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Little League Ump's Strike-Three Call

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piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
truly pathetic........

In my association, you wouldnt get away with that...

At least for every one of those guys, we have one of the below....


Umpire Marty York

One definition of a hero is a person who steps up to the plate during a critical moment. Marty York should know all about that, he's a baseball umpire in middle Tennessee. He steps to the plate during critical moments all the time. But what makes Marty today's Hero of the Day is what happened just outside the diamond, at a youth field parking lot. At this critical moment it was life or death.


On April 26, eight year old Maddox Greathouse was playing baseball at a Franklin, TN sports complex. Maddox's mother was at another field watching another son play. Suddenly, a tornadic storm blew in bringing torrential rains and high winds. The storm sent children and parents running for their cars. Maddox was searching for his mother in the rain when longtime youth umpire Marty York scooped up the youngster just before a nearby car flipped over at the spot where the boy had been standing.


Marty was recognized at a special ceremony at the Franklin complex, and Maddox gave Marty a plaque for his heroic actions before hundreds of cheering parents.You know what Marty said about his heroic deed? "He was a brave kid that I just scooped up out of the rain and God did the rest."

Id partner up with Marty York anyday.....
Last edited by piaa_ump
mcmmccmmcmmccm100+ posts
There are two players principally battling at that point, the pitcher and the batter. Perhaps the umpire is celebrating a great pitching effort. I personally love it when the Umpire is dramatic and into the game and performance. Those umpires who can barely be heard or seen detract from the game when everyone is trying to guess what the call was. I will bet the team in the field and their parents (especially the pitcher’s parents) were also celebrating. Things like this make the highs higher and the lows lower, I would rather it were like this than just giving everyone a participation ribbon and not celebrating achievement.

I am sorry if little Johnny cries his eyes out on the way back to the dugout, but maybe he should have swung at the called third strike. Maybe next time he will be more aggressive at the plate and not wait for the umpire to award him first base. Let the coach pickup the kid who failed at the plate. Sometimes it's the adversity that propels people to greatness or weeds out the player who doesn’t belong on the field or court, it's not for everyone.


Way to go Marty York!!! Looking out for the kids in the face of peril.
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
Ump is a jerk! The best umpires will tell you that they have done their best work when you can't tell that they have been involved in the game at all. Truly professional umps would never show up a young player like this.

IMO, the best umpires:

  • Know the rules.
  • Are consistent
  • Don't want to be "the show."
  • Communicate with both players and coaches in a professional manner.
  • Know when they have to take control of a game where emotions are high.
  • Love the game and see the bigger picture of what they contribute to sport.
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt13:
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
The best umpires will tell you that they have done their best work when you can't tell that they have been involved in the game at all.


This is not true.


Matt, please explain why I am wrong.


Two reasons:

1. The best umpires don't say that.
2. Umpires that do say that do not take control when needed. They do not do anything that may rock the boat, even if doing so is the proper thing. They look for the easy way out of any pressure situation.
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
Matt and Jimmy, I have heard this statement from the best the State of Illinois has to offer at several umpring clinics. In fact, I've also witnessed these same umps do so in state championship games I've coached in. So, I'll take their words for it. Thanks for the response.


They are wrong. Sad part is, I have a hunch of who said it--and he is not that good.

I have never heard this in any collegiate, professional, nor competent HS training; in fact, quite the opposite. This is not a job for wallflowers.
Last edited by Matt13
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
quote:
Originally posted by Matt13:
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
Matt and Jimmy, I have heard this statement from the best the State of Illinois has to offer at several umpring clinics. In fact, I've also witnessed these same umps do so in state championship games I've coached in. So, I'll take their words for it. Thanks for the response.


They are wrong. Sad part is, I have a hunch of who said it--and he is not that good.

I have never heard this in any collegiate, professional, nor competent HS training; in fact, quite the opposite. This is not a job for wallflowers.


Matt are you then saying that the Umpire is the show. That good umpires need and deserve the attention as with the umpire in the OP? Are you saying that good umpires can not conduct themselves professionally during a game without bringing attention to themselves? Are you saying that the best umpires don't check their egos at the gate as they walk on to the field?
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
Matt are you then saying that the Umpire is the show. That good umpires need and deserve the attention as with the umpire in the OP?


I said nothing of the sort.

quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
Are you saying that good umpires can not conduct themselves professionally during a game without bringing attention to themselves?


You're **** right I'm saying that. Doing the job properly sometimes involves bringing attention upon myself. I shut an assistant coach down for jawjacking, that brings attention on me. I call a balk in a tight game, that brings attention on me. I don't hide behind a mask just so I don't have people mad at me.

quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
Are you saying that the best umpires don't check their egos at the gate as they walk on to the field?


I love it when people say this...it shows that they know nothing about the profession. Just because I do my job, do it properly, and have to take care of business does not mean my ego is too big.

If it's a clean game, and nothing out of the ordinary happens, great, but it is what it is. I like those games. An umpire is a failure if he views quietness of games as a benchmark for his abilities.
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
Ump is a jerk! The best umpires will tell you that they have done their best work when you can't tell that they have been involved in the game at all. Truly professional umps would never show up a young player like this.

IMO, the best umpires:

  • Know the rules.
  • Are consistent
  • Don't want to be "the show."
  • Communicate with both players and coaches in a professional manner.
  • Know when they have to take control of a game where emotions are high.
  • Love the game and see the bigger picture of what they contribute to sport.


Matt, I believe you missed my point #5 above and nowhere in my post did I mention that an umpire ceases to enforce the rules of a contest. Yes, that can draw attention to yourself, if as you put it, "YOU SHUT AN ASSISTANT DOWN." However, a good umpire, imo, would go to the head coach and tell the head coach that you will not tolerate any "stuff" from the assistant coach or that assistant will be run.

Matt, ironically, you prove my ego point with your response. I'll have to leave it at that. Per the not understanding the profession of umpiring, I guess that would depend upon your experience versus mine. If you've got more experience than I, I take my hat off to you. Obviously, you know to whom I was referring to in my post since you stated you knew who it was and so, if you know more than the guy who is in charge of the IHSA for umpiring then you certainly have much experience. As you know, in the State of Illinois until two years ago, head coaches and umpires were required to meet at various approved sites throughout the state to hear rule changes and a word from IHSA administration with regards to rule enforcement. So, I speak as to the message so often repeated at those meetings.
Last edited by CoachB25
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
Matt, I believe you missed my point #5 above and nowhere in my post did I mention that an umpire ceases to enforce the rules of a contest. Yes, that can draw attention to yourself, if as you put it, "YOU SHUT AN ASSISTANT DOWN." However, a good umpire, imo, would go to the head coach and tell the head coach that you will not tolerate any "stuff" from the assistant coach or that assistant will be run.


Sometimes. Sometimes not. Situationally dependent. I prefer to deal with the assistant directly--that way there is no way he can miss the message. Remember, assistants don't get the same "courtesies" head coaches do, both by convention and by rule.

quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
Matt, ironically, you prove my ego point with your response. I'll have to leave it at that. Per the not understanding the profession of umpiring, I guess that would depend upon your experience versus mine. If you've got more experience than I, I take my hat off to you. Obviously, you know to whom I was referring to in my post since you stated you knew who it was and so, if you know more than the guy who is in charge of the IHSA for umpiring then you certainly have much experience. As you know, in the State of Illinois until two years ago, head coaches and umpires were required to meet at various approved sites throughout the state to hear rule changes and a word from IHSA administration with regards to rule enforcement. So, I speak as to the message so often repeated at those meetings.


1. I stated that I have a hunch. I know two of the umpires who conduct those meetings--one would say the statement in question, and the only reason he has reached the level in the state he has is due to being in the club. The second would defecate bricks if he heard anyone say that.

2. What I said had nothing to do with ego. Rules meetings once a year mean about as much in knowing what an umpire does as a visit to the ER means to a knowing what a doctor does. People like to think they know what umpires do--I can tell you, until someone has been trained by competent trainers, he/she does not. It is that simple. In addition, that training only provides a base of knowledge--umpires continually need to hone their skills.

I'm not one to name-drop, but I can provide the perfect example: one MLB umpire with whom I am friends asked me a rules question one night in a game of stump-the-chump (a lot of umpires do this to get opinions and discussion.) I gave him a different answer than what he was expecting. He insisted that he was right, so we pulled out the MLBUM--which showed that I was. Here we had a guy in MLB, who had been a professional umpire for a dozen years, not knowing the intricacy of a rule that neither of us had ever had to enforce.

Sometimes umpires start to get foggy about rules they don't ever use. Sometimes mechanics change. Sometimes rules change. Sometimes interpretations change. That's why we work continously to stay at the same level of skill, and work harder to get better. No one, and I mean no one, that has not done this can understand the ins-and-outs of both the art and science of this profession.

I was doing a HS playoff game a few years back. Home team was up by one with bases loaded. Ground ball to F4, who starts the DP. F6 comes across the bag with the ball and starts his throw from the right-field side of the bag. R1 slides outside the bag and takes out F6. My call of interference ended the visitors' season. I got accused of wanting to draw attention to myself. I had no trouble sleeping that night.

Are there umpires out there that have power trips? Yep. But they are far outnumbered by fans, coaches, and players that think umpires have power trips when they are simply doing their jobs. That's why the quote in question is so asinine. It provides justification for a ludicrous proposition.
Last edited by Matt13
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
Runner on third. Bottom of the last. Tie score. Pitchers doesn't come set...flagrant balk.

So what happens. Does the umpire ignore the balk in hopes no one saw it, or does he do his job, which is to see that neither team gets an advantage not intended by the rule and call the balk?

He will certainly not be invisible if he does his job. The defensive coach will accuse him of inserting himself in the game. The best umpires will work the last inning like they worked the first. They won't look for opportunities to draw attention to themselves, but they won't avoid making the tough calls that result in that attention, either.

To say that being unnoticed is in anyway a sign of quality or success is just plain stupid. And I have that from Craig Anderson.
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt13:

1. I stated that I have a hunch. I know two of the umpires who conduct those meetings--one would say the statement in question, and the only reason he has reached the level in the state he has is due to being in the club.


His initials wouldn't be MS would they?


Maybe...maybe not.
Last edited by Matt13
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
So, my statement is now taken to the extreme to of an umpire not doing their job to make your point. Listen, given the nature of the job, there are those games where naturally, you will have to make tough calls that one party will not like. The rules are always to be enforced. My argument is that in most cases, you can do so without drawing attention to yourself. The example I gave to Matt's situation is the perfect example. The Umpire can go to the head coach and tell him that he has had enough and so another word from the assistant coach and the asistant coach will be tossed. Having been a head coach for sometime and in multiple sports, I'm going to go to my assistant and tell them to shutup. I would realize that the umpire has extended a courtesy and could have tossed the assitant the instant that they started chirping. No one would notice, the umpire would not have to walk to the dugout to warn the assistant drawing attention to himself and the game flow would not be unduly interrupted. Matt states that he's going to go after the assistant coach. IMO, then you'll (generic umpire and not personal reference to Matt) get the drama/attention that you are looking for and will become the show.

Matt, in your response to one of my posts, you argue that coaches who attend those once a year meetings are clueless to the rules. In fact, you argue that umpiring is analgolus to being a Doctor. Matt, I'm sure that you believe that. Given the majority of guys I see umpiring and while I think the world of them, I'm not giving most of them credit for above average intelligence. (I'd say the same about myself and coaches in general.) In fact, years of reading the rule book, playing the game, coaching games, interacting with umpires in all types of situations ... give most coaches a firm idea of the rules of the game. Certainly, many posters might remember my role on some state association advisory teams and the fallout from one member here that went beyond the pale when he found out that I once served in that capacity and so, I'll just leave it at I've had my share of going through the rulebook and rules application as they pertain in my state.

Take care,

Darrell
Bulldog 19Bulldog 195,000+ posts
quote:
Runner on third. Bottom of the last. Tie score. Pitchers doesn't come set...flagrant balk.

So what happens. Does the umpire ignore the balk in hopes no one saw it, or does he do his job, which is to see that neither team gets an advantage not intended by the rule and call the balk?


Guess the question becomes "has it been happening all night?" Because if it has and you only call it in that crucial point then you better believe there are going to be unhappy people! Rightfully so.
M Matt1310,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
So, my statement is now taken to the extreme to of an umpire not doing their job to make your point. Listen, given the nature of the job, there are those games where naturally, you will have to make tough calls that one party will not like. The rules are always to be enforced. My argument is that in most cases, you can do so without drawing attention to yourself. The example I gave to Matt's situation is the perfect example. The Umpire can go to the head coach and tell him that he has had enough and so another word from the assistant coach and the asistant coach will be tossed. Having been a head coach for sometime and in multiple sports, I'm going to go to my assistant and tell them to shutup. I would realize that the umpire has extended a courtesy and could have tossed the assitant the instant that they started chirping. No one would notice, the umpire would not have to walk to the dugout to warn the assistant drawing attention to himself and the game flow would not be unduly interrupted. Matt states that he's going to go after the assistant coach. IMO, then you'll (generic umpire and not personal reference to Matt) get the drama/attention that you are looking for and will become the show.

Matt, in your response to one of my posts, you argue that coaches who attend those once a year meetings are clueless to the rules. In fact, you argue that umpiring is analgolus to being a Doctor. Matt, I'm sure that you believe that. Given the majority of guys I see umpiring and while I think the world of them, I'm not giving most of them credit for above average intelligence. (I'd say the same about myself and coaches in general.) In fact, years of reading the rule book, playing the game, coaching games, interacting with umpires in all types of situations ... give most coaches a firm idea of the rules of the game. Certainly, many posters might remember my role on some state association advisory teams and the fallout from one member here that went beyond the pale when he found out that I once served in that capacity and so, I'll just leave it at I've had my share of going through the rulebook and rules application as they pertain in my state.

Take care,

Darrell


YHGTBSM. Do you always put this much stuff in other people's mouths?
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
The example I gave to Matt's situation is the perfect example. The Umpire can go to the head coach and tell him that he has had enough and so another word from the assistant coach and the asistant coach will be tossed. Having been a head coach for sometime and in multiple sports, I'm going to go to my assistant and tell them to shutup.
Take care,

Darrell


I'm certain you mean well coach, but your suggestion, in my opinion, demonstrates a lack of understanding. First, an experienced good umpire would never tell a coach "another word." Quite often, the next word is "word" as the coach challenges the umpire. The umpire has just painted himself in a corner. Is he really going to eject the coach and write a report in which he cites a reason for the ejection is that the coach said, "word", or is he going to go back on his ultimatum?

There's the infamous incident in which a MiLB umpire told a manager "one more peep and you're done." This was followed, course by the manager saying, "Peep, peep, peep, peep, peep, peep." The manager was ejected and the umpire downgraded for boxing himself in and having to write a ridiculous ejection report.

Umpires should never give ultimatums.

Second, umpires should deal with the coach causing a problem, not his boss. I've seen a rookie try your approach. Soon he was engulfed in a conversation with the head coach who decided to play the "why" game. Next, he has two ejections instead of one.

If an assistant coach has crossed the line, he gets ejected. In person. That's not being the show, that's enforcing the rules. Now, that ejection can be done informatively...."coach, you're done for the day"...or, admittedly, it can done aggressively. Unfortunately, when the ejection comes at the end of a heated situation, some umpire let their pumped up adrenaline or emotion rule the ejection. I would agree that that shouldn't happen. But it is protocol to warn and/or eject the culpable person, not someone else.

Although back in the 80's, at the NCAA level it was customary, in some situations, to eject an innocent assistant instead of the guilty head coach. This was an accepted practice seen as a courtesy by the umpires and encouraged by the coaches. I can remember times when an ejection became obvious, the umpire would say, "Okay Skip, who's gonna be? And the head coach would turn, look at his bench and say, "Take him." I don't think I've seen this done in the past 15 years.
Last edited by Jimmy03
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
quote:
Runner on third. Bottom of the last. Tie score. Pitchers doesn't come set...flagrant balk.

So what happens. Does the umpire ignore the balk in hopes no one saw it, or does he do his job, which is to see that neither team gets an advantage not intended by the rule and call the balk?


Guess the question becomes "has it been happening all night?" Because if it has and you only call it in that crucial point then you better believe there are going to be unhappy people! Rightfully so.


You apparently missed the part of calling the game the same in the last inning as in the first inning.

Allowing a balk to go uncalled at point in the game is giving the defense an advantage specifically not intended by rule.

Here's a question for all coaches, why is it that whenever I present that scenario, on a forum or in a coaches clinic, every coach in the room immediately seen the call through the eyes of the defensive coach and not the offensive coach? In reality, I've never had the offensive coach complain about a balk a call.
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
Matt, how can you say that I am spouting “stuff” that wasn’t said by you. You said, “Rules meetings once a year mean about as much in knowing what an umpire does as a visit to the ER means to a knowing what a doctor does.” I then posted that a coach’s perspective is based upon many more things than just one rules meeting per year. My perception from your statement was that umpiring requires a higher level of intelligence and can’t be understood by anyone other than an umpire. Your analogy was that as a coach I’d have as much of umpiring as I would have understanding what a Doctor does after visiting the emergency room. I didn’t make that up. To further make your point as to the higher level of training that is required to umpire you went on to say, “No one, and I mean no one, that has not done this can understand the ins-and-outs of both the art and science of this profession.” Again, not trying to put words into your mouth but responding to what you posted.
Jimmy, I think your position on that assistant is valid but I disagree in most cases that it would result in two ejections. I have to speak as to my experience for a few decades of coaching and both you and Matt have to respond as to your experience as umpires. Apparently they are not similar. What a shame.

This has been a great discussion. I hope that everyone reading has had a chance to read both perceptions and that the membership here has something to think about. Jimmy and Matt, THANKS!
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