LLWS - Foul Call Overturned On Replay

announcers were saying it was called fair on the field. Clearly the 3b ump called it foul. Maybe the home plate ump called it fair at the same time? Isn't this ball the plate umps call? Any way you look at it, the kids on the field got screwed. Bad calls happen, just hate to see it be this costly.

ESPN showed footage last night which both the base ump calling foul and the plate ump pointing fair at the exact same time. The coach at 3rd was clearly looking at the plate ump pointing fair and was sending runner the whole way before the base ump entered picture.

I don't know who call it was but I think the result was completely accurate to the play even if the method of getting there was totally wrong. Kinda like my algebra experiences in a past life!!

There was never going to be a play at the plate on that ball, it was either fair or foul so it didn't feel to me like the defense got screwed.

if you watch the link Newump provided you can see the coach turns his head from the 3b ump to home before 3b lifts his hands in any way, it is at the 26 second mark to 30.

@old_school posted:

ESPN showed footage last night which both the base ump calling foul and the plate ump pointing fair at the exact same time. The coach at 3rd was clearly looking at the plate ump pointing fair and was sending runner the whole way before the base ump entered picture.

I don't know who call it was but I think the result was completely accurate to the play even if the method of getting there was totally wrong. Kinda like my algebra experiences in a past life!!

There was never going to be a play at the plate on that ball, it was either fair or foul so it didn't feel to me like the defense got screwed.

I agree with your last sentence. There would not have been a play at the plate under any circumstance. The LF was positioned straight away at best. Even if he had sprinted to the LF corner and made the best throw of his life the runner scores. I think the reason that there is so much discussion about this is b/c the umpiring overall has just been horrible. Especially behind the plate. Pitches over a foot outside are regularly called strikes by a lot of umpires. I know they are volunteers and all that. But I’m a volunteer too, and if I was that bad I would be shown the door.

@old_school posted:

ESPN showed footage last night which both the base ump calling foul and the plate ump pointing fair at the exact same time. The coach at 3rd was clearly looking at the plate ump pointing fair and was sending runner the whole way before the base ump entered picture.

I don't know who call it was but I think the result was completely accurate to the play even if the method of getting there was totally wrong. Kinda like my algebra experiences in a past life!!

There was never going to be a play at the plate on that ball, it was either fair or foul so it didn't feel to me like the defense got screwed.

Part of the confusion is caused by taking umps that have worked all season and most of their lives in a 2 man system and throwing them into a 4 man system.  Add to that the 4 are not familiar with each other and you have a recipe for disaster. 

In a 2 man crew that call is 100% of the time the HP.  In 4 man it was the U3 call,  From the mechanics manual ...U3 Coverage ..."Call fir/foul on ground balls from front edge of third base or bounding over the base..."

In addition, the foul call is verbalized.  The fair call is silent and indicated only with a point of the finger into fair territory.

As to if there would be a play at the plate, no one can say for sure what would have happened.

Every year the umpires are scrutinized for their terrible zones.  And from what we see on TV I would agree.  These assignments should be made thru an evaluation process and not because someone wants to volunteer and is willing to pay their own way.

LL umpires range in ability from excellent to extremely mediocre (being polite). They get these big post season games based on tenure and the good ole boy network. The worst umpire from my son’s LL has done the LLwS and every other level of the LL post season.

He once called my son out for “must slide” at home on a wild pitch when there wasn’t a play at the plate. The pitcher ran in front of him in front of the plate when there wasn’t a throw. There was a collision. He still made it to the plate.. It should have been  a no call or obstruction.

I’ll give LL umpires credit for volunteering and paying their own way.

I don't know about the call, and I don't want to start a whole thread on the LLWS, but from what I've seen, the level of play seems way down to me compared to 5-6 years ago. Maybe it was the -13 rocket launchers and 6'3" 13 year olds? Anyway, that was a lot more fun to watch.

@nycdad posted:

I don't know about the call, and I don't want to start a whole thread on the LLWS, but from what I've seen, the level of play seems way down to me compared to 5-6 years ago. Maybe it was the -13 rocket launchers and 6'3" 13 year olds? Anyway, that was a lot more fun to watch.

You are right about the better quality of play with the 13 year olds...older players are having the same impact across all levels of college baseball also....the quality of play is better...

@nycdad posted:

I don't know about the call, and I don't want to start a whole thread on the LLWS, but from what I've seen, the level of play seems way down to me compared to 5-6 years ago. Maybe it was the -13 rocket launchers and 6'3" 13 year olds? Anyway, that was a lot more fun to watch.

You are right about the level of play being down. Also, I’m seeing more overweight kids this year than I ever remember.

I just watched the Iowa-Missouri game. I didn’t see hard throwers or line drives being hit. In addition to removing the older kids (good idea) maybe less kids are playing LL. They could be playing travel or other sports instead. We’re probably getting to the generation of dads where they didn’t all grew up playing baseball and didn’t passed the love of the game on to their kids.

I've learned to just ignore the strike zone in LLWS play - from what I understand they are told what to do; otherwise, games may not fit into the 2 hour time slot... Left and right - take it, up and down - be careful.

Mechanically w/ 3 or 4 man and U3, typically during the pregame the plate guy will tell you what he prefers (cutout or up to the bag) and it's his call. I have to assume that for LLWS like CDP, the "powers that be" tell you exactly what *they* want. In any case, whether it's 60 or 90 feet, balls down the line can get there in a hurry. I've always found the one down the 3B line the hardest especially with a RH batter - there's usually 2 people close to you and 2 people further away blocking your view.

Surprised no one mentioned the coaches interference call at 1B when the coach in the coaches box got hit by an errant throw and the BR was called out... My son says to me - if it's going to be close, then I'm just aiming for the coach after that ;-)

Not completely true about paying your own way from past experience.  I called the Southeast Regional series 2 years in a row years ago and never called a LL game until the state tournament.  Our assigning secretary assigned the state tournament and they paid us to call it from Georgia LL.  Then he asked three of us if we were willing to go to the Southeast Regional and I went.  They paid for motels, meals, and a small stipend for gas.  None of us called LL during the year but HS and college.  2 of us got invited to go to LLWS but I had already taken off for the Regional and was going to do it again but I understand LLWS is the same.  They pay for all expenses but don't pay you other than small stipend to cover extra expenses.

The strike zone is horrendous.  I did not go back a third year because I refused to call the strike zone they wanted.  My conversation with the Southeast Regional director of umpires was if they can't throw it close to strike zone they should not be here.  I will not change the zone that is in the rule book other than what I normally do.  But no way I'm calling balls in batter boxes.  I laugh when I see it nowadays.