Legion Ball

Yeah... It's nice that "local" games are an hour away!

Travel is great... but nothing like being home on the weekends!

YoungGunDad - how are American Legion teams created in GA? I played American Legion ball in the northeast in the late 70s and each team was basically made up of kids from 2 or 3 high schools but there were specific boundaries per team. Are there American legion leagues in GA (metro Atlanta?). Thanks

Those boundaries of which you speak are still in place. However, I think it has more to do with the population in the local area high schools and which schools you can pull ball players from. I'm not sure I completely understand how it works but I think that is the jist of what I was told by our Manager this past summer.

There are still some AL teams here in the Atlanta area. I think we had about 8-10 teams mostly in the metro Atlanta area, and there were about 4-5 in the South Ga. area.

Can anyone tell me the competition level with legion teams in your area? Here it seems to be a little weak not sure though. Just curious.

Ours was very competetive until a some of the parents decided it wasn't. Bye Bye Legion, Hello travel ball.

Lefty -

My son played legion ball the summer that he was showcasing. In our area the team was made up of those kids that weren't playing some kind of tournament ball. The range of play was from that of a D+ quality high school team to not quite at the level of a poor JC team. Given that some of the kids were 19 and in their second year of JC, they could play, but then my son's team was 2nd in the state tournament.

It really was the last time my son played with kids from the area. For the most part he had a good time, got his AB's in and it fit into a summer when he attended the Stanford camp and a few showcase events. He played the summer he was 17 and did not come back for the next 2 years of elgibility.

Legion baseball in Spokane until a few years ago was the only game in town. One local travel team formed, and it was smooth sailing until they formed a second (younger) team. Legion banned play against them but to no avail. This team continued to play against top talent on the west side of the state, winning a Connie Mack state championship. Next year we'll have FIVE such travel teams. Is this the fault of travel teams or Legion ball trying to protect its turf?

Interesting observation on Legion Baseball

We have two kids who came to us in the fall down with arm situations. Both played Legion ball during the summer


Connection????

quote:

how are American Legion teams created

Generally speaking, a player has a domicile (residence of a parent)...he is "property" of the team with a home base (school) closest to that domicile. If he attends a private school some distance away, he may have two choices (his domicile team and his school team). Of course, there are exceptions and waivers to allow a player to be released to another team, which I think the preference moves to the next closest domicile school.

Each program can be made up from contiguous schools not to exceed enrollment of 5000 (I believe).

Wayback, Jr has played both travel teams and Legion, with each having benefits. The travel teams were a great experience for him and us, provided growth as a ball player, and ultimately led to his college choice.

Legion was the "fun" after his senior year in high school to play with local kids. Sometimes, the level of play was frustrating. But, once the playoffs began, and the riff raff was eliminated...it was pretty darn good. He also had a waiver to play in a local adult league (mostly local college kids), which began at 8 pm most nights, so that kept him sharp and ready for when he got to campus. He played more games that summer and we never stayed in a hotel.

quote:

Originally posted by iheartbb:
Ours was very competetive until a some of the parents decided it wasn't. Bye Bye Legion, Hello travel ball.

I'm in southeastern PA. I've watched a few Legion games. I haven't been impressed with the overal talent level. When I made a comment to the sportswriter covering the game he said it's not what it used to be. Recently Legion had a meeting about what to do about all the best players playing travel instead of Legion. When I was asked by a Legion official I told him, "Throw the dads out of coaching. Daddyball has to stop at the high school level."

The daddyball in our Jr and Sr Legion program is ridiculous. My son (fifteen) wasn't worried about starting in Jr Legion. He was all but promised shortstop if he would try out. But he wanted the best players on the field with him, not the coach's kids. How can a kid start every game while getting two hits all summer?

RJM, you are absolutely correct that dads (unless they are uniquely qualified) should not be coaching at the high school level. But even if one tried to implement that rule, these same dads assert influence with money, donations, super-volunteering, socializing, and other tactics.

If you can find a qualified coach that plays the most talented players first, you would have an ideal situation. But that's pretty hard to legislate, which is why I voted with my dollars and put Bum, Jr. on a travel team that doesn't play those games.

Fortunately, he's in college now, and the politics are finally in the rear view mirror.

Legion ball used to be the only game in town for summer play for HS kids, and so, the teams used to get all of the top players from the schools in their respective areas.

Over the past 15 years, I have witnessed a decline in the overall level of play in Legion ball, and that has corresponded to players finding that high level travel ball offers greater scouting opportunities than Legion does. And there's really nothing Legion can do about that. From the scouts' perspective, would you rather spend two intense weeks at East Cobb, or six weeks chasing down one game at a time all over the countryside? Bear in mind, they have lives, families, programs to run, and budgets to deal with as well. It's just no contest.

The problem is that when the very best players start to bleed out to travel teams, the talent pool left is sorely challenged to maintain high level play for 5 games/week. Most of them don't have enough pitching to cover it, and around here, Legion teams are notorious for over use of pitchers. TR's comment above is on point. There is indeed a connection between Legion play and players showing up to college in the fall with arm trouble. In fact we have had some very ugly injuries around here in Legion ball, and partly in fear of that, we steered clear of it completely.

There are of course individual Legion teams who do manage to get most if not all of their best players to come out. Some posts have reputations for offering a higher level experience, and of course playing locally is much less expensive than travel ball as well. South Richmond Post 137, which made it to the Legion World Series this past summer, is one of those programs to overcome the obstacles and put a studly team on the field. They weren't the only quality team in the area, but there were many games that were simply not competitive through the course of the season.

The move to increase the age limit for Legion play is clearly meant to combat this. For the recent HS grad who may already have his college decision done (if applicable), Legion is a decent way to play the game all summer once you aren't worried about whether you're being scouted. And now we see more and more guys who've gone to college and may not be high enough level to play in a summer collegiate league, but who still want to play ball all summer, perhaps while juggling it with a job. This new age limit is still a recent development, so the jury is out on it. My personal feeling is that it won't do enough to stop the slide, because college guys just don't get that much of a kick out of "playing down" with high schoolers.

I think this means Legion ball will continue and it will offer reasonable opportunities to many players, but the days when it was the top baseball available for high school age kids are gone forever.

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:
If you can find a qualified coach that plays the most talented players first, you would have an ideal situation. But that's pretty hard to legislate, which is why I voted with my dollars and put Bum, Jr. on a travel team that doesn't play those games.

It was simple when I played. The progression was LL, Babe Ruth and Legion. I have fond memories and would have liked it to be the same for my son. But by 13U the local ball is mediocre and loaded with daddyball. My son has played travel full time since 13U. There's daddyball in travel. But you can pick your poison or chose to avoid it.

I believe many of these dads who coach all the way through may be missing the boat on their son's development even when they are good players. I've coached my son through age fifteen and 16U. I was talking to a 16U showcase coach interested in my son for next summer. I told him I believe my son needs a kick in the rear to the next level that he won't take from me. Last summer, at fifteen I was more likely to get a glare than acknowledgement of my coaching. The coach laughed and assured me he'd be happy to kick him in the rear all the way to the next level. I've noticed the difference in the way he carries himself playing 18U fall ball for another coach. Sometimes it's best to let go and go sit with the parents.

That is exactly right.

Your teenage son will get to a point where he'll brush off a suggestion from you, but if another coach says it, he'll do it. You can be a brilliant coach generally and still not be the best man for the job of coaching your own son, once you get to that age!

There is also value to cutting the apron strings so that college programs scouting your son see him separate and apart from you -- someone who stands on his own two feet.

RJM and Midlo, I agree 100%. Believe it or not, Bum, Jr. has had over 40 coaches (from hack to pro) in his young life. He has learned from each one of them and hopes, someday, that he can teach the game himself.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:

I think this means Legion ball will continue and it will offer reasonable opportunities to many players, but the days when it was the top baseball available for high school age kids are gone forever.

I couldn't agree with you more Midlo Dad.

After my son's 10th and 11th grade years we played East Cobb ball for the competition and the hopes of being seen. When he signed early last fall with the college he attends now he opted to play for the local Legion team to play with local friends/players, and avoid the high cost of East Cobb! (but worth every penny).

It wasn't Daddy ball but it sure proved to me and my son the importance of having quality coaching. The team had what I thought was quality players (many were going on to the next level also) but it didn't take long to see the coaches had NO clue how to coach and manage the team. It was a farce and a joke most of the time to watch. Very painful.

The only good thing about it was he was able to throw about once a week to stay sharp and keep himself in shape for the pending fall ball workouts.

Waaaaay before travel ball even existed the local Legion team around here was stacked FULL of awesome talent and was fun to watch and follow.

Milo dad What new age limit are you talking about in Legion ball?

When I say "new" I mean in a relative sense. It's been in effect 2-3 years now.

Used to be they used the Aug. 1 aging date common to youth baseball, and 18 was the max age.

Now they use Jan. 1 and 19 is the max age.

Now much more common to see guys play Legion even after completing a year at college.

when i was a kid, a long time ago. it was unusual not to have college kids on your legion roster. it was very good baseball.( but the older i get the better we were).
these day's with all the college summer leagues,why would a college player play legion? he'll never face a high school player again.

in the big picture, i guess it's better for most player's development. doesn't do much for legion ball,younger kids do get a chance to play more.

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:
when i was a kid, a long time ago. it was unusual not to have college kids on your legion roster. it was very good baseball.( but the older i get the better we were).
these day's with all the college summer leagues,why would a college player play legion? he'll never face a high school player again.

in the big picture, i guess it's better for most player's development. doesn't do much for legion ball,younger kids do get a chance to play more.

Our local Legion team typically has three or three or four former high school players who are not playing college ball. The coach never selects sixteen year olds. The sixteen year olds started playing travel and not returning. Then the guy wonders what happened.

Two years ago a D1 player returned and owned the league. He was striking out two an inning. His dad walked around with his chest out. I kept thinking it would have been better for the kid's development to get thumped around a little in a college summer league. He returned to college and had a poor soph season.

I have heard Legion will be returning to eighteen year old age limit in a couple of years. It makes sense with all the college summer leagues available.

I think www.baseball.legion.org
might answer all your questions

In some parts of the US - Legion is the only game in town and in other regions - there is StanMusial -Roberto Clemente- Joe Dimaggio - Palomino and Connie Mack.

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:
Legion baseball in Spokane until a few years ago was the only game in town. One local travel team formed, and it was smooth sailing until they formed a second (younger) team. Legion banned play against them but to no avail. This team continued to play against top talent on the west side of the state, winning a Connie Mack state championship. Next year we'll have FIVE such travel teams. Is this the fault of travel teams or Legion ball trying to protect its turf?

Our son is doing just the opposet of YoungGuns, moving from Legion ball to play in East Cobb. Legion ball here is losing top players to high-end travel teams, but the simple fact of the matter is that if you lose the top 2 or 3 kids off of each team, what do you really have left? Only local college coaches go to Legion games, if any. If you have any interest at all in going to school outside of your local area, you need to get out there, and Legion ball is just not the way to do that. Recruiting budgets are limited, so coaches are not going to travel the country, hoping to find their next player at some Legion game. This is not a knock on Legion ball, but if a kid can start as a pitcher at 14, just how good is the level of play? Take that into account, along with the lack of exposure, and limited coaching, and no wonder that Legion is losing out a little more each year.

Legion ball probably makes the most sense for HS seniors who are already signed with a college team and don't need the exposure offered by travel ball and are not yet eligible to play for a collegiate summer league. Also, with the economy the way it is, it is harder to justify the significant additional cost of a travel team when exposure isn't the issue. Perhaps this will have the effect of driving more kids back into legion ball and improving the level of play. Still, the quality of the experience may be held hostage by poor coaching, but this likely varies from team to team. My son is in this situation and I/he haven't decided what to do this summer.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Interesting observation on Legion Baseball

We have two kids who came to us in the fall down with arm situations. Both played Legion ball during the summer


Connection????

That is interesting TR. Around here, things are looked at in the reverse scenario. Legion provides the stability in schedule to allow a pitcher to get into a real routine of pitching, throwing on the side, long-toss, running, etc..., whereas travel or showcase ball doesn't provide players with the requisite number of innings to build up arm strength and stamina, not to mention an infrequent pitching schedule.

These are words I have heard from local JuCo and College coaches here in MD.

LARRY


Coming onto a summer/fall season team a player had better be in shape both arm and stamina wise-- I cannot speak for other travel teams but our pitchers know when they scheduled to pitch and one good outing a week is certainly more than enough in terms of work especially since many of the arms are tired after the HS season where they were overworked

By the way what is the requisite number of pitches needed to build up arm strength?

Please define an infrequent pitching schedule?

One of the ways that kids get hurt playing showcase ball is their own fault. They dont work hard on days off, dont condition properly, and then go out and try to impress the radar guns. If you are only going to go once a week, which is totally fine, as TR pointed out, you HAVE to be working hard during your time off. In addition, that once a week cant be a 120 pitch outing.But in showcase ball, that is usually not the case anyway. Its like a runner. Marathoners dont just get up and run 26 miles. They train hard, and work up to it. Every pitcher is different in terms of how often they want to work. tho only constant is that if you dont train hard, you will surely be risking an injury. And Im with TR as far as the Legion and HS schedule goes. No one has enough pitching, so kids get used up pretty quick in an attempt to cover some coaches butt. And its usually a pretty good pitcher that ends up getting hurt, because the coach ALWAYS wants his best guy on the hill. Id rather have my so pitching too little instead of too much. He can always get work on the side if there is not enough during games.

Highcheese, younggunson played East Cobb ball for 2 summers and when he signed early last fall he opted to play for the local Legion team since the pressure to sign was now off like VS said.

Plus, it saved us over $1000! Money well used on this years tuition!

That is a solid idea, as far as Legion AFTER your deal is in place. Like you said, less stress on the player and the wallet! Enjoy that last summer around town with friends, because as us old fogies know, that is time that the kids will never have again. Lets face it, they are going to have to put their nose to the grindstone when they show up at school, so like I said, enjoy that last bit of time when responsibility is at a minimum. BUT if you do not have a deal or somewhere to play yet, Legion is not the place to be seen.

My son played senior legion as a junior in HS and his senior summer. He had gone to some camps and showcases during. He is invited back after his first year of JC ball but will not be going backand he has been invited to play in a collegiate league. But i will say this it was two of the most fun summers we have ever had in baseball. Just had a great time.Fun playing with the kids coming back from college, traveling. all the familieswe would go to the aways and go out and eat, gamble a little up in reno. great times, and great memories for our family. And there was some good baseball this past summer. Lots of JC pitchers, guys who already had D1 scholarships. It is so less expensive. But all said two years is enough, my son hit 12 HRs last year and tore it up, it was fun but he eeds to step up and play college players now.

Who are the top American Legion teams in your state.?And do they have webb sites.?

My son always opted for legion over travel in hs, because his spring teammates were his friends and he liked playing with them in the summer. During Spring I asked him if he had any ideas about what he was going to do for the summer. As has been discussed in other threads, his brain was not as attuned to his baseball future as I would have liked. The legion coach asked if he would consider playing afte graduation, to help some of the young kids and to keep sharp for the Fall. At first he was taken aback, as if Legion would be beneath him. He then asked coach (well respected DIII) if he had any suggestions for summer ball. Coach answered, "Can you play on a Legion team?"
The summer did not pose the greatest of challenges, but he pitched against several players who are attending DI's now and several who have committed to DI's for next year. He was able to stay sharp, in shape and he had a great time at the plate. He is afraid that his days as a hitter may be numbered, so he really enjoyed hitting one more time.