LLWS observations if anyone is watching

I watched most of the SW regional games.  I didn’t realize they moved the eligibility requirements until your post.  I was thinking the talent level was much weaker than years past and now it makes some sense due to age.   I think it’s a good idea though.  No reason a 13 yr old should be playing on a 50/70 field anyway.  Oh yeah, I did notice the crazy parents hootin from the stands in the games I watched.   Pretty funny.  Around here, you can usually guess the age of the kids just by how many squeals and obnoxious cheering, and especially jawing at the ump, that are coming from parents in the stands.  

My local league punched their ticket to Williamsport the other day. I umpired a number of their games this spring. I was surprised how much the age change impacted the talent. While they are smaller and not as powerful, this team is very well coached defensively.

When my son played all stars one opposing team showed up with rocks in plastic bottles and made a racket. It was their way of beating the no cowbell rule. The noise was thunderous.

I’m watching the MA-CT game. The CT fans are as loud with just their mouths. Then there’s thenMA dad calling out how many outs after each play. Gotta love those coaches in the stands.

I've watched a few games.   Mostly just have it on while I do other things around the house.

The reactions of some parents are sometimes outrageous, but it is what it is.  I'd be embarrassed the way some parents are.  Prefer to watch the kids.  I don't need to see Mom and Dad (and siblings) in the stands.

If you think the parents are bad, just wait until they get to Williamsport.  Then some really go nuts.

I know they have had to mix things up due to current events, but the regional tournaments are kind of a joke. The team representing our old district got a bye in their first round, won handily in their second round, and got ten-runned in their third round. Because the second place teams goes to Williamsport (in lieu of the international teams) now all they have to do is win their first and only game in the loser's bracket today to move on to both the regional championship and the LLWS.

@RJM posted:

I still cringe watching pitchers throw a lot of mechanically unsound curves. Nothing wrong with throwing curves if thrown properly. Most kids don’t.

This is why it is called the Curve Ball World Series in my house.   This is a gold mine for orthopedic surgeons.

Honestly, I don't make a point of watching the LLWS anymore.   Maybe when I have grandkids I'll have the desire to sit down with him/her and watch a game.   There are just too many things I'd rather be doing right now including mowing the lawn.   Yes, I know I sound like an old man but it is the truth.

The way ESPN overhypes every part of every broadcast related to the LLWS has reduced the entire event to make believe.

i think i remember, from years past, that they don't show velos at the regionals. i remember wondering why they didn't have them last time, but they were right back on the screen when they got to williamsport. 

Sorry gang... highlighting youth sports, giving hundreds of kids a chance to be on a bigger stage, kids baseball with a decent skill level...  I love it. 

Sports in any form at any level definitely comes arm in arm with plenty of flaws.  I'll take the bad with the good.  Still love it.

It is so much better to come home to watching the tradition and buildup to LLWS than the other crap on TV.  Yes, I'll still always choose doing something active over watching just about anything but if I'm hanging around, I enjoy watching it.  Also, it's a fun baseball alternative to some of the typical MLB games this particular time of year.  That was a pretty darn good Field of Dreams game last night, though!

I wouldn’t sit down to watch a LL all star game on tv. It’s something to put on as background noise worth looking up at while doing something else. There isn’t a plot to follow. When there’s noise, look up. I do the same thing with news.

The coverage promotes playing baseball. Getting kids out of the house and playing any sport is a positive. They don’t have to become stars. Just have social interactions and fun playing.

Maybe the age change will change the game from all strikeouts and home runs. I actually noticed this duo outcome in LL before it hit MLB.

Don’t watch anymore.  Bad baseball mechanics and horrible umpiring.   You don’t even have to come close to strike zone anymore.  

@PitchingFan posted:

Don’t watch anymore.  Bad baseball mechanics and horrible umpiring.   You don’t even have to come close to strike zone anymore.  

The umpires are all volunteers. Some are skilled and also do travel, Legion and school ball. Some are terrible. When districts, sections, states, regions and the LLWS come around assignments aren’t based on merit. They’re based on the good ole boy, who have you sucked up to buddy network.

A terrible LL lifer umpire  from our league did every level from districts to the LLWS. It prepares kids for afternoon high school games where they get 70yo immobile umpires.

Mechanics and umpires aside, there are some pretty good players out there, and the kids are having a ball. I would've killed to play in the LLWS!

I played LL back in the late 70's early 80's, and the 10-12 age grouping was, and still is, ridiculous. Not much fun being barely 10 yrs old facing pitchers who are almost 13. Two of those kids went on to be starting QB's in the Big 10. I was 0 for whatever against Greg and Chuck. Good times, though!

@CubsFanInSTL posted:

Mechanics and umpires aside, there are some pretty good players out there, and the kids are having a ball. I would've killed to play in the LLWS!

I played LL back in the late 70's early 80's, and the 10-12 age grouping was, and still is, ridiculous. Not much fun being barely 10 yrs old facing pitchers who are almost 13. Two of those kids went on to be starting QB's in the Big 10. I was 0 for whatever against Greg and Chuck. Good times, though!

When I played LL if you could make it at nine  you counted as a ten. Teams were supposed to be 5-5-5. If you made it at nine a team could have six in your age group the next three years. This was when players had to make LL. Others played what was called LL Farms.

Four of us made LL at nine. We turned out to be the top four players at age twelve. We didn’t have mandatory playing time. Not that I minded. At nine some of the bigger twelves were freak’n scary to face. Imagine being nine and facing a 5’10” kid with a 70 mph fastball. In eighteen games I think I got about ten plate appearances. No hits. We played pickup baseball all day long. So playing time wasn’t an issue. The 12yo pitcher who scared me the most was called Fuzz. He was tall and threw hard. His nickname came from he was starting to fur up at twelve.

At ten I played about half of each game and wasn’t scared anymore. It’s funny how at nine and ten the twelves looked like adults.

If a true zone was called there'd be a whole lot more walks and who would want to watch that... Get over it, if you don't like it, don't watch and quit yer complaining unless you want to try it yourself .

I’ve only watched one game - NorCal vs SoCal yesterday. Great scoreless pitching duel until the starters were both out due to pitch counts.  I thought the plate ump called a good game, better than many games I’ve seen worked by certain MLB umps.

That’s not to say there have not been very bad LLWS calls as well.

I enjoy seeing the game played by real 12 year olds on the small field. It seems like they are having more fun than years past. I was hoping to take my youngest for a trip to Williamsport but he ended his career at 11. I wished I took the older one but his travel program did not have a gap that allowed it and I regret that now.

@JohnF posted:

If a true zone was called there'd be a whole lot more walks and who would want to watch that... Get over it, if you don't like it, don't watch and quit yer complaining unless you want to try it yourself .

I will assume you are talking to me.  I stated very clearly I did not watch it anymore.  But to your other comment, I have called multiple state tournaments and 2 Southeast Regionals and was invited to LLWS, pre-everything is a strike era.  I got out of it when I showed up my last year at Southeast Regional and they said we needed to open the strike zone up to about 8-10 inches.  I refused to go back and did not open it up that much.  I think you give a ball out/in and up/down but never a foot which is where they are at now.  If you can't play by the rules, then change the rules mindset is part of the problem in youth baseball today.  Make them throw strikes or get somebody on the mound today who can.  ESPN has forced LL to move the strike zone for entertainment purposes.  The level of play across the board is not where it used to be because so many kids are playing travel ball.  LL has a place in youth sports but not on the platform ESPN has given it and to the extent that they are dictating the quality of play.

BTW, I also called D1 college and a stint in Minor League before my boys started playing.  Was invited to go up but turned it down.  My partner did and is still there.  Has had a terrible life off the field but he is still in the show.  So I do know a thing or two about umpiring.

During the regular season calling strikes between the chalk of the batter’s boxes and a couple of inches below the knees is OK. But once all stars starts call the strike zone. The thing is most of the umpires are amateurs.

The pitching limits changes a lot about LL. It requires a lot more pitching. When I played we won districts, states and played divisions (when there were only four regions) with three pitchers. We all went the distance every game.

On the absurd side when my son played was the next to last year without pitching limits. One of his teammates pitched a no hitter in sections on about 160 pitches. He walked nine and hit five. He struck out fifteen. The opposing hitters were terrified. The kid threw about 75 with no idea where it was going. My son caught. He was black and blue up and down his arms the next day. He could barely lift his arms.

Yes, that pitcher’s arm was shot by eighth grade. Plus he was one of those kids who would walk the bases full then blame a fielder for an error or the catcher for not blocking a pitch that hit two feet in front of the plate or went over his head.

@PitchingFan posted:

The level of play across the board is not where it used to be because so many kids are playing travel ball.

My personal knowledge from a couple of years ago (when my son was 12) was that travel players who happen to live in a strong little league area play little league at 12u.  Most of these kids have never played little league before, and probably played travel since they were 6u or 7u.  At 12u, they play the min required of innings during regular season as they are actively playing travel, just enough to qualify for all stars and post season.  They treat little league post season like another of the travel tournaments (and fit in playing in USAAA or Perfect Game tournaments in between little league post season tournaments).  All of this is done with the cooperation of the local little league officials.  I know all of these bec my son either is teammates or played against all the kids that represented the Southeast region in his travel team.

I assume this is still how it works in most places right now.

@PitchingFan - sorry if you took offense. It was not directed at you - it was more of a general comment based on years of reading about the LLWS umpiring capabilities. Other readers / watchers need to understand it's a show and you are directed to do some things you don't agree with. The killer part about ESPN is their announcers essentially fuel the fire of suspect umpire strike zones... FWIW, I can say the same of my Dreams Park experiences regarding how you're encouraged to be generous. You also cannot "call" a game for lightning - I had *both* coaches complaining one night and I had to let them know (quietly of course) it's up to the game mgmt for the quad you're in and you have no control.

@JohnF posted:

FWIW, I can say the same of my Dreams Park experiences regarding how you're encouraged to be generous. You also cannot "call" a game for lightning - I had *both* coaches complaining one night and I had to let them know (quietly of course) it's up to the game mgmt for the quad you're in and you have no control.

Reminds me of our Cooperstown Dreams Park experience.  We got all the way to the semifinal game of our week, and had to play our game at midnight in thick fog.  Everyone in the infield just ducks everytime someone hits a line drive.  The umpire has a hard time figuring out if a fly ball went over the fence or not.  The outfielders have to help him make the call.  The championship game was played at 2:30 am.  I didn't complain that we lost the semifinal game as we have to leave our rental at 8 am to travel the 1 hr 45 min to the closest airport.

@atlnon posted:

My personal knowledge from a couple of years ago (when my son was 12) was that travel players who happen to live in a strong little league area play little league at 12u.  Most of these kids have never played little league before, and probably played travel since they were 6u or 7u.  At 12u, they play the min required of innings during regular season as they are actively playing travel, just enough to qualify for all stars and post season.  They treat little league post season like another of the travel tournaments (and fit in playing in USAAA or Perfect Game tournaments in between little league post season tournaments).  All of this is done with the cooperation of the local little league officials.  I know all of these bec my son either is teammates or played against all the kids that represented the Southeast region in his travel team.

I assume this is still how it works in most places right now.

Some leagues do this, others don’t. My son’s league was always competitive and routinely in the state tournament. Other leagues in our district are the same. The district to the south is how you described. Some years they don’t even charter a single team because their all star group is weak. One year they double dipped and tried counting their travel games as LL games and got caught. There are a handful of leagues around FL that are almost always in the state tournament. Same goes for VA, TN, & GA.

When my son was ten we went to watch states, regions and LLWS. I noticed there was a trend certain leagues seemed to make these levels more often than seemed possible. I chatted with as many coaches as possible. The successful programs weren’t waiting until mid June to select their teams and start practicing (LL rules).

There are ways to get around the rules. We created travel teams that played in USSSA Sunday DH leagues concurrently with the LL season. The travel team was fifteen of the eleven or twelve most likely to make all stars (avoided appearance of selecting team before 6/15).

All star players are typically all p,c, ss, cf. I coached the travel team. The kids spent the spring travel season playing and learning how to play their likely all star position. The team made states both years my son played.

I know of one LL where a dad was a psychologist. He spent three years programming the kids to believe they would make Williamsport.

They made it. But I believe it was talent not the psychologist. Nine of their eleven players went on to play college baseball. One kid could have played college ball. He chose to play college basketball. The stud pitcher on the team wasn’t good enough to make high school varsity. He was a physical early bloomer who stopped growing.

I just heard a rational answer on when to start throwing a curve. The analyst, a former MLBer said you can’t just say no because if age. You have to look at the player’s physical size not his age. You have to look at the size of his hands. Can he grip the ball properly? Can his coach recognize fatigue and failing mechanics? The safe thing is don’t throw a curve. But it’s not necessarily the right answer.

I taught my son to throw a knuckle curve in LL. It was nasty. It was all grip. Parents used to whisper I was wrecking my sons arm and he would never pitch by high school. He was cruising 87/88 and maxing 90 in high school.

I also taught my son how to throw a curve as a preteen. I wanted to show him how to throw it properly rather than try to figure it out and learn to throw it wrong. I advised him he didn’t need it in games. He learned the hard way hanging a curve to a girl and having it hit off the fence. He could have smoked her with fastballs. The knuckle curve and a straight change were enough for the few hitters he couldn’t just smoke.

@RJM posted:

I just heard a rational answer on when to start throwing a curve. The analyst, a former MLBer said you can’t just say no because if age. You have to look at the player’s physical size not his age. You have to look at the size of his hands. Can he grip the ball properly? Can his coach recognize fatigue and failing mechanics? The safe thing is don’t throw a curve. But it’s not necessarily the right answer.

What he failed to also mention was that throwing a curveball properly also depends on the pitchers arm slot.

Son never ever threw a curveball, when younger, more of a slurvy ball, because of his high arm slot, right handed, he threw a slider. It's one or the other not both. I just cringe when a dad says my son throws both curve and slider. NO!

So in college the slurve became a true slider.

Kids at this age have inconsistant arm slots.

The Change up is the most underrated pitch in youth baseball, maybe in all of baseball. IMO

@old_school posted:

The Change up is the most underrated pitch in youth baseball, maybe in all of baseball. IMO

I will second that! The change up is the most underrated pitch, and a good change is arguably the most effective pitch, in baseball at every level.

@old_school posted:

The Change up is the most underrated pitch in youth baseball, maybe in all of baseball. IMO

I've been telling my son this for months. His pitching coach changed the grip slightly. When he throws it well and keeps his fingers on top it is practically unhittable.

ESPN hypes it up, it's fun for the kids and I have watched parts of several games over the weekend, but I often chuckle to myself about how our 11U AAA team could whip up on any of these teams. I get the Cooperstown Dream Park parallels, I guess I look at LL baseball as a baseball lite...in that there are no lead-offs, steals or throw-overs and the strike zone is eerily reminiscent of Eric Greggs in that dreadful Braves v Marlins games years ago.

Several years ago a friend of mine got to umpire the LLWS. He was telling me that it was quite a detailed packet/forms/documentation which needed completing. He also told me once you do one LLWS, that's it (no repeats). I don't know if that's still the case.

@Shoveit4Ks posted:

ESPN hypes it up, it's fun for the kids and I have watched parts of several games over the weekend, but I often chuckle to myself about how our 11U AAA team could whip up on any of these teams. I get the Cooperstown Dream Park parallels, I guess I look at LL baseball as a baseball lite...in that there are no lead-offs, steals or throw-overs and the strike zone is eerily reminiscent of Eric Greggs in that dreadful Braves v Marlins games years ago.

You can’t compare putting together a team with geographic boundaries with a team you can pick and chose your players. I challenged the Legion team with my 14u travel team. We had more pitchers throwing 80+. They wouldn’t play us. They had nothing to gain and everything to lose (Legions dwindling reputation).

The original idea behind LL was find the right size field and limit the rules so all boys could learn to play baseball. It was a great idea. 82 years later and larger kids the field should be a little larger. Getting rid of 13yos was a move in the right direction. LL has a 50/70 with leads division for 12/13yos with leads. The field should probably be 50/70 for everyone.

Most 11/12u travel games are track meets in terms of pitchers ability to hold runners and catchers throwing them out. Limiting base running isn’t the worst idea. I remember my son commenting in his first open bases 11u game, “If the runner is sliding in as I come up to throw I’m guessing I shouldn’t bother.” The few kids I had on my 13u travel team who had never played travel figured out leads in a weekend. They all became high school stars. Only playing LL didn’t hold them back.

Televising so many sectional games has had a negative effect on umpiring. A LL lifer I know told me umpires are told to make sure the games end in a certain time. I don’t have a problem with the strike zone being from batter’s box chalk line to chalk line. But some strike calls are absurd. Since it’s not me at the plate the expressions on the hitter’s faces when these calls are made is priceless.

I would say I’m a defender of LL. My son is 28 now. It’s been a while. But it was a great experience. Especially if the team makes a run past districts. Travel was starting to happen in our area at the time.

I doubt any good player has ever been held back from ultimately becoming a good player by LL’s rules. Hell, I couldn’t hold runners well in high school. I got in trouble freshman year of college about it. The pitching coach commented I must have been stolen blind in high school. I responded, “What runners?”

Playing LL may not create high school stars. But it creates baseball fans.

I've probably watched 10 games over the past week.  I do every year and will watch again this weekend when the LLWS starts up.  My son was a D1 pitcher.  He has always....and still does watch.   We have been to the LLWS twice as fans, once with a friend and his two boys....and the second time with a group of 40+ from our small NW Ohio town.    If you've never been there, you owe it to yourself as a baseball fan to make the trip at least once. 

LLWS announced yesterday that no fans would be allowed this year. Only families of the players.

@Buckeye 2015 posted:

I've probably watched 10 games over the past week.  I do every year and will watch again this weekend when the LLWS starts up.  My son was a D1 pitcher.  He has always....and still does watch.   We have been to the LLWS twice as fans, once with a friend and his two boys....and the second time with a group of 40+ from our small NW Ohio town.    If you've never been there, you owe it to yourself as a baseball fan to make the trip at least once.

We lived close enough to do some day trips. We went two or three times each year when my son was ten, eleven and twelve. At eleven and twelve he wanted to see players he knew from our state/regional champions. It’s Disneyland for baseball. It’s a baseball festival and party.

My son got to know some of the Curaçao players (Jurickson Profar’s team) well enough the team sent him a Curaçao team press package to our house with press guide, baseball cards, team towel, and Curaçao flags. They come prepared because they expect to be there.

Another time my son raced with all the Chandler AZ (West Region champions) players in the LL Museum. There was a laser timed home to first race.

And of course, he slid down the hill on cardboard.

Through a friend in the Phillies front office I arranged to have Bobby Abreau call the Venezuela team.

@RJM posted:

We lived close enough to some day trips. We went two or three times each year when my son was ten, eleven and twelve. At eleven and twelve he wanted to see players he knew from our state/regional champions. It’s Disneyland for baseball. It’s a baseball festival and party.

My son got to know some of the Curaçao players (Jurickson Profar’s team) well enough the team sent him a Curaçao team press package to our house with press guide, baseball cards, team towel, and Curaçao flags. The come prepared because they expect to be there.

Another time my son raced with all the Chandler AZ (West Region champions) players in the LL Museum. There was a laser timed home to first race.

And of course, he slid down the hill on cardboard.

Through a friend in the Phillies front office I arranged to have Bobby Abreau call the Venezuela team.

Our first trip we camped right on the river in Montgomery.  It was fantastic.  We came to the complex on some backroad with no traffic and parked behind a house right next to the fields.  The second trip with the large group we were at a hotel 45 miles away.....not nearly the same, though the kids did have fun as there were probably 10 families with 12-15 boys my son's age.

We enjoy it—parents, umpires and errors all make for a lot of fun! Gavin Weir (LHP) from South Dakota was impressive!  We also applaud the move to the younger players to level the playing field, and actually like the all USA (Covid restricts international travel) format this year where you can trust the birth certificates! Looking forward to seeing the Angels play in the Williamsport game on August 22nd!