Which team should I be watching out for in the legion season??? Which players will stand out and what is the toughest division? Who's The best manchester team? Who's the best team in the seacoast? Please respond
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I would say that legion results will closely mirror High School results.
i'm going hometown, i think portsmouth will be in the hunt. exeter is usually tough. dover can be a tuff game.
Although a strong high school season can translate to success in Legion there are a few factors that have an impact in Legion ball that can make a big difference:
1. Most Legion programs draw from multiple schools allowing them to outperform the hometown (base) high school of the Post
2. Returning college age players – sadly this option goes away in 2015, but until then eligible 19 year old returning college freshman can really bolster a team
3. How many of the best varsity players from the local high school commit to play Legion ball? Between showcase teams, work, vacations and extended “senioritis” some Legion programs aren’t an accurate reflection of their base high school
4. 9 versus 7 innings – you would be surprised how much happens in innings 8 & 9 and a Legion team really needs a bullpen and mentally tough players who can grind longer
5. Wooden Bats – although high school is BBCOR, NH Legion is now all wooden bat and it does impact the game – it makes certain types of pitchers more effective and certain types of hitters less effective
Having said that, look for strong seasons from Concord, Lebanon, Bedford, Goffstown, Nashua, Exeter, Portsmouth & Sweeney (Manchester Memorial), all of whom did well during the High school season. While teams like Laconia, Rochester (Spaulding), Dover and Post 79 (Manchester Central & Trinity) should also challenge for some of the reasons listed above.
1. Most Legion programs draw from multiple schools allowing them to outperform the hometown (base) high school of the Post
2. Returning college age players – sadly this option goes away in 2015, but until then eligible 19 year old returning college freshman can really bolster a team
3. How many of the best varsity players from the local high school commit to play Legion ball? Between showcase teams, work, vacations and extended “senioritis” some Legion programs aren’t an accurate reflection of their base high school
4. 9 versus 7 innings – you would be surprised how much happens in innings 8 & 9 and a Legion team really needs a bullpen and mentally tough players who can grind longer
5. Wooden Bats – although high school is BBCOR, NH Legion is now all wooden bat and it does impact the game – it makes certain types of pitchers more effective and certain types of hitters less effective
Having said that, look for strong seasons from Concord, Lebanon, Bedford, Goffstown, Nashua, Exeter, Portsmouth & Sweeney (Manchester Memorial), all of whom did well during the High school season. While teams like Laconia, Rochester (Spaulding), Dover and Post 79 (Manchester Central & Trinity) should also challenge for some of the reasons listed above.
I am a big supporter of Legion ball but one thing I really don't like is that they let anyone start up a post and then the kids from that town have to play for that post.
More and more teams pop up and that dilutes the talent of Legion baseball which is no longer all-star level. When I played legion my legion team drew from four large high schools and some small schools. There were only two players from my high school team on legion, the rest played senior babe ruth.
For example Merrimack puts in a new legion team this year, technically the kids who had been playing for Bedford could have come back and joined Merrimack if they wanted to. They obviously did not want too so the Merrimack Legion team loses Hudon, and other players that were on Bedford previously.
Bedford though loses out on players like Black, Gasper, Wojciak who now have to play for Merrimack based on legion rules. Now the Merrimack legion team is obviously sub varsity level and the Bedford team loses out on players that could have helped them replace Maher, Olen, Parker etc.
Both teams suffer in the end and the level of play is lower.
They also don't play enough games. My guess is Legion baseball doesn't last another 10 years as a viable option for serious baseball players in New Hampshire unless the leadership at the top makes changes.
More and more teams pop up and that dilutes the talent of Legion baseball which is no longer all-star level. When I played legion my legion team drew from four large high schools and some small schools. There were only two players from my high school team on legion, the rest played senior babe ruth.
For example Merrimack puts in a new legion team this year, technically the kids who had been playing for Bedford could have come back and joined Merrimack if they wanted to. They obviously did not want too so the Merrimack Legion team loses Hudon, and other players that were on Bedford previously.
Bedford though loses out on players like Black, Gasper, Wojciak who now have to play for Merrimack based on legion rules. Now the Merrimack legion team is obviously sub varsity level and the Bedford team loses out on players that could have helped them replace Maher, Olen, Parker etc.
Both teams suffer in the end and the level of play is lower.
They also don't play enough games. My guess is Legion baseball doesn't last another 10 years as a viable option for serious baseball players in New Hampshire unless the leadership at the top makes changes.
SMAN14, the problem is bigger than that.
The problem is lack of players. At the rate we are going there will be very little non-club baseball (Little League/Cal Ripken, Babe Ruth, Sr. Babe Ruth, Legion)in NH in 10 years. The numbers just aren't there.
I've noticed an overall lack of player and coaching performance at those levels. Although there are some very good coaches in non-club baseball, I have seen many who have no business being on a diamond.
High school rules limit the contact time between coaches and players, so playing high school ball is not where a player will have a chance to improve and develop (not enough time for instruction). The kids (and the parents) then seek out the better training/coaches, and end up playing club-ball. Once there, they usually stay.
The problem is lack of players. At the rate we are going there will be very little non-club baseball (Little League/Cal Ripken, Babe Ruth, Sr. Babe Ruth, Legion)in NH in 10 years. The numbers just aren't there.
I've noticed an overall lack of player and coaching performance at those levels. Although there are some very good coaches in non-club baseball, I have seen many who have no business being on a diamond.
High school rules limit the contact time between coaches and players, so playing high school ball is not where a player will have a chance to improve and develop (not enough time for instruction). The kids (and the parents) then seek out the better training/coaches, and end up playing club-ball. Once there, they usually stay.
I do not know much about district A, but from what ive seen, dover and Portsmouth seem to be the strongest in B. Dover has a lot of experience and some quality talent within the arms of Carlberg, Young, and Cash and the bats of Seawards, Soden, and Gardner.
Portsmouth is loaded with Pitching, hitting, and most importantly, defense. Errors will be at a minimum with them as long as Feeney, Hartmann, and Ben Gareau are in the infield. On the mound they have three strong starters in Dicesaire, Holt, and Jordan Bean (As of friday), to go along with a quality bullpen.
It will be interesting to see how the season fares out because i believe that most of the district b teams could hold their own in the State tournament
Portsmouth is loaded with Pitching, hitting, and most importantly, defense. Errors will be at a minimum with them as long as Feeney, Hartmann, and Ben Gareau are in the infield. On the mound they have three strong starters in Dicesaire, Holt, and Jordan Bean (As of friday), to go along with a quality bullpen.
It will be interesting to see how the season fares out because i believe that most of the district b teams could hold their own in the State tournament
SMAN – I don’t think any overall downturn in the quality of Legion ball in NH over the last several years has been a result of an increase of Legion teams in the state. The Bedford-Merrimack example is pretty much the only example where your premise would apply, at least in the last five years.
Here's some recent data: In 2008, there were 21 teams in NH; in 2012 there are 23 teams.
2009 - Bedford and Plaistow in, Merrimack out
2010 - No change
2011 - Raymond in
2012 - Merrimack in, Plaistow out
I went for the quick analysis, not having handy the numbers from pre-2008.
As Mauser notes, the growth of “club” programs, where high school players get to play more games and may get more exposure than playing Legion ball, has drawn these players away from their local Legion teams, thus reducing the overall quality of play. Good players didn’t leave Legion ball because the quality of play wasn’t good; rather, the quality of play isn’t good because good players have left. Mauser, I’m glad you qualified your statement regarding coaches. There are indeed some very good volunteer coaches in the local communities from Little League/Cal Ripken through Legion ball. The key question is, how do we identify the “good” coaches early on, and keep them coming back year after year?
Here's some recent data: In 2008, there were 21 teams in NH; in 2012 there are 23 teams.
2009 - Bedford and Plaistow in, Merrimack out
2010 - No change
2011 - Raymond in
2012 - Merrimack in, Plaistow out
I went for the quick analysis, not having handy the numbers from pre-2008.
As Mauser notes, the growth of “club” programs, where high school players get to play more games and may get more exposure than playing Legion ball, has drawn these players away from their local Legion teams, thus reducing the overall quality of play. Good players didn’t leave Legion ball because the quality of play wasn’t good; rather, the quality of play isn’t good because good players have left. Mauser, I’m glad you qualified your statement regarding coaches. There are indeed some very good volunteer coaches in the local communities from Little League/Cal Ripken through Legion ball. The key question is, how do we identify the “good” coaches early on, and keep them coming back year after year?
Don't you think that the level of play is down? In my area all the better players, (committed players) play summer ball on travel/showcase teams outside the state.
My feeling is that the returning college players should be playing on college summer teams, not against high school players. A college player is not going to get better or improve thier skills at that level.
Does anybody no how college players are on Legion teams, or play in summer college leagues?
I looked at the New Endland College Baseball League, with two teams in NH, there are only about 6 or 7 kids from the state.
I did see that Nate Jones (portsmouth hs, wakeforest) is playing for the Maine team.
There are two on the Laconia team and 3 or 4 on the Keene team.
My feeling is that the returning college players should be playing on college summer teams, not against high school players. A college player is not going to get better or improve thier skills at that level.
Does anybody no how college players are on Legion teams, or play in summer college leagues?
I looked at the New Endland College Baseball League, with two teams in NH, there are only about 6 or 7 kids from the state.
I did see that Nate Jones (portsmouth hs, wakeforest) is playing for the Maine team.
There are two on the Laconia team and 3 or 4 on the Keene team.
Since Legion is age based, should it really matter whether the 18 yr old is in high school or college? If the goal is to make Legion an extension of high school ball, then does it eventually disallow graduated seniors to play as well? If that 18 yr old returning from college cannot find another team to play on, then what's the harm of him playing Legion? It's at least something.
FWIW: Beyond the NECBL there's also the FCBL, which grew from 4 teams last year to 9 this year. They have roster rules to try to have/keep/attract local talent to their teams. Both of those are trying to attract D1/D2 players, which leaves not much for D3 players. I would guess there are more D3 level players coming out of NH than there are D1/D2... I think the Showcase League alumni page further proves that theory. If you cannot make an NECBL/FCBL roster, then the pickings are slim - Concord has the Sunset League... My son was able to hook on with a team in the Boston Inter-City League. There he's facing a mix of current college, recently graduated college, and well guys still trying to live the dream. Some of the rosters even have guys that made it into the Minor Leagues.
FWIW: Beyond the NECBL there's also the FCBL, which grew from 4 teams last year to 9 this year. They have roster rules to try to have/keep/attract local talent to their teams. Both of those are trying to attract D1/D2 players, which leaves not much for D3 players. I would guess there are more D3 level players coming out of NH than there are D1/D2... I think the Showcase League alumni page further proves that theory. If you cannot make an NECBL/FCBL roster, then the pickings are slim - Concord has the Sunset League... My son was able to hook on with a team in the Boston Inter-City League. There he's facing a mix of current college, recently graduated college, and well guys still trying to live the dream. Some of the rosters even have guys that made it into the Minor Leagues.
I had some time on my hands today so I did a little look see. The FCBL has nine teams, 18 players from NH and most are on the Nashua Nights, they also have league rules about pitching and rosters, they didn't provide any info about players that were or were not drafted.
The NECBL has ten teams, five players from NH. They also list 28 players that were drafted at some point, no roster or pitching rules.
Opinions? which is the better league for college kids to play on?
Also side note there was the SS from the Laconia team that was signed by the SF Gaints after a game last week. He left for AZ on Monday.
Are there try-outs for these leagues? How does the player get on these teams.
The NECBL has ten teams, five players from NH. They also list 28 players that were drafted at some point, no roster or pitching rules.
Opinions? which is the better league for college kids to play on?
Also side note there was the SS from the Laconia team that was signed by the SF Gaints after a game last week. He left for AZ on Monday.
Are there try-outs for these leagues? How does the player get on these teams.
As an FYI...I believe beginning in 2014, maybe 2015, Legion will be limited to high school players only. Returning college players will no longer be able to participate regardless of age.
The NECBL is supposed to be higher quality talent, but the FCBL will surely be close behind if they keep attracting top talent.
Not quite sure what the process is to get on a team. The FCBL did advertise some level of tryout both this and last year. The head coach's contact information is listed for each team on the FCBL website - that's another method. I'm sure there is also a bit of who you know going on. Beyond that having your college coach's connections couldn't hurt. How much you play in college, the stats, and the level of ball you play (not just division but level within division).
Not quite sure what the process is to get on a team. The FCBL did advertise some level of tryout both this and last year. The head coach's contact information is listed for each team on the FCBL website - that's another method. I'm sure there is also a bit of who you know going on. Beyond that having your college coach's connections couldn't hurt. How much you play in college, the stats, and the level of ball you play (not just division but level within division).
the coach doesn't really pick the players. the GM does. e=mail early in the fall if you want to play as they start looking then.
quote:Originally posted by Nativefan:
As an FYI...I believe beginning in 2014, maybe 2015, Legion will be limited to high school players only. Returning college players will no longer be able to participate regardless of age.
2015
Well, season is just about over and the usual suspects are at top of their district standings. The big mistery here is Nashua. For some reason the whole has turned out to be much less than the sum of the parts. I'm curious as to what may have led to this under-achievement.
quote:The NECBL is supposed to be higher quality talent, but the FCBL will surely be close behind if they keep attracting top talent.
i heard that a few more necbl teams may join the fcbl next yr. some difference of opinion about the necbl future plans being the reason. should be interesting.
quote:Originally posted by Mauser96:
Well, season is just about over and the usual suspects are at top of their district standings. The big mistery here is Nashua. For some reason the whole has turned out to be much less than the sum of the parts. I'm curious as to what may have led to this under-achievement.
Chemistry and Physics probably... Even if the pitching is there - you still have to hit - there was a stretch of 3 games where they lost 1-0 twice and won only 2-0 against Raymond. Fitting those parts together isn't easy...
Tournament time, Looks like a great field heading to Nashua.Sweeney has a horrific weekend. Goes in with a great chance to be the #1 seed and comes out eliminated. As a Salem parent I feel thier pain.Last year we did something very similar. Which begs the question, how does an 8-6 team qualify and a 10-5 team doesn't.Pitching as always will determine the outcome of the tournament. First round predictions...
# 1 Concord over #4 Londonderry
# 3 Rochester over #2 Goffstown
# 3 Bedford over # 2 Portsmouth - (probably the best pitching matchup..assuming Hudon vs Bean )
# 1 Salem over # 4 Post 79
good luck to all and heres to a great tournament and weather.
# 1 Concord over #4 Londonderry
# 3 Rochester over #2 Goffstown
# 3 Bedford over # 2 Portsmouth - (probably the best pitching matchup..assuming Hudon vs Bean )
# 1 Salem over # 4 Post 79
good luck to all and heres to a great tournament and weather.
quote:Originally posted by devildad:
Tournament time, Looks like a great field heading to Nashua.Sweeney has a horrific weekend. Goes in with a great chance to be the #1 seed and comes out eliminated. As a Salem parent I feel thier pain.Last year we did something very similar. Which begs the question, how does an 8-6 team qualify and a 10-5 team doesn't.Pitching as always will determine the outcome of the tournament. First round predictions...
# 1 Concord over #4 Londonderry
# 3 Rochester over #2 Goffstown
# 3 Bedford over # 2 Portsmouth - (probably the best pitching matchup..assuming Hudon vs Bean )
# 1 Salem over # 4 Post 79
good luck to all and heres to a great tournament and weather.
I agree with you on all games except for Bedford and Portsmouth. If this game is the pitcher's duel that we all are expecting, Portsmouth players have more experience with small ball and Portsmouth has a thicker bullpen, not to mention Bean blanked the components of post 54 in the State semifinals in school ball.
Rochester should be able to run around Goffstown, I have no clue about anything about post 79 so i will agree with you based on how i saw salem play against Rochester and Portsmouth, also Dionne should be able to mop the floor with londonderry.
That's why they play the games though!! Good Luck teams
re: 8-6 over 10-5...
Just remember the 10-5 team got to play the 0-14 team twice... On the last weekend, the 8-6 team beat the 10-5 team in a completed game...
I will agree with you that the divisional format isn't necessarily good; however, blame the NHIAA and their absurd 3 week playoff system for that.
re: Bedford v. Portsmouth
The difference from the HS season will be Hudon. I suspect it'll be a great game and agree some form of small ball will win it. I think the results prove Portsmouth could compete in D1 HS ball too, but that's for a different topic!!
Just remember the 10-5 team got to play the 0-14 team twice... On the last weekend, the 8-6 team beat the 10-5 team in a completed game...
I will agree with you that the divisional format isn't necessarily good; however, blame the NHIAA and their absurd 3 week playoff system for that.
re: Bedford v. Portsmouth
The difference from the HS season will be Hudon. I suspect it'll be a great game and agree some form of small ball will win it. I think the results prove Portsmouth could compete in D1 HS ball too, but that's for a different topic!!
Speaking of Portsmouth, I see that Jones, NECBL, and Montivolle, Cape League, are both having a tough summer.
Anybody have any further info on these guys? Injuries maybe?
Anybody have any further info on these guys? Injuries maybe?
The other teams also played the 0-14 team too, however; the 10-5 team did beat Salem, Portsmouth,and Bedford so I'm sure there's a better system out there, the one used now is far from perfect.
quote:Originally posted by JohnF:
re: 8-6 over 10-5...
Just remember the 10-5 team got to play the 0-14 team twice... On the last weekend, the 8-6 team beat the 10-5 team in a completed game...
I will agree with you that the divisional format isn't necessarily good; however, blame the NHIAA and their absurd 3 week playoff system for that.
re: Bedford v. Portsmouth
The difference from the HS season will be Hudon. I suspect it'll be a great game and agree some form of small ball will win it. I think the results prove Portsmouth could compete in D1 HS ball too, but that's for a different topic!!
I also forgot to add that the 10-5 team also beat Rochester too.
quote:Originally posted by 76Champ:
The other teams also played the 0-14 team too, however; the 10-5 team did beat Salem, Portsmouth,and Bedford so I'm sure there's a better system out there, the one used now is far from perfect.quote:Originally posted by JohnF:
re: 8-6 over 10-5...
Just remember the 10-5 team got to play the 0-14 team twice... On the last weekend, the 8-6 team beat the 10-5 team in a completed game...
I will agree with you that the divisional format isn't necessarily good; however, blame the NHIAA and their absurd 3 week playoff system for that.
re: Bedford v. Portsmouth
The difference from the HS season will be Hudon. I suspect it'll be a great game and agree some form of small ball will win it. I think the results prove Portsmouth could compete in D1 HS ball too, but that's for a different topic!!
Interestingly enough the 8-6 team currently leads the #1 seed Concord 3-1 going to the 8th (just ended a rain delay)...
Not a fan of the existing system - I think Salem got screwed last year and I think Sweeney got screwed this year. Last year a 7-7 team (Lebanon) made it over an 11-4 team. To me, that's worse than the 8-6 over 10-5 especially given the result. The more fair system would be to play everyone in your division twice. That would be 20 district games to fit in - a scheduling nightmare. It's hard enough for them to complete a 14 or 15 game schedule! Although if you "forced" everyone to play 4 7-inning double headers somewhere along the way, it would be possible.
Not a fan of the existing system - I think Salem got screwed last year and I think Sweeney got screwed this year. Last year a 7-7 team (Lebanon) made it over an 11-4 team. To me, that's worse than the 8-6 over 10-5 especially given the result. The more fair system would be to play everyone in your division twice. That would be 20 district games to fit in - a scheduling nightmare. It's hard enough for them to complete a 14 or 15 game schedule! Although if you "forced" everyone to play 4 7-inning double headers somewhere along the way, it would be possible.
Update: Concord 4 Londonderry 3 - 3 runs score in bottom 9 for the win.
Updates for those that are interested can be see from:
https://twitter.com/nhhssports
Updates for those that are interested can be see from:
https://twitter.com/nhhssports
Excellent point, great idea, 1 league ,1 division, play everyone once, then you could see all of the teams and the top 8 teams make it to playoffs. If you played everyone twice I think the scheduling would indeed be a nightmare.
quote:Originally posted by JohnF:
Interestingly enough the 8-6 team currently leads the #1 seed Concord 3-1 going to the 8th (just ended a rain delay)...
Not a fan of the existing system - I think Salem got screwed last year and I think Sweeney got screwed this year. Last year a 7-7 team (Lebanon) made it over an 11-4 team. To me, that's worse than the 8-6 over 10-5 especially given the result. The more fair system would be to play everyone in your division twice. That would be 20 district games to fit in - a scheduling nightmare. It's hard enough for them to complete a 14 or 15 game schedule! Although if you "forced" everyone to play 4 7-inning double headers somewhere along the way, it would be possible.
JR Legion Tourney also taking place this weekend at Gill... Day 1 results
Dover 7 Bedford 4
Hudson 3 Concord 1
Nashua 7 Bristol 2
Lebanon 5 Jaffrey 2 (upset of the day)
Tomorrow it's
Bedford v. Concord 1030
Bristol v. Jaffrey 130
Dover v. Hudson 430
Nashua v. Lebanon 730
I think the 5 years this has been taking place Hudson and Dover have been the only 2 teams to be in the playoffs each year.
Dover 7 Bedford 4
Hudson 3 Concord 1
Nashua 7 Bristol 2
Lebanon 5 Jaffrey 2 (upset of the day)
Tomorrow it's
Bedford v. Concord 1030
Bristol v. Jaffrey 130
Dover v. Hudson 430
Nashua v. Lebanon 730
I think the 5 years this has been taking place Hudson and Dover have been the only 2 teams to be in the playoffs each year.
SR Final Four
Portsmouth v. Concord
Londonderry v. Goffstown
I see that Salem was no hit twice - not something I would have expected. Most games have been very close with no 10 run mercy games.
JR Final Four
Nashua v. Hudson
Dover v. Concord
Games have been very competitive. Again no 10-run mercy games here. Dover looks the strongest, although I'd expect that with 7 members of the class of 2013 on their roster.
Portsmouth v. Concord
Londonderry v. Goffstown
I see that Salem was no hit twice - not something I would have expected. Most games have been very close with no 10 run mercy games.
JR Final Four
Nashua v. Hudson
Dover v. Concord
Games have been very competitive. Again no 10-run mercy games here. Dover looks the strongest, although I'd expect that with 7 members of the class of 2013 on their roster.
Concord wins twice vs. Goffstown yesterday to take the SR title. Their pitching depth seems to have carried the day.
Dover goes 5-0 in JR play beating Nashua for the crown. Lupi got the win. Pitching was certainly the key overall - very deep staff with I think 3 lefties.
Dover goes 5-0 in JR play beating Nashua for the crown. Lupi got the win. Pitching was certainly the key overall - very deep staff with I think 3 lefties.
