I am an '05 and I am wondering which is better, legion ball or a traveling team? Which is better for exposure, development, competition, and playing time? Thanks for the help.
NHbaseball
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ryoutsI believe a top traveling team is going to generally be better than Legion. However, it really depends on the travel team's schedule and contacts.
There are times the Legion team might be playing a better schedule.
feel free to email me at RobPincus@aol.com if you want me to give you info on the traveling team you are considering. There are several great programs in the Northeast led by the Bayside Yankees.
Bob Pincus
Head Coach
Central Florida Renegades
www.eteamz.com/centralfloridarenegades
RobPincus@aol.com
There are times the Legion team might be playing a better schedule.
feel free to email me at RobPincus@aol.com if you want me to give you info on the traveling team you are considering. There are several great programs in the Northeast led by the Bayside Yankees.
Bob Pincus
Head Coach
Central Florida Renegades
www.eteamz.com/centralfloridarenegades
RobPincus@aol.com
Legion ball is at best advanced highschool junior varsity competition. Most of the advanced players are playing select baseball. There are a few exceptions but the trend now is towards select teams like Mr. Pincus's Central Florida Renegades, Florida Pokers, Florida Bombers, Orlando Scorpions, and Team Florida USA just to name a few in Florida. In the Northeast you have the Bayside Yankees, Team Connecticut, South Carolina Diamond Devils, etc. We all work hard to promote our players through competitive events both regionally and nationally. Legion ball is local competition and serves its purpose for participation, but not to get the exposure you desire.
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
How do you handle it when the high school coach has a few scheduled dates for games in the summer and it will conflict with travel ball?
You know Hiflier....that is a good question. I have the answer but until High School Coaches realize they are part of the process instead of thinking they are the process, things wont change.
Let me explain....Most High School Coaches actually believe that their program is the only venue players have or will have to get the visibility and exposure to both college and professional scouts. They in turn put their program above everything and say its us or nothting.
I was talking to a parent the other night and she asked an obvious question. Why would a high school coach demand his better players play a mediorcre at best schedule on a local basis rather than let the better players seek better competitive summer teams if they choose to?
My answer at first was to laugh as her question is the same question I have had for high school coaches. How can they remain blind and selfish and not allow their players opportunities they seek? To me its a matter of choice on the players part and not a choice for the high school coach at all. His job is to develop the players that choose to participate in what ever program he provides.
Those high school coaches will talk about loyalty and stuff of that nature. What about his loyalty to you as parents and players? What about putting you guys first and foremost? What about saying my players come first and getting them better, giving them opportunities comes first?
There are some that will and some that wont. Theose coaches that do have total programs because now they let their older players play in programs that will challenge them and the younger players get one on one instruction from the high school coach. Dang...now he has to TEACH.......
Now to your question:
I say there is no conflict. Do not make decisions on your son's summer program based on what the high school coach thinks. Seek out better competition, seek out other opportunities if that is your choice. If you choose to try and co-exist between two teams...good luck!
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
Let me explain....Most High School Coaches actually believe that their program is the only venue players have or will have to get the visibility and exposure to both college and professional scouts. They in turn put their program above everything and say its us or nothting.
I was talking to a parent the other night and she asked an obvious question. Why would a high school coach demand his better players play a mediorcre at best schedule on a local basis rather than let the better players seek better competitive summer teams if they choose to?
My answer at first was to laugh as her question is the same question I have had for high school coaches. How can they remain blind and selfish and not allow their players opportunities they seek? To me its a matter of choice on the players part and not a choice for the high school coach at all. His job is to develop the players that choose to participate in what ever program he provides.
Those high school coaches will talk about loyalty and stuff of that nature. What about his loyalty to you as parents and players? What about putting you guys first and foremost? What about saying my players come first and getting them better, giving them opportunities comes first?
There are some that will and some that wont. Theose coaches that do have total programs because now they let their older players play in programs that will challenge them and the younger players get one on one instruction from the high school coach. Dang...now he has to TEACH.......
Now to your question:
quote:
How do you handle it when the high school coach has a few scheduled dates for games in the summer and it will conflict with travel ball?
I say there is no conflict. Do not make decisions on your son's summer program based on what the high school coach thinks. Seek out better competition, seek out other opportunities if that is your choice. If you choose to try and co-exist between two teams...good luck!
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
Steve,
Very good posts.
I have had several parents tell me that if their son does not play summer ball at the high school they will get cut. We recruited two players out of Lakeland, FL who are not allowed to play here because they will miss summer high school tournaments. In the meantime, these two kids -a catcher and infielder - will end up not getting any exposure the summer before their senior year, which means they will struggle to find a college team much less a scholarship.
If a coach is so concerned about his high school team "staying together" during the summer to win a state championship in the spring, does anyone really think he would bench his better players who did not play in the summer? No way! Coaches who force their players to play lowly summer high school ball and not top level traveling teams care about one thing - winning. Getting a player into college is not on their minds at all.
We had one coach threaten a kid that he would not play his senior year if he missed high school summer ball. That young man signed a major Division I scholarship by being seen through the Central Florida Renegades. The college coach had never even spoken to the high school coach (which is the norm, not the exception). On the day the kid signed, the high school coach told the media how "he" got this great player a scholarship. I'm not looking for credit -I'm just happy for the young man - but it is ironic that the coach takes credit for something he did not want to allow to happen.
Sorry for the long post, but this has struck a nerve recently and I wanted to voice my opinion. I will say there are some good high school coaches out there who do want their kids to play travel ball if possible, but not enough. Parents look out for your sons development and exposure, as a high school coach that is forcing him to play down is not looking out for him.
Bob Pincus
Head Coach
Central Florida Renegades
www.eteamz.com/centralfloridarenegades
RobPincus@aol.com
Very good posts.
I have had several parents tell me that if their son does not play summer ball at the high school they will get cut. We recruited two players out of Lakeland, FL who are not allowed to play here because they will miss summer high school tournaments. In the meantime, these two kids -a catcher and infielder - will end up not getting any exposure the summer before their senior year, which means they will struggle to find a college team much less a scholarship.
If a coach is so concerned about his high school team "staying together" during the summer to win a state championship in the spring, does anyone really think he would bench his better players who did not play in the summer? No way! Coaches who force their players to play lowly summer high school ball and not top level traveling teams care about one thing - winning. Getting a player into college is not on their minds at all.
We had one coach threaten a kid that he would not play his senior year if he missed high school summer ball. That young man signed a major Division I scholarship by being seen through the Central Florida Renegades. The college coach had never even spoken to the high school coach (which is the norm, not the exception). On the day the kid signed, the high school coach told the media how "he" got this great player a scholarship. I'm not looking for credit -I'm just happy for the young man - but it is ironic that the coach takes credit for something he did not want to allow to happen.
Sorry for the long post, but this has struck a nerve recently and I wanted to voice my opinion. I will say there are some good high school coaches out there who do want their kids to play travel ball if possible, but not enough. Parents look out for your sons development and exposure, as a high school coach that is forcing him to play down is not looking out for him.
Bob Pincus
Head Coach
Central Florida Renegades
www.eteamz.com/centralfloridarenegades
RobPincus@aol.com
There is some very good Legion ball in New England. There are scouts watching alot of games. It is also affordable if that is an issue. If you live in a good team's area, one that should make it the state tourny,there will be coaches and scouts watching.
quote:
How do you handle it when the high school coach has a few scheduled dates for games in the summer and it will conflict with travel ball?
Hiflier
You are getting very good advice form these coaches. The school is not there for coaches, baseball programs, teachers. It is there for the students and their preparation for life AFTER high school.
If playing up and out is an issue, then let your Mom or Dad handle it and be the bad guy.
Sometimes school baseball coaches don't get everything they want, like everyone else, and then they get over it.
We have a legion team which is always very competitive and very much has great coaching... it's down the highway a bit from here...but there's just the one team...so roster slots are slim at best...
so opportunity to be seen/getplaying time/get exposure/get better/compete/have fun/
were all factored into our leaving the area...for travel/select teams...
so opportunity to be seen/getplaying time/get exposure/get better/compete/have fun/
were all factored into our leaving the area...for travel/select teams...
One more comment on this topic....
I did not nor do I feel that travel/selct teams are a good fit for everyone. Obviously costs and playing time are concerns. However, if you do have an opportunity to play for a select/travel team, then you should make every effort to do so. The cost is an investment in the prospects future....
Regardless of what people think...Legion Ball, Babe Ruth, Dixie Youth, etc., does not even remotely come close to the exposure to the scouts than does Select/Travel Baseball. If you (a prospect) think that 5 plus scouts watching a game is a lot, then think again. Try 30-50 at a smaller event and 100 plus at the larger events. Not to mention that the better baseball schools carefully schedule their summer schedules to follow the largest group of talent.
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Mr. Pincus,
I would like to correct if I may your statement above. I would like to replace the word winning with "them selves"
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In these threads the appearance that we are bashing High School Coaches exists. Lets remember the saying "if the shoe fits wear it".
I say this because there are a lot of high school coaches all over the country that I know and respect. Some are still caught in some old school ways and thought regarding this topic.
One of my closest friends is a high school coach in Florida and he used to be from the old school of stay and play or get cut. I let him know for years I thought he was being selfish and self-serving by his actions. I then invited him to coach with us and showed him what we brought to the table regarding exposure and competition. When it was all said and done he conseeded that he could not come close to providing his players what they were getting playing for us. He then told his players if they wanted to play for a travel team they could with his aproval and he kept his younger players for the summer. He was then allowed to teach his younger players and they got more reps with the older kids playing travel ball...everyone got better and within 3 years he won a state title. His entire program got better.
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
I did not nor do I feel that travel/selct teams are a good fit for everyone. Obviously costs and playing time are concerns. However, if you do have an opportunity to play for a select/travel team, then you should make every effort to do so. The cost is an investment in the prospects future....
Regardless of what people think...Legion Ball, Babe Ruth, Dixie Youth, etc., does not even remotely come close to the exposure to the scouts than does Select/Travel Baseball. If you (a prospect) think that 5 plus scouts watching a game is a lot, then think again. Try 30-50 at a smaller event and 100 plus at the larger events. Not to mention that the better baseball schools carefully schedule their summer schedules to follow the largest group of talent.
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Mr. Pincus,
quote:
Coaches who force their players to play lowly summer high school ball and not top level traveling teams care about one thing - winning. Getting a player into college is not on their minds at all.
I would like to correct if I may your statement above. I would like to replace the word winning with "them selves"
---------------------------------
In these threads the appearance that we are bashing High School Coaches exists. Lets remember the saying "if the shoe fits wear it".
I say this because there are a lot of high school coaches all over the country that I know and respect. Some are still caught in some old school ways and thought regarding this topic.
One of my closest friends is a high school coach in Florida and he used to be from the old school of stay and play or get cut. I let him know for years I thought he was being selfish and self-serving by his actions. I then invited him to coach with us and showed him what we brought to the table regarding exposure and competition. When it was all said and done he conseeded that he could not come close to providing his players what they were getting playing for us. He then told his players if they wanted to play for a travel team they could with his aproval and he kept his younger players for the summer. He was then allowed to teach his younger players and they got more reps with the older kids playing travel ball...everyone got better and within 3 years he won a state title. His entire program got better.
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
My experience has been that an established coaching staff on a Legion program generally provides the best overall quality of experience for players. Many exceptions exist, Bayside Yankees, Central Florida Renegades, Dulins Dodgers, etc... But overall, you take an established coaching staff on a good Legion team, and you will find real coaches. Coaches capable of making players better. Legion restrictions don't permit the coaches to recruit all over the state, like for instance, my program allows. We always schedule the top Legion teams in the state each summer, because we know we will see great competition in an exciting environment! I feel that any of the Legion teams, Severna Park A.L., Mt. Airy A.L., Greenbelt A.L., could step into our league and compete. And the league we play in features teams like the Virginia Barnstormers, Bayside Yankees, and South Troy (NY). Best of Luck!
TFusa20 and Coach Pincus...I understand your frustration with some of the local, yocal high school coaches that give players ultimatums. I do take exception that if a player doesn't play with a "high profile" team, they won't get the exposure to college coaches they need. My experience in the mid-Atlantic has been that if players recruit the college coaches to come out and see them, the coaches will. True, if I'm a college coach and don't have anywhere to go tonight, I'm going to check out the Renegades. But, since I've already seen them 3 - 5 times, this summer, maybe I'll go see John Smith, the kid who sent me his schedule and asked me to come watch him. Players, even more so than coaches, have the responsibility of communicating with college coaches and expressing an interest in being recruited by that coach.
Mr. Thompson....the only way a coach would follow up a players request to see him play would be if it fit his already busy schedule, and after he first checked the player out through other resources.
I must disagree with you on this one as I talk to coaches daily and although there are a few exceptions, most college recruiters have a plan of attack to see the greatest number of prospects through out the summer and limited fall.
Your area of the country might have competitve group of Legion Teams, but to really find out how competitive they are, then have them play in events where there are 100's of scouts and they are playing against the best players in the country not in one area. Sorry Legion ball does not do that any more.
Your talking here to a former Legion Coach of 15 years. In those days Legion was the deal. Now it is not. I challenge you to have this great group of coaches you have assembled that teach the game like it should be taught to challenge their players and play a more competitive form of baseball. Not only will your players get better, they will be exposed to more scouts than you can possibly imagine and improve your players visibility to these scouts.
You see, In my home town the players here say that we have pretty competitive baseball in our area. Thats because they are all on the same level and all of their games against each other are close games. And yet when you ask these coaches to play in our tournaments or to attend a national calibur tournament, their answer is....why play that event when you will get beat.
You dont have to be a "high profile" team to compete. We have not always been "high profile". We earned that through the years by playing events that had teams that would spank our butts if we did not play our very best.
Our philosophy and goals are to allow our players to showcase their talents in a TEAM setting. To provide the highest competitive tournament level possible while at the same time, have our players gain the maximum exposure to college and professional scouts.
We strive to educate these players and teach them the integrity of the game while learning life's lessons associated with playing baseball. Also, we strive to create an atmosphere that will lead to friendships during our brief time together that will last a life time.
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
I must disagree with you on this one as I talk to coaches daily and although there are a few exceptions, most college recruiters have a plan of attack to see the greatest number of prospects through out the summer and limited fall.
Your area of the country might have competitve group of Legion Teams, but to really find out how competitive they are, then have them play in events where there are 100's of scouts and they are playing against the best players in the country not in one area. Sorry Legion ball does not do that any more.
Your talking here to a former Legion Coach of 15 years. In those days Legion was the deal. Now it is not. I challenge you to have this great group of coaches you have assembled that teach the game like it should be taught to challenge their players and play a more competitive form of baseball. Not only will your players get better, they will be exposed to more scouts than you can possibly imagine and improve your players visibility to these scouts.
You see, In my home town the players here say that we have pretty competitive baseball in our area. Thats because they are all on the same level and all of their games against each other are close games. And yet when you ask these coaches to play in our tournaments or to attend a national calibur tournament, their answer is....why play that event when you will get beat.
You dont have to be a "high profile" team to compete. We have not always been "high profile". We earned that through the years by playing events that had teams that would spank our butts if we did not play our very best.
Our philosophy and goals are to allow our players to showcase their talents in a TEAM setting. To provide the highest competitive tournament level possible while at the same time, have our players gain the maximum exposure to college and professional scouts.
We strive to educate these players and teach them the integrity of the game while learning life's lessons associated with playing baseball. Also, we strive to create an atmosphere that will lead to friendships during our brief time together that will last a life time.
----------------------------
"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
There is no comparison between a Legion vs a Travel/Select team...and until you have been on both sides you can not fathom the difference(at least from this part of the country)...my son played his one and only year of Legion last year and if he was not already settled in his college
plans Legion would never had been an avenue for exposure...there was one practice the entire season and yet the coach expected the team to make a run for the play-offs(which we did jor the first round and were knocked out)...how can you have such expectations when you draw kids from 8 different schools and think they can be competetive without practicing...only 2 games had a scout in attendance(and one of them a D3 school offered my son an opportunity to play for them if things do not go his way presently...the other scout was there to watch a specific boy)..I actually had a go around with a coach from an adjacent town who wanted to know where my son had played for the previous years and when I said AAU he proceeded to rip that apart and when I pointed out the exposure his comeback was "if I have a boy interested in college I call that coach and get him seen"...yes, BUT, what if he shows poorly there goes that school but with AAU you are seen by hundreds of scouts at various times and places....Legion was a good filler for the summer prior to college but as far as exposure goes play on a travel/select team
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
plans Legion would never had been an avenue for exposure...there was one practice the entire season and yet the coach expected the team to make a run for the play-offs(which we did jor the first round and were knocked out)...how can you have such expectations when you draw kids from 8 different schools and think they can be competetive without practicing...only 2 games had a scout in attendance(and one of them a D3 school offered my son an opportunity to play for them if things do not go his way presently...the other scout was there to watch a specific boy)..I actually had a go around with a coach from an adjacent town who wanted to know where my son had played for the previous years and when I said AAU he proceeded to rip that apart and when I pointed out the exposure his comeback was "if I have a boy interested in college I call that coach and get him seen"...yes, BUT, what if he shows poorly there goes that school but with AAU you are seen by hundreds of scouts at various times and places....Legion was a good filler for the summer prior to college but as far as exposure goes play on a travel/select team
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
This is awesome. I love learning stuff and getting views from all over the country. I'm going to name drop a little, sorry about that. But it helps make my point...and understand my view is from my limited experience in the mid-atlantic area. I have managed the Columbia Reds, I guess you would call us a select team, out of Maryland, and have done so for 15 years.
I have been an associate scout for 11 years with the Houston Astros in the mid-atlantic area. My teams have competed in the NABF National Finals 3 of the past 6 years, Dizzy Dean World Series in 2000, and the AAU Championships in Walt Disney World and Panama City Beach over the past 7 years.
So much for the history lesson. My point was that a top notch Legion program, with an established coaching staff, won't expose their players to one practice and a 20 game schedule. Jim McCandless manages the Severna Park A.L. in Severna Park, MD, and has done so for the past 14 years. His team plays about 60 games per year, participates in 2 to 4 "large" tournaments, and always participates in post-season playoffs. In the past 6 years, Jim has produced players of the caliber Mark Texiera (Texas Rangers 1B, 3B, DH), Gavin Floyd (2001 4th overall pick to the Phillies), Josh Banks (2002 sandwich pick for the Blue Jays), etc... I guess what I am hearing is that his program is the exception to the Legion rule? But then I see George Richardson, Mt. Airy A.L. in Mt. Airy, MD. The starting SS at Univ. of Richmond played for him 2 summers ago, and 3 years ago his catcher got a 3/4 ride to Oklahoma State. Again, we are talking about a program that plays 60 games, participates in several tournaments, and is well coached.
Pardon my rambling, recovering from the flu. I guess my views are rather narrow in scope, and I wish everyone could have programs like this in their towns.
I still know, after 11 years of scouting, that many kids go play for these "select teams", like mine, and don't always get the playing time they need to prep for college. I think 160 ABs during the summer is better than 60 ABs for some powerhouse squad. How can anyone argue with that?
I have been an associate scout for 11 years with the Houston Astros in the mid-atlantic area. My teams have competed in the NABF National Finals 3 of the past 6 years, Dizzy Dean World Series in 2000, and the AAU Championships in Walt Disney World and Panama City Beach over the past 7 years.
So much for the history lesson. My point was that a top notch Legion program, with an established coaching staff, won't expose their players to one practice and a 20 game schedule. Jim McCandless manages the Severna Park A.L. in Severna Park, MD, and has done so for the past 14 years. His team plays about 60 games per year, participates in 2 to 4 "large" tournaments, and always participates in post-season playoffs. In the past 6 years, Jim has produced players of the caliber Mark Texiera (Texas Rangers 1B, 3B, DH), Gavin Floyd (2001 4th overall pick to the Phillies), Josh Banks (2002 sandwich pick for the Blue Jays), etc... I guess what I am hearing is that his program is the exception to the Legion rule? But then I see George Richardson, Mt. Airy A.L. in Mt. Airy, MD. The starting SS at Univ. of Richmond played for him 2 summers ago, and 3 years ago his catcher got a 3/4 ride to Oklahoma State. Again, we are talking about a program that plays 60 games, participates in several tournaments, and is well coached.
Pardon my rambling, recovering from the flu. I guess my views are rather narrow in scope, and I wish everyone could have programs like this in their towns.
I still know, after 11 years of scouting, that many kids go play for these "select teams", like mine, and don't always get the playing time they need to prep for college. I think 160 ABs during the summer is better than 60 ABs for some powerhouse squad. How can anyone argue with that?
Larry....I know coach Jim McCandless from when he used to play in our annual Southeastern Fourth of July Tournamentin Panama City. Our Team was Post 66 coached By Dave Goodwin, Bob Thayer and then myself. Your right his program is the exception to the rule. He does have a very nice club and plays in many non-legion tournaments. I wonder if he knows of the competition level of the PG Events and some of our events now?
Larry, your views are not narrow. They seem to be based on what you have been exposed to in your area. But believe me, there is an incredible amount of competitive baseball out there that you guys can be a part of and have not tapped into yet.
AAU, Dizzy Dean, Babe Ruth, Legion. I have tried them all and the end result was the birth of Team Florida USA. Our Legion Team had so many restrictions we could not use players from one small city (Panama City). Neighbors could not play as team mates....Legion's answer was to have two clubs. Two average non-competitive teams instead of one competitve.
I do encourage your team to come and play in either both or one of our tournaments we host. Heck pass the information on to coach McCandless as he is welcomed to come and play.
Here is the link to our tournaments TFUSA Hosts:
http://www.teamfloridausa.com/Tournaments/tournhome.html
There are some other BEST affiliated events during the summer that I can help you with if your interested and our dates are not good. Dont hesitate to contact me:
Coach@TeamFloridaUSA.com
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Also...as you might know I sit on the BOD of BEST Baseball. We are hosting our annual World Championships July 23-31. That event will be especially competitive for both our 16U and 18U divisions. We are hosting both age group events simultaneously. We are working hard to make this tournament not only competitive but very special. There is no qualifying events to get in. Just some good ole fashion baseball.
What seperates this tournament we think from the others is we are organizing the event ourslelves. Of course Perfect Game runs what we think is the best event going and we are using their examples in certain areas to help us with ours. But just think, seven elite teams compiling their recources to host an event. You know what I mean when you go to an event and you are made to feel special while you are there. That is our goal.
Here is the link to that tournament informaton:
http://www.best-baseball.org/tournament.html
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
Larry, your views are not narrow. They seem to be based on what you have been exposed to in your area. But believe me, there is an incredible amount of competitive baseball out there that you guys can be a part of and have not tapped into yet.
AAU, Dizzy Dean, Babe Ruth, Legion. I have tried them all and the end result was the birth of Team Florida USA. Our Legion Team had so many restrictions we could not use players from one small city (Panama City). Neighbors could not play as team mates....Legion's answer was to have two clubs. Two average non-competitive teams instead of one competitve.
I do encourage your team to come and play in either both or one of our tournaments we host. Heck pass the information on to coach McCandless as he is welcomed to come and play.
Here is the link to our tournaments TFUSA Hosts:
http://www.teamfloridausa.com/Tournaments/tournhome.html
There are some other BEST affiliated events during the summer that I can help you with if your interested and our dates are not good. Dont hesitate to contact me:
Coach@TeamFloridaUSA.com
---------------------------------------------------------
Also...as you might know I sit on the BOD of BEST Baseball. We are hosting our annual World Championships July 23-31. That event will be especially competitive for both our 16U and 18U divisions. We are hosting both age group events simultaneously. We are working hard to make this tournament not only competitive but very special. There is no qualifying events to get in. Just some good ole fashion baseball.
What seperates this tournament we think from the others is we are organizing the event ourslelves. Of course Perfect Game runs what we think is the best event going and we are using their examples in certain areas to help us with ours. But just think, seven elite teams compiling their recources to host an event. You know what I mean when you go to an event and you are made to feel special while you are there. That is our goal.
Here is the link to that tournament informaton:
http://www.best-baseball.org/tournament.html
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
i play for FSK post 11 junior american legion, its great we dont have to pay anything, unlike the over priced select teams that generall play against their own age groups. i will be playing as a 16 year old this year, and i feel that the only way to improve yourself is to play against older and better opponents. you just dont get that in the "metro leagues".
Pudge7...you are fortunate in that you play in a very competitive American Legion league. For that matter, I feel that American Legion as a whole in the state of MD, is one of the stronger options for a 17-18 yr. old player. While I agree that playing against older competition is sometimes good, it is more important to learn how to lead a team, be the man, and come through when your team needs you. If you are always playing "up" in age group, you will probably never have the experience of having to be the player on the team that everyone looks to in clutch situations. Being able to handle that kind of pressure will benefit you immensely as you enter college. Again, you are in a great league and play many home games on one of the finest diamonds in the area. Good Luck!
He could become the 16 yearold that the 18's look up to because he plays up and can compete...every situation is different but IMO staying back when an option to move up is available is not the choice.
I just believe competition and learning to adapt to a much more competitive environment by participating in that environment, will make players better. Having the security of being the "big dog" in your age group is IMO not a true picture of what is to be expected at the next level.
To me that is avoiding the possiblity of failures....you see you can lead by example and a players age is not the requirement for who is the leader and who is not.
My opinion of course!
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
I just believe competition and learning to adapt to a much more competitive environment by participating in that environment, will make players better. Having the security of being the "big dog" in your age group is IMO not a true picture of what is to be expected at the next level.
To me that is avoiding the possiblity of failures....you see you can lead by example and a players age is not the requirement for who is the leader and who is not.
My opinion of course!
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
Test
TF...good opinion. Well written. I'm still looking for the 18 year old that is willing to admit he is looking up to a 16 year old though.
Larry...I was just saying that I have seen in my experiences where 16 year olds that have talent to play up and choose to play at their own age group just to build the trophy case...and when it comes time to compete for a job, he does not know how to handle that situation.
I know I have trained younger players to have that attitude....that is to demonstrate to the older players that you understand the game better than they do...challenge them to work as hard as you do and if they follow your lead and dont want to have the youngster out play them, then just by the nature of your actions you are leading them.
Again...that is just my opinion!
----------------------------
"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
I know I have trained younger players to have that attitude....that is to demonstrate to the older players that you understand the game better than they do...challenge them to work as hard as you do and if they follow your lead and dont want to have the youngster out play them, then just by the nature of your actions you are leading them.
Again...that is just my opinion!
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"The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards!" - PAUL BEAR BRYANT
Coaches are starting to realize the values of travel baseball. In New Jersey there are leagues that offer better competition then American Legion.
John GSBL - johngsbl@aol.com
Referral Code: #JPN013
732-382-4610 - 2-8pm Everyday except Friday
www.gardenstatebaseball.com - www.gardenstateyankees.com
John GSBL - johngsbl@aol.com
Referral Code: #JPN013
732-382-4610 - 2-8pm Everyday except Friday
www.gardenstatebaseball.com - www.gardenstateyankees.com
Tfusa20...you are correct. You must agree though that in many instances it takes a special kid to play up and understand how to lead by example. Matt Deuchler, C, 4-yr. starter at JMU, entering his second year in the White Sox org, was the first 16 yr. old we ever had play 17-18. Out of necessity, we brought him up. He was head and shoulders the best catcher in the area, and possessed a 50 arm as a junior in high school. Even with his work ethic and obvious talent, he had difficult times ever now and then because he wanted to speak up to the older kids, but didn't feel right doing so. We, as a staff, learned what you mentioned. We had a responsibility to show him how to handle the situation. It was a great learning experience for the coaching staff. Too bad we haven't had too many Deuchler's pop up in the past 6 years. Talk to you later!
I coach a very competetive Legion team in Providence, RI. We had many kids last year who are playing college baseball. We are only in our 3rd year of existence. Most of our kids are innercity kids who could never afford travel baseball. I will also say that I'd be pretty comfortable putting our squad on the same field as South Troy or the CT Bombers.
However, if I have a kid who can afford it and is talented enough for it, I will encourage him to play away from us. We have relationships with some good local college programs like URI, Wheaton, Tufts, and Bryant. We have sent kids to these schools and their coaches trust us. However, if I have a kid who is truly talented enough to play major college baseball or beyond, I understand that the kid needs more exposure and better guidance than what I can provide. Travel baseball provides more of that than what my program can provide.
I don't take it as an insult.
However, if I have a kid who can afford it and is talented enough for it, I will encourage him to play away from us. We have relationships with some good local college programs like URI, Wheaton, Tufts, and Bryant. We have sent kids to these schools and their coaches trust us. However, if I have a kid who is truly talented enough to play major college baseball or beyond, I understand that the kid needs more exposure and better guidance than what I can provide. Travel baseball provides more of that than what my program can provide.
I don't take it as an insult.
larrythmpson
I would like to get a copy of your 60 game legion schedule. Our legion team in the northeast is lucky to play 25 games.
I would like to get a copy of your 60 game legion schedule. Our legion team in the northeast is lucky to play 25 games.
massfan
very well put--what you are stating is pure fact--there is place for legion and travel--neither is for everyone
very well put--what you are stating is pure fact--there is place for legion and travel--neither is for everyone
Tfusa20,
How would you feel about a player leaving his high school team in the middle of the state playoffs to join his select travel ball team at a showcase tournament.
How would you feel about a player leaving his high school team in the middle of the state playoffs to join his select travel ball team at a showcase tournament.
bbforlife--
In most states the HS player cannot play outside of school while his season is in progress
In most states the HS player cannot play outside of school while his season is in progress
I believe the rule in most states is that if the player plays for another team he is not eligible for the rest of the current HS season. Which is actually part of my point. Player leaves in the middle of playoffs for a select showcase he is now ineligible for the rest of the HS playoffs if his team advances. The only question is should his HS coach allow him to play the next year.
I would think that the players on his HS team whom he let down might have a word or two about it as well!!!
I wonder if this is perhaps a regional thing because in Northern California there are some excellent Legion Team options, including the team my son plays for, the Danville Hoots. We also have a travelling/showcase team(NorCal)that pulls some of the best players in the area, but the Legion team is no slouch. Both options are well managed by seasoned coaches who know how to get the best out of their players, and both teams have an excellent track records for getting their players to the next level. BTW, my son's team will play about 60 games between now and the end of summer. Guess I'd better load up on the sunscreen!
Any information on select travel teams in the midwest would be appreciated. Contacts, etc...
for me this summer legion ball was the way to go, because after the south troy dodgers theres nothing competetive to play in NY. one thing that helps make legion more competetive is the college players that play, i think the age goes to 19? im not positive, but there are a fair amount of d2 or d3 college guys that come play. theyre not top notch otherwise theyd be in a summer league, but theyre definately good ballplayers (noting within 4 hours of where i love) this legion coach said you let me know what colleges your interested in and il make sure they know about you and il do my absolute best to get them to some games to watch you play. he also said our games dont come first, if you have a showcase to go to, go there, play well, give them a game schedule and that'll help you as well. im a catcher and im looking to train this summer so our schedules perfect for me as well, we play 38 games in 50 days, a lot of them are double headers, so il have plenty of time to get training in.
now my HS coach mentioned loyalty to him and playing with him next season, but ideally id like to play with the dodgers this fall and next summer if possible because im almost positive that would be the best option for me
so thats my only dilema with this team. but from what the coach says i should haev everything i need with this legion team.
now my HS coach mentioned loyalty to him and playing with him next season, but ideally id like to play with the dodgers this fall and next summer if possible because im almost positive that would be the best option for me
so thats my only dilema with this team. but from what the coach says i should haev everything i need with this legion team.
while i realize this is an old post it brings the region thing to mind.in new england most of the better prgrams are in ma. cn.with some exceptions.if you are ready to pay to play,travel etc.and don't mind a couple hour ride than this is your best exposure.IF your a good enough player?we have some travel ball aau programs that seem to be money makers for some.and in my opinion alot of these teams start at an age that kids talent can be all over the place.a good 12 year old doesn't always make a good 17 year old player.legion ball in nh can run anywhere from rec. ball to very good ball.but it's free and with the new teams that pop up you'll play at least 20 games from june to mid july.it's all what you make of it.we do have some very talented kids in nh and me but they don't always get the exposure they deserve.maybe we need some new top level travel teams up north?
Some really good points have been made on this thread!
As a High School coach and parent, I share the following;
Players need to get work during the summer! Quality work! If that means paying to play on a travel team, then so be it. It is sad to say, there are HS coaches that send out the rule "my team or no team" and that is not fair to the player and program. I have had players play on travel teams, show up once in a while for a summer HS game and no questions asked. I am glad they are playing quality baseball. Sure, I would like them to play with our summer squad to keep the core playing together, but I am in agreement, its all about exposure and the players get more exposure at the travel showcases and tournaments.
If your local legion program has quality coaching, a quality schedule and venues to get exposure, that should be highly considered when making the final decision. In short, decision should be pondered by the player and his parents without pressure from the HS coach. Let's face it, a player is not under any obligation to commit to his HS team during the summer. However, most HS programs offer the opportunity and that is what it is, an opprtunity to take or leave.
Long story short, players need to do what is best for them, like finding the right fit with respect to college programs.
As for the "in season" issue, if a player has made a commitment to play HS ball, his commitment is to finish what he started. The HS season ends soon enough and travel baseball picks up where the HS season ends. I know this is going to get some negative feedback, but it is my opinion for whatever its worth. Why would a parent want his son to play 5 or 6 days a week with his HS team, then go play a double header on Sunday? Is there any rest or recovery period, no. Let's not forget the term, "Student Athlete" and schoolwork. 7 days a week for baseball is a little extreme for me as a parent much less a coach. When I took over my current program, I ran into a lot of flack with some dad coaches (JV players) that felt that their kids can and SHOULD do both. Let's look at this for a second, "Johnny" pitches on Sunday for his Dad's team, shows up Monday and Tuesday with a sore or tired arm. "Johnny" is a pitcher and position player and coach has plans to play and/or pitch "Johnny." Is this fair to the HS team? In my opinion, No, a commitment was made to play HS ball and the coaching staff and his fellow players count on "Johnny" to play and help his team. This has happened in many places and I have seen it first hand. If "Johnny" wants to play with his Dad and not the HS team, then that is a decision for the player and his parents. So, option B, find a HS coach that will allow you to do both.... That happens as well.... I have run a travel program and we did not get the HS players together until after the HS season was over. As a parent, I did not let my son play on another team during the HS season, nor did I consider it an option. Life is all about choices, make one and stick with it.
There are great travel programs in Florida and elsewhere throughout the country. If this will help a player get to the next level, and if a family has the financial resources to fund this, its a great option.
My final thought is this, a player needs to do what is best for his development as a player, ensure he will get quality playing time and at bats and if legion or travel baseball options in your area are quality in nature, it becomes a decision of what level of hardship the player and family will go though (i.e. financial, travel etc.).
Again, like college baseball, find your best fit and have fun during the summer, it goes by so quickly.
I apologize in advance if I have offended any Legion or travel coach as this is my opinion on this subject for whatever its worth.
As a High School coach and parent, I share the following;
Players need to get work during the summer! Quality work! If that means paying to play on a travel team, then so be it. It is sad to say, there are HS coaches that send out the rule "my team or no team" and that is not fair to the player and program. I have had players play on travel teams, show up once in a while for a summer HS game and no questions asked. I am glad they are playing quality baseball. Sure, I would like them to play with our summer squad to keep the core playing together, but I am in agreement, its all about exposure and the players get more exposure at the travel showcases and tournaments.
If your local legion program has quality coaching, a quality schedule and venues to get exposure, that should be highly considered when making the final decision. In short, decision should be pondered by the player and his parents without pressure from the HS coach. Let's face it, a player is not under any obligation to commit to his HS team during the summer. However, most HS programs offer the opportunity and that is what it is, an opprtunity to take or leave.
Long story short, players need to do what is best for them, like finding the right fit with respect to college programs.
As for the "in season" issue, if a player has made a commitment to play HS ball, his commitment is to finish what he started. The HS season ends soon enough and travel baseball picks up where the HS season ends. I know this is going to get some negative feedback, but it is my opinion for whatever its worth. Why would a parent want his son to play 5 or 6 days a week with his HS team, then go play a double header on Sunday? Is there any rest or recovery period, no. Let's not forget the term, "Student Athlete" and schoolwork. 7 days a week for baseball is a little extreme for me as a parent much less a coach. When I took over my current program, I ran into a lot of flack with some dad coaches (JV players) that felt that their kids can and SHOULD do both. Let's look at this for a second, "Johnny" pitches on Sunday for his Dad's team, shows up Monday and Tuesday with a sore or tired arm. "Johnny" is a pitcher and position player and coach has plans to play and/or pitch "Johnny." Is this fair to the HS team? In my opinion, No, a commitment was made to play HS ball and the coaching staff and his fellow players count on "Johnny" to play and help his team. This has happened in many places and I have seen it first hand. If "Johnny" wants to play with his Dad and not the HS team, then that is a decision for the player and his parents. So, option B, find a HS coach that will allow you to do both.... That happens as well.... I have run a travel program and we did not get the HS players together until after the HS season was over. As a parent, I did not let my son play on another team during the HS season, nor did I consider it an option. Life is all about choices, make one and stick with it.
There are great travel programs in Florida and elsewhere throughout the country. If this will help a player get to the next level, and if a family has the financial resources to fund this, its a great option.
My final thought is this, a player needs to do what is best for his development as a player, ensure he will get quality playing time and at bats and if legion or travel baseball options in your area are quality in nature, it becomes a decision of what level of hardship the player and family will go though (i.e. financial, travel etc.).
Again, like college baseball, find your best fit and have fun during the summer, it goes by so quickly.
I apologize in advance if I have offended any Legion or travel coach as this is my opinion on this subject for whatever its worth.
One big difference between Legion and Travel ball is that with Legion you are limited in the level of play by the kids available in your area. Each Legion team has distinct and specific boundaries that they can draw from, with waivers sometimes allowed only for parochiol and private school players to play either for their home-town Legion team or the team in their schools jurisdiction. But other than that, they get what they get. Some years there are many good players from the towns in the Legion team's area, and can field a good team. In other years they can't find a core group of talented players because they just aren't there, and consequently the team is mediocre. It works for the players who are there, but for someone who is capable and wants to play at a high level??? It's kind of an arbitrary cr@p shoot. Not the kind of thing you want to make a game plan around.
On the other hand, the best of the Travel programs attract players from all over, without the restrictions of Legion. They tend to have very good players year in and year out, field excellent teams and play against good competition in high level tourneys. If a boy is capable of playing at this level, then this is probably a better option.
On the other hand, the best of the Travel programs attract players from all over, without the restrictions of Legion. They tend to have very good players year in and year out, field excellent teams and play against good competition in high level tourneys. If a boy is capable of playing at this level, then this is probably a better option.
Good Day All,
Lots of good info here on this subject. Northern New England is not an easy place to try to become an elite level baseball player.
I am not saying it is impossible, just a difficult task.
If you are fortunate enough to live close to an AAU teams home, that gives you a chance to compete against some top clubs. Even if your team is weak, you will see the other organizations and make contacts.
There is a large risk to traveling distances to play for a team though and they need to be brought up.
Unless your with one of the very elite programs, be prepared to have your son's team managed by an other player's dad. Many AAU organiztions have a couple of very good baseball guys running the program. I mean the instructional and off-season work out aspect of the AAU experience. A player can receive tremendous instruction that he would never have seen by playing "in-town". Unfortunately, if the organization has 12U, 13U, 14U, 15U and possibly even 16U, It means that some of these teams have to be managed by dads. This leads to the usual conflicts that occur in these situations.
One of the biggest things you will run into is the "ringer". A guy on the roster, but who rarely if ever shows up at workouts or practices, but will be their on game day and in the lineup. Often this is done by the Dad/Coach as a favor to a good friend or sometimes he will just seek out players he knows and allow the scenario to play out.
Another common occurance (especially at 12U & 13U) is the local team that was successful in LL/Cal Ripken and now wants to stay together and play AAU. These teams often take out of town players to fill out the roster. This is not a big deal, IF the coach is honest about the situation and you realize what your getting into before you open up your wallet.
I am not trying to be negative here, or say that every dad coached team has these issues, but these are VERY real situations that do exist all over the AAU/Travel team scene. You want to be very frank & up front with the organizational people and the teams coaching staff about this.
After all its your money (anywhere from $1500 to $3000) and time (double headers both days every weekend and week day practices). The financial and time commitment is not one to take lightly.
We have done the AAU thing for last 4 yrs and now are into the American Legion level of ball now. There is very little we have not seen or experienced when it comes to AAU/Travel team ball. My son has had some incredible experiences and some very real heartbreak as well. He has grown a lot because of many life lessons he has experienced through baseball.
Last year he got the opportunity to play Legion ball as a 15 yr old. He knew he was not going to play much, but he did contribute when he got his chances. He also made a couple of good friends who go to neighboring schools. It wa sinteresting to watch them face each other this season in HS baseball and then no matter the outcome, be talking post game about the up coming legion season.
This year he will start the season as the starting first baseman and where he goes from there is up to him.
For my wife & myself, we are looking forward to a summer of much less travel, but some very good baseball.
Lots of good info here on this subject. Northern New England is not an easy place to try to become an elite level baseball player.
I am not saying it is impossible, just a difficult task.
If you are fortunate enough to live close to an AAU teams home, that gives you a chance to compete against some top clubs. Even if your team is weak, you will see the other organizations and make contacts.
There is a large risk to traveling distances to play for a team though and they need to be brought up.
Unless your with one of the very elite programs, be prepared to have your son's team managed by an other player's dad. Many AAU organiztions have a couple of very good baseball guys running the program. I mean the instructional and off-season work out aspect of the AAU experience. A player can receive tremendous instruction that he would never have seen by playing "in-town". Unfortunately, if the organization has 12U, 13U, 14U, 15U and possibly even 16U, It means that some of these teams have to be managed by dads. This leads to the usual conflicts that occur in these situations.
One of the biggest things you will run into is the "ringer". A guy on the roster, but who rarely if ever shows up at workouts or practices, but will be their on game day and in the lineup. Often this is done by the Dad/Coach as a favor to a good friend or sometimes he will just seek out players he knows and allow the scenario to play out.
Another common occurance (especially at 12U & 13U) is the local team that was successful in LL/Cal Ripken and now wants to stay together and play AAU. These teams often take out of town players to fill out the roster. This is not a big deal, IF the coach is honest about the situation and you realize what your getting into before you open up your wallet.
I am not trying to be negative here, or say that every dad coached team has these issues, but these are VERY real situations that do exist all over the AAU/Travel team scene. You want to be very frank & up front with the organizational people and the teams coaching staff about this.
After all its your money (anywhere from $1500 to $3000) and time (double headers both days every weekend and week day practices). The financial and time commitment is not one to take lightly.
We have done the AAU thing for last 4 yrs and now are into the American Legion level of ball now. There is very little we have not seen or experienced when it comes to AAU/Travel team ball. My son has had some incredible experiences and some very real heartbreak as well. He has grown a lot because of many life lessons he has experienced through baseball.
Last year he got the opportunity to play Legion ball as a 15 yr old. He knew he was not going to play much, but he did contribute when he got his chances. He also made a couple of good friends who go to neighboring schools. It wa sinteresting to watch them face each other this season in HS baseball and then no matter the outcome, be talking post game about the up coming legion season.
This year he will start the season as the starting first baseman and where he goes from there is up to him.
For my wife & myself, we are looking forward to a summer of much less travel, but some very good baseball.