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Apparently,the NCAA may be beginning to embark on an effort to further impact the ability of players who are drafted, and their families, to get advice.

I found this on another site. This was posted today on ESPN and follows and earlier article by Jerry Crasnick.

"Re: NCAA cracks down on baseball advisers Reply
NCAA's antics will push talent away
Friday, September 25, 2009
Posted by Keith Law

The NCAA's war on its own players -- at least its baseball players -- appears to be moving into a new, more aggressive phase. It has to do with a questionnaire obtained by several of us at ESPN.com, including myself and Jerry Crasnick, who wrote about this new development earlier this week.

The questionnaire was sent to players who were drafted this June but did not sign. It asks recipients to violate their own attorney-client privilege in a number of ways while also asking them to provide the NCAA with evidence that would allow it to revoke the players' eligibility, should the judicial order issued by Judge Tygh Tone in February be vacated or overturned at any point. (The judge ruled that the NCAA cannot prevent players from hiring advisers in direct contact with major league clubs.)

The questions included:

3. Did your adviser have any direct communications with any MLB clubs on your behalf?
4. Did your adviser discuss your signability with any clubs?
10. What percentage of your signing bonus would your adviser have received had you signed. (This would have been discussed during your initial meeting(s) with your adviser.)
11. If you have a written agreement with your adviser, please fax a copy of this agreement ... as soon as possible.

Make no mistake about this: The NCAA is trying to limit players' negotiating power because it wants to reduce the chances that they sign pro contracts. That would steer more talented prep players into college and retain more college players for another year of eligibility.

Most major league clubs will tell you that they want to negotiate with experienced agents who (a) understand the financial structure of the game and (b) know what is and is not standard in a first-year player contract. That kind of agent is vastly preferred over parents or family friends, who lack both the experience and the knowledge that would keep their demands in line with the loose market for amateur players.

In short, the NCAA is protecting college baseball at the expense of players' rights, their professional futures and their financial well-being.

The NCAA insists that the Eligibility Center is just gathering information and that the NCAA has no intention of violating Judge Tone's order. This is technically true, but the questionnaire's only apparent purpose is to gather information that may be used to revoke eligibility of players in the event that Judge Tone's order is overturned on appeal. If the order is vacated in any way, the NCAA will have a store of information it can use to take its revenge on players who did nothing more nefarious than use attorneys to attempt to negotiate major financial transactions for them. It is a right we all take for granted when making major life decisions like changing jobs or buying a house. And because the NCAA threatens to revoke the eligibility of a player who doesn't fill out the questionnaire -- even if the player's attorney advises him not to fill it out -- the best course of action for many players will be to lie.

What the NCAA has never made clear is this: What, exactly, is the harm to the player or to college athletics if a player uses outside counsel to negotiate with a professional team and then chooses not to sign? The player still remains an amateur in the dictionary definition of the term. He is still an unsigned player who has not received direct financial compensation for his services.

But the NCAA is trying to hold players to its own arbitrary standard of amateur-ness -- one that is out of date and at odds with MLB's practice of drafting and sometimes signing players out of high school. If the NCAA doesn't end this witch hunt, don't be surprised to see even more players sign out of high school rather than expose themselves to arbitrary and capricious punishments from the NCAA, with some players fleeing for junior colleges or NAIA programs instead.

It is possible that the NCAA will end up going in a new direction when it chooses a permanent successor to the late Myles Brand in the coming months. In the meantime, this questionnaire, and the obvious intent behind it, means that the NCAA is as determined as ever to protect its cartel at the expense of players' rights and wallets. Let's hope that future jurists agree with Judge Tone and decide that the NCAA has overstepped its authority."

With the next collective bargaining agreement likely to impact the draft, and with Bud more and more wanting to restrict bonuses and oversee slot money, players need more and better advice.
They don't need the NCAA putting them in this dilemma.
Between the NCAA and MLB, players, and their families, are going to be squeezed. In fact, the better the player, the potential for more squeeze, and bigger jeopardy.
If one looks at the long term implications, more players wills sign out of high school at a lesser bonus. The player loses financially. This will also result in more players without any college education washing out of Milb at an earlier age. The player loses.
This will result in more drafted college juniors having less leverage, less information, and less bonus. The player loses.
This seemingly results in more players returning for the 4th year of college where they will be a senior sign, with less leverage and less draft slots because more high school and JC players will be signing to avoid the dilemma. The player loses again unless he has his degree, then he just loses financially.
At least in jeopardy, you have a chance to win. Don't see it here except for MLB and the NCAA. Nothing here for the player, is there?

'You don't have to be a great player to play in the major leagues, you've got to be a good one every day.'

Last edited {1}
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There is really nothing new to report for
College Sr signs who have very little leverage when negotiating a MiLB 'standard' contract.

For the MLBPU, the collective bargaining agreements have worked and quite well. And it's far to early to guess correctly whether future CBA will or will not impact Big League baseball let alone MiLB.
Last edited by Bear
Thank you infielddad. Neither my son nor I had any idea about this until now. So far he's received nothing of the sort.

What alarms me most is this line. "And because the NCAA threatens to revoke the eligibility of a player who doesn't fill out the questionnaire -- even if the player's attorney advises him not to fill it out -- the best course of action for many players will be to lie."

I really want to doubt that the NCAA would go that far to prove a point, but I know they could. The NCAA can seriously mess with a young man's career if they want to. Evidently, Judge Tone's ruling hasn't stopped them from trying to restrict an athlete's access to counsel.


Here's the updated piece by Crasnick. I'm definitely going to keep my eyes peeled on this issue.
Jerry Crasnick- NCAA cracks down on baseball advisers
Bear,
Are you saying you would recommend that your son, if he were in this situation, provide all the information to the NCAA?
Are you supporting the view that all the son's of parents who post on this site provide the information the NCAA is requesting for those who were drafted in 2009, and didn't sign?
Of course senior signs have never had any leverage.
The point of the article is there will be more of them, for one, and some may not be playing their senior year in college if they answer yes to any of the NCAA mandated questions.
Or maybe it is just business as usual and the NCAA is just doing a nice survey about players and advisors?
Bear -
I'm not sure what your post has to do with the issue brought up in this article. It's not about the MLB collective bargaining agreement, it is about the NCAA overstepping its bounds, asking for information that could easily be used against a player if the court decision was ever overturned or weakened, as the NCAA is clearly trying to make happen.

To me, this is very concerning. The NCAA sure doesn't seem to get the point of the judge's decision.
quote:
it is about the NCAA overstepping its bounds, asking for information that could easily be used against a player

Rob, I see this a little bit differently. Not about the rule itself; it's a very poor rule. But the NCAA asks for lots of information that could be used against a player-- and it should. For example, the NCAA asks for high school transcripts and test scores. Most of us think that's OK, because we believe that students-athletes should meet some minimum standard of academic achievement.

I also think the article mis-states the position of the NCAA. The NCAA of course won't try to violate Judge Tone's order, but the NCAA, not surprisingly, also takes the position that the order only has force in Ohio. Hence the questionnaire is just asking for information in relationship to an existing, still operative rule. The reality is that we-- players, parents, agents--have been collectively lying about our behavior with respect to this rule for years. Now the NCAA is tightening the screws by asking players to sign their name to the lie. (In the past, the NCAA has sent out a letter saying, effectively, "don't break the rule." Now they are asking, "have you broken the rule?")

My advice is to continue to follow the rule, and not to regard it as suspended.

My hope is that the NCAA will officially change the rule. Then we can stop pretending.
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
Good post infielddad.

Maybe the NCAA should use this questionaire as a fact finding mission, perhaps they will understand that baseball, unlike football or basketball, places a potential college player in a unique situation, than those sports mentioned above.
I am not familiar but if a football player declares himself eligible for the draft, does he lose eligibilty if he is not drafted, don't most of them now have the ability to speak with agents/advisors? You can't tell me these teams never speak to anyone but the player?
How is a player supposed to answer that? I will bet there are a lot of advisors who speak to teams without the player's knowledge.
The NCAA should be more interested in protecting a player against the agents/advisors who are out to squeeze the player and his family, and MLB who loves more than anything not to have to negotiate with agents like Scott Boras.
The NCAA and MLB seem to be working together in creating a standard slot, this eliminates negotiating. Am I the only one who gets that impression?
3finger -
I understand what you are saying, but I think this issue shows how arrogant the NCAA really is. They get an unfavorable court decision in Ohio, on a rule that I am convinced is solely aimed at hampering the player's negotiating ability, and then they take the position that there is no precedent outside of Ohio.

Yes, that technically legally is probably true. But it shows that even though a court has said that what they are doing is wrong, they are not only continuing with the rule, but they are stepping UP their enforcement of it by trying to get players to essentially swear out an affadavit stating whether they have complied.

At what point do they ever ask what is in the best interest of the players? Do they even pretend that this rule is anything but a protectionist rule for thier own interests?

I hope someone litigates the thing in federal court so the decision will have nationwide precendence. It is ridiculous that a player can't have a legal representative in a contract negotiation without losing amateur status.
Last edited by Rob Kremer
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
Bear -
I'm not sure what your post has to do with the issue brought up in this article. It's not about the MLB collective bargaining agreement, /...
The NCAA sure doesn't seem to get the point of the judge's decision.



Rob, you appear to be a smart man.
Let's bring up some background, bring to surface some thoughts, and then end with what you may believe.

NCAA has been collecting data from collegiate players since infinidum.
Especially from the biggest of the NCAA concerns, the major revenue producing sports.

The Jr and Sr NCAA Collegiate baseball players, (and as adults), are frequently asked to complete questionairres (as presented by the schools compliance officers). It is not mandatory.

MLB, on several occasions, has attempted to collaborate with and improve it's relationship with the NCAA. (i.e. Removing the winter draft. Adjusting the calender for signees...., offering opinions on advisors/agents, others)

And the MLBPU is one of if not the strongest of unions that I can remember (except maybe the truckers and FAA)

Bottom Line: Collegiate Players will continue to be asked to go above and beyond performing 'free tasks' for the NCAA including but not limited to:
completing NCAA paper work; peeing in a cup; not having the ability work to make a living

.......and without a collegiate baseball player unified voice, the NCAA will continue to do so...

The MLBPU will continue becoming stronger.
I prefer to see some strength and bargaining provided to the pro players in the MiLB.

And the CBA will continue being examined and adjusted by the MLBPU and MLB owners.....for the good of the game.

"We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things the general public does not need to know and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows."

-- Katharine Graham, Democrat
owner Washington Post,

And Katie's the one who bought the jingle
'When you don't get it, You don't get it'

And we have a differing view point w/r to the NCAA's relationship with and between MLB.
quote:
Rob, you appear to be a smart man.
Let's bring up some background, bring to surface some thoughts, and then end with what you may believe.

NCAA has been collecting data from collegiate players since infinidum.
Especially from the biggest of the NCAA concerns, the major revenue producing sports. I don't dispute this at all.

The Jr and Sr NCAA Collegiate baseball players, (and as adults), are frequently asked to complete questionairres (as presented by the schools compliance officers). It is not mandatory. No dispute here either.

MLB, on several occasions, has attempted to collaborate with and improve it's relationship with the NCAA. (i.e. Removing the winter draft. Adjusting the calender for signees...., offering opinions on advisors/agents, others) Wondering about the relevance...

And the MLBPU is one of if not the strongest of unions that I can remember (except maybe the truckers and FAA) Still wondering...

Bottom Line: Collegiate Players will continue to be asked to go above and beyond performing 'free tasks' for the NCAA including but not limited to:
completing NCAA paper work; peeing in a cup; not having the ability work to make a living

.......and without a collegiate baseball player unified voice, the NCAA will continue to do so... This sounds as if you are agreeing with me - that the NCAA is not concerned with the players' interests.

The MLBPU will continue becoming stronger.
I prefer to see some strength and bargaining provided to the pro players in the MiLB. Irrelevant to my point.

And the CBA will continue being examined and adjusted by the MLBPU and MLB owners.....for the good of the game. Irrelevant to my point.

"We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things the general public does not need to know and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows."

-- Katharine Graham, Democrat
owner Washington Post,

And Katie's the one who bought the jingle
'When you don't get it, You don't get it'
Considering the Washington Post is basically bankrupt, I am not sure what quoting Queen Katie, who started the long slide of mainstream journalism into the abyss of thinly veiled political advocacy, is a very convincing argument, even if I had a clue what point you are trying to make, which I don't.

And we have a differing view point w/r to the NCAA's relationship with and between MLB. I never stated anything about my view on the relationship between NCAA and MLB. My point was that the NCAA cares not a whit about the college players' interests, and in fact actively seeks, through intimidation and bogus rules, to act against their interests. Nothing you posted here is at all relevant to that point.
Last edited by Rob Kremer
An article in the NYT this morning indicated Oliver settled. The NCAA paid $750,000.
In exchange, Oliver settled his right to a trial on his damages, the NCAA admits no liability, and, for all of us to recognize, the Judge dismissed the restraining Order he issued against the NCAA.
That last aspect, to me, will be the most important for every potential high draftee,and his family, to assess on a going forward basis.

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