, intensity in the NBA isn't what it used to be.

It is impossible to compare eras, but I actually believe defense has become much more important these days than it used to be.

Back in Jerry Sloan's playing days, NBA teams scored much more. The games were higher scoring and they didn't have the 3 point shot. Nearly every team averaged 110 points or more in the 60s.

There was a game in 83 where 370 points were scored. This year over half of the teams are giving up less than 100 points a game.

IMO, Lebron is the only one now playing who could surpass Michael Jordan as the greatest player ever, but it will still take him awhile to get there. BTW, where's Gary?

I wonder why so many people omit Magic in these "greatest" discussions---he and Bird were the keys to making the NBA the game it is now--Magic was a great team player who sometimes gets lost in the shuffle

Good points about the defense. Anyone notice who guarded LeBron last night? Ron Artest who many consider one of the best and toughest one-on-one defenders of this or any era. Lebron put up 37 on him last night. He also had about 10 assists while playing point guard much of the night since Mo Williams is now injured. The best description of him I have heard is he is like Magic Johnson in Karl Malone's body. He can also jump like Dr. J and yes he weighs over 260 lbs.

I dispute that either Jerry Sloan or Norm Van Lear would have been willing to stand there and take a charge from LeBron. My reasoning is simple that you never see anyone doing it. When LeBron goes to the hole, sure there is hacking and handwaving going on but you don't see anyone planting their feet and taking one for the team.

The reason I like LeBron so much is that he is perhaps the most unselfish athlete I have ever seen. It is all about the team and winning with him and he still puts up better numbers than anyone else while making sure everyone else gets theirs. The only comparable players to his all around game are Jordon and Oscar Robertson imho. There is a record out there that I think he has a shot at and that is Oscar's averaging a triple double for a season.

quote:

Originally posted by johnny appleseed:
Lebron, as most know, came straight from high school and was very good very early.

So did Kobe.

PG- "Defense much more important these days" ?

Putting aside the marquis games like Lakers vs Cavs has anybody actually watched the NBA the past few years? Literally they walk around the floor doing practically nothing most notably on defense. They don't care about anything but the next paycheck. It's astoundingly bad basketball. I cannot see how anyone can pay money to watch that product.

How can any one compare the current game with the likes of the Celtics, Bulls, Lakers, Piston teams of 15+ years ago. Not even close.

I think the NBA is in trouble.

Specifically regarding Lebron, no doubt he is a great talent, one of the best ever, but for some reason I don't like to watch him play. Not even sure why. Maybe because he does things that I'm not accustom to watching a guy his size do (the physical freak factor is too great to overcome), but he's not fun to watch for some strange reason.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I wonder why so many people omit Magic in these "greatest" discussions---he and Bird were the keys to making the NBA the game it is now--Magic was a great team player who sometimes gets lost in the shuffle

Magic should not be omitted from the conversation. Neither should Kareem or Wilt or Jerry West or name your guy. For me, it is the combination of skills/size that makes my argument and the fact he was successful on day 1 out of high school in the NBA. Nobody has more NBA points for someone his age. There probably aren't many who have more rebounds or assists at that age either. Moses Malone might have him on the rebounds but that is probably it.

quote:

Originally posted by Beezer:

quote:

Originally posted by johnny appleseed:
Lebron, as most know, came straight from high school and was very good very early.

So did Kobe.

Beezer did you read the linked article? They compare LeBron's and Koby's numbers out of high school and they are not all that close.

igball,

Teams now days score much less than years ago in spite of the 3 point rule... that means they are playing better defense or worse offense, the way I see it.

And next to when Jordan was playing, the player I always enjoy watching the very most is Lebron James. He is unbelievable. I wouldn't know anyone you can compare him to. There have been a lot of truly great players, but no one quite like this kid.

The thing I dislike the most involves guns in the locker, rape charges and all the gangster art work all over the bodies. That and the fact fans voted Allan Iverson as a starter in the all star game.