Lefty Pick-off move

The beauty of being a lefty is, you can vary your moves. Use both and mix 'em up.

What reasoning does coach use for this change ? Taking the knee back toward throwing shoulder is an accepted practice, is there another problem ? What is your son's move to first like ?

He's a HS freshman and they haven't even seen him in a game yet. These are just indoor workouts. It's much easier for a lefty with a move to first. It's always been good and he keeps runners close. The coach did say something to the effect that the umps would say he was being deceptive and call a balk. However, he can't go to first only if the foot crosses the rubber not the knee.

i have been fortunate to teach several good lefties. i try to teach them to bring the knee towards the shoulder to disrupt the runners read. what we teach our runners is to read the gap between his legs. when he's going home there generally is no gap because he's loading his hips, with a gap he's stepping 45 degrees to 1st base. my lefty pitchers keep the same look by bringing the knee to the shoulder. by doing this they accomplish a couple things #1 the same technique. their muscles do the same thing every time, less likely for a mechanical mistake and #2 makes it difficult for our opponent. i have one kid where he picks guys standing and has them diving back when he throws home. but I think the most important key is make it one set of mechanics. i've had opposing coaches crying balk, but i see it as understanding every word of the rule, and we get our foot as close to the rubber as possible. and no, we have NEVER been called for a balk!

Turnin2 that is what he tries to do also. I will let my son read the post. Thank you. Now I guess the question is how to explain this to the coach without being labeled. What is a kid to do who wants to make a team?

attend practice, watch your son throw his bullpen or do his mechanical work with the coach. ask the coach to meet, be curious and receptive to the coaches ideas, yet express what he's worked on and ask his opinion on that. also, be supportive of the coach, knowing he has a interest in your son...if that doesn't work call me, i could use another lefty!

Hopefully your son has been taught to use this same leg motion during the windup as well. While the motion as described is not a balk, using the same motion from the windup will help "establish" his stretch. Suggest he give what his coach is asking for a "try", make the team, then go with what he knows in game action and hope the coach can recognize his abilities.

From what I've heard and also read on this site for a parent to approach a coach that is just not done. Quite frankly I don't want to be involved it's his problem and he needs to handle it. We will discuss it and hopefully figure out how the conversation will go before he gets into it.
He does have a similar motion in the wind-up too. However, I think the coach is really trying to simplify everything to the point that he will be hurting their improvement and not helping them to get better.

Half the Parents feel the way you do. That is why you and the rest don't approach the coach. Some are not keen on people second guessing the. Listen to him and the go back to the way you like after the season starts.

My pick-off was my specialty. I was brought into games the day after I had pitched for the sole purpose of picking a guy off. I am not trying to brag I just truly believe I developed a near perfect move. One thing I am a firm believer in, is bringing the right knee toward the back shoulder. It makes it nearly impossible to bring any part of your leg past the BACK edge (which is the rule) of the rubber and still allows you to have great mechanics to the plate. If he works hard it will nto be called a balk. I pitched plenty of games with a three umpire crew at the college level and never had a balk called other than 1 my sophomore year in high school. And he was wrong! Good luck and keep developing that move. It can get you out of a lot of tough jams.

Your move must have been awesome. He had a good move but I think got a little cocky because he would pick guys off and they stopped running. However, this past year there were a couple of steals bascially because he just ignored them. So now I've convinced him to use it as a weapon just as you did. The coach though wants him to go straight up with the leg and not angle to the back shoulder. He does what they tell him in practice but knows what to do once game time comes.

quote:

Originally posted by bb1:
My son's coach wants him to pick his leg straight up in the stretch position. Meanwhile his pitching instructor also a lefty who pitched AAA last year has been teaching him for a couple years to angle the leg back without the foot crossing over the rubber. This is not a balk. It also helps keep the hips involved in the delivery. What do you do? I know everyone says listen to the coach but what if the coach is wrong? Is it like rule 1 the coach is always right and rule 2 if the coach is wrong see rule 1? Shouldn't kids be allowed some own individuality?

Reverse-rotating the hips can help a guy get a little more oomph on his pitches by helping his hips rotate ahead of of shoulders. The coach may not realize this.

Ok, I'll bite painguy. How exactly does increasing the distance the hips must rotate help the hips get ahead of the shoulders ?

I think what was meant was by bringing the leg back on an angle you do get your hips involved. Lifting the leg striaght up there is much less hip action and theoretically less power because you're only using your arm. Which brings up another point because doing things that way you probably have more chance for injury.

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
Ok, I'll bite painguy. How exactly does increasing the distance the hips must rotate help the hips get ahead of the shoulders ?

First, you have to understand that most (e.g. 80%) of a pitcher's velocity is generated by the muscles of the hips and torso, not their shoulder or arm.

Reverse-rotating the hips can make it easier to get the hips rotating well ahead of the shoulders and can enable them to more powerfully pull the shoulders around.

quote:

Originally posted by thepainguy:
First, you have to understand that most (e.g. 80%) of a pitcher's velocity is generated by the muscles of the hips and torso, not their shoulder or arm.

Wrong.

I would say it's more in the neighborhood of 50/50 maybe slightly more favoring the arm.

If I can throw 80mph from a full wind up, I could surely throw 40 mph facing the target, feet in "cement", and just throwing the baseball with my arm and not using any forward motion from legs or hips.

quote:

Originally posted by RobV:

quote:

Originally posted by thepainguy:
First, you have to understand that most (e.g. 80%) of a pitcher's velocity is generated by the muscles of the hips and torso, not their shoulder or arm.

Wrong.

I would say it's more in the neighborhood of 50/50 maybe slightly more favoring the arm.

If I can throw 80mph from a full wind up, I could surely throw 40 mph facing the target, feet in "cement", and just throwing the baseball with my arm and not using any forward motion from legs or hips.

What's your basis for this? What study backs this up?

Tom House has studied this and, while I don't agree with everything he says, I agree with him on this point.

Also, when throwing with your feet in cement, you are probably going to rely on the rotation of your torso, which makes my point.

How hard would you throw if you were to "throw like a girl" or throw darts with your Pitching Arm Side shoulder pointed at the target? Not very hard, I'd guess. That's not even a valid comparison because in that case most of your velocity is generated by the Triceps, which is flaccid during a high-level throw.

Study??

I don't need a study. I've done it in my basement. There may be some rotation of the torso, but only enough to reach back with the arm to throw, then to decelerate.

I think that isolates the arm pretty well.

No one throws a ball with their throwing shoulder pointed at the target. I could easily say "throw the ball with your hip or torso" then. How much velocity would that have?

quote:

Originally posted by RobV:
Study?? I don't need a study. I've done it in my basement. There may be some rotation of the torso, but only enough to reach back with the arm to throw, then to decelerate. I think that isolates the arm pretty well. No one throws a ball with their throwing shoulder pointed at the target. I could easily say "throw the ball with your hip or torso" then. How much velocity would that have?

Sorry, but there are a number of problems with your methodology.

First, when throwing at lower velocities, the internal rotation of the upper arm and the action of the Triceps play more role than they do at higher speed.

Second, people who "throw like a girl" point their pitching arm side shoulder at the target, which is one reason why they don't throw very hard. You're probably using your torso more than you realize.

Third, if you look at photos of high-level throwers, you will see that their hips rotate 45 to 75+ degrees ahead of their shoulders. This enables their hips to powerfully pull their shoulders around. You don't see this pattern, or see the opposite pattern of the shoulders rotating before the hips, in poor throwers.

Nothing wrong with my methodology, the problem is with your comprehension.

You getting away from the statement you made about 80% of the velocity coming from the body (hips, torso).

You're wrong, and by throwing the way I described proves that. It's at least 50% from the arm.

"Throwing like a girl" is just a poor way to throw a ball, it's not how people who reach high velocities throw, and to compare that to a high level throw is just nonsense and wordsmithing on your part.

Back to my original point, "reverse rotating" the hips will not help get them out in front of the shoulders as you implied. Taking the front knee back to the shoulder helps "set" the hips, allowing them to stay closed longer. When this move is timed properly it will in fact help many pitchers gain velocity increasing the "snap" of the hips there by increasing the torque of the torso by carrying the momentum of the stride deeper into the delivery. Hips simply opening before the shoulders will have your minions flying open and losing velocity. BTW, no still photos will help with this concept as the timing is key.

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
BTW, no still photos will help with this concept as the timing is key.

I agree with this wholeheartedly!

quote:

Originally posted by RobV:You're wrong, and by throwing the way I described proves that. It's at least 50% from the arm.

I'm curious about this "test". How do you define "arm"? I'm assuming you would include the entire musculature that supports/moves the scapular complex. Correct?

So, in your throwing test, were you able to completely stop your torso from rotating? Just isolate the "arm" assembly mentioned above?