Long Distance Running

For the last 3 or 4 years everything I have read from doctors and trainers suggests that long distance running is a waste of time. Sprints are clearly the way to go because they train explosive movements, which is what pitching is all about.
Unfortunately, many coaches are slow to grasp this concept.

JH, great post! I think that most of the things that you say are generally true. You have brought up something that more people (including myself) are starting to believe. It seems that often players, and pitchers in particular, are running "because that's what we've always done".

There is a big difference between cardiovascular endurance and muscular endurance. Explosive power and muscular endurance are of far greater importance to pitchers, and baseball players in general, than cardiovascular endurance.

On and off the field training that includes sprints, HIIT, GPP, SPP, core, plyometric, and major-muscle compound lifts are far more beneficial. That's not to say that some distance running is a bad thing, but I don't think that it should be the focal point that it has in the past.

Perhaps Jon Doyle could provide some input on this. I believe that he has touched on this in the past.

I think you've pretty much nailed it.

Distance running is pretty much only good for the cardiovascular/endurance part of pitching. Sprints, hill work, plyos etc is where pitcher should be spending a lot of his time.

Unfortunately the coach has to have something for these guys to do other than shag balls in the outfield all practice.

Ask yourself why all the MLB great pitchers run LD.
They have the best trainers that money can buy.

It may come as a shock that all pitchers run wind sprints and other types of running to develop stamina and leg strength like crow hops.
It may also come as a shock that LD builds lactic acid but slow jogs flush it.

Bobble- Not a bad observation. I'd like to hear from those players or the trainers, however, to see the reasoning. As I said, I'm not completely denying either method of exercise. I'm just trying to get some different opinions. The expert ones would be awesome.

You already have their opinions. Read Roger Clemens workout. The expert opinions are expressed in the fact that all MLB pitchers run LD . Why do millionaire pro athletes run LD ?

I don't know. That's exactly why I'm asking.

1. Your link is broken. Takes you to Sears financials.

2. I am not an expert in this, but have read a lot about the subject, and put a program together for my son a HS pitcher.

2. You are correct that there is now an understanding of the need to have an explosive work out for baseball players, pitchers included. Jon Doyle has some excellent stuff regarding this. Others have stuff on this also.

3. To be a complete athlete you need to build up stamina to go 9 innings. (or 7) So you need to build up the muscle structure to support the stamina aspect of the sport. Hence some long distance running is appropriate, particularly early in the pre-season. Yes this does produce some slow twitch muscle.

4. So your workouts should include lots of ballistic compound movements. You should be doing squats, lunges, but you should be doing cleans, jerks and other ballistic lifts.

5. Your running as you get closer to the season should tone down the long distance (when I say long distance it is 2-3 miles) and switch to more sprinting work. Sprinting 100x10 2 maybe 3 times per week. You must recover from each sprint however to get the full benefit. You can add in some "overs" go out to 120 yds by 6-8 x's and then some "unders" 10-12 40 yds. Mix and match them, during the week to keep it interesting.

After you pitch then get in a long distance run of 2-3 miles. This will get the blood flowing and help you recover from pitching.

So in summary, yes you need to run long distances, but it needs to be blended with sprints and other ballistic workouts.

BOF- weird...Here you go: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05...nutrition/16run.html


Good points. I'd like to hear other people's as well. Thanks for the responses thus far

JH your article says that " Through trial and error, coaches learned that athletic performance improved when athletes worked on endurance, running longer and longer distances, for example. "
It also refers to short burst running like wind sprints are also necessary.

http://ericcressey.com/a-new-m...etween-starts-part-1

Everything in life is about balance. When you lift weights do you just do upper body or just legs? No you do both. Do you just do bench or do you do other exercises to help out the small muscles as well?

In order to be 100% effective you have to do both sprints and long distance. Now as to me being smart enough to use big words to explain why this is I can't do it. I'm smart enough to know you have to do both but not smart enough to explain it.

I agree with coach2709, you need to be balance.

When im lifting during the offseason (which I am right now) I lift every area (tris, bis, back, chest, shoulders, legs) and when start running again (which should be soon) I will do LD one day and sprints the next.

Another good article on why long distance (alone) is not so good for you. A pitcher should be developing those "fast twitch" muscles during the offseason with sprints, plyometrics, etc.

Just say NO to long distance running

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
Another good article on why long distance (alone) is not so good for you. A pitcher should be developing those "fast twitch" muscles during the offseason with sprints, plyometrics, etc.

Just say NO to long distance running

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't he saying that long distance running slowly is bad but long distance at a higher speed is ok?

If that is true then long distance is fine as long as you do it with a quick pace.

long distance running is actually COUNTERPRODUCTIVE... it can transition the white oxidative (fast twitch fibers) to long red slow fibers.

sprints certainly get the heart rate up helping flush out the lymphatic system i.e. lactic acid and other **** buidling up

interesting question, why are most MLB pitchers found in the dugout watching the game icing instead of going down into the weightroom and running? because when long distance running occurs right after pitching, the ability for the body to use nutrients to rebuild the arm is reduced because the legs require rebuilding

JH,

quote:

“As a college pitcher, I've ran my fair share of miles throughout the season. I've never questioned what Coach has us do, but I'd like to hear some opinions from others about the kinesiology of pitching+long distance running”

There is a long mistaken yardmyth that a Ballistic an-aerobic activity is actually an aerobic threshold activity that should be trained as such, nonsense! It is, a ballistic an –aerobic activity performed maximally (work to rest interval) in fractions of a second then recovered with in 30 seconds of rest between pitches. To reach the lactate producing result takes at least 6 seconds of maximal continuous activity to produce it, pitching not.

quote:

”For as long as I can remember, coaches have always had me run poles”

Poles are great if done correctly for your run training and to help prevent hamstring pulls by changing the timing interval (motor unit contraction and relaxation sequence) during training.
Pitchers and players should train on dirt with bases, on grass using an aggressive field agility program and these “steed ups” poles.
Start at you’re home (actually lines) pole and fast walk 10 steps, jog 10, trot 10, sprint 20, trot 10, jog 10, walk 10 to a stop at the other pole, turn around start it up again going back. Start with 6 (one pole =one way) poles and steadily increase it by two a week starting in September, then maintain at 20 (adults should do more) poles until spring, then cut back to half that workload when competition starts.

quote:

“Pitching stamina “

I think you are making the classical mistake of confusing cumulative injurious effect with the energy it takes to actually pitch, Pitching actually robs you of little capacity, I personally throw between 600 and 1200 (25% maximally) pitches daily plus specifically train to warm up before we start and I am only moderately tired after but then I have a non injurious force application and can pitch as much as fast pitch softball pitchers and I do not run at all! I’m an old **** and it’s just too uncomfortable.
Just think Framers can swing that 24 Oz. hammer for 8 to 12 hr’s a day straight through
1000’s of hammer throws day after day but then again it’s somewhat (discounting the other thumb) non-injurious.

quote:

“comes from leg strength”

In the traditional pitching motion the legs are driving forward with groin muscles (not the powerful anterior and posterior leg muscles), then slamming that small energy to a stop with the front leg and it’s muscles before the ball actually starts forward movement! The legs are not used well at all during their postural add but all the back bending recovery from the anchored back leg then it’s recovery does take a little energy even in their non ballistic movement.

quote:

“core stability”

Yes, did you notice how many oblique injuries there were in the MLB this year because they have to report them, imagine all the rest?

quote:

“mechanical effort”

I believe this is an oxy-moron but I may be wrong?

quote:

“Wouldn't sprint work”

Yep! Just leave the message

quote:

“plyometrics”

Danger! Danger! Will Robinson.

quote:

“running long-distances that exercise fairly meaningless muscles to the game?”

It’s pretty much the same muscles, just used in a different energy feeding way.

Traditional mechanic pitchers would benefit greater if they used a running side heel clicked action if they are going to use running as exercise to train leg movement to match what they actually do when they pitch.
Forward faced legs to throw only happen off the mound.

Bobbleheaddoll,

quote:

“They have the best trainers that money can buy”

These trainers are actually best at collecting from them, not training them, the steroid era can be directly linked to many of them.General training is not the answer and never will be.

quote:

“The expert opinions are expressed in the fact that all MLB pitchers run LD”

This shows how expert they actually are, these are the same experts who teach all of us that squats and Olynpic lifts are benefitial to pitchers when they are the least specific movements for this mechanic when training.

*The distance a pitcher should run is inversely proportional to his pitching velocity. I have worked out a formula for the distance a developing young pitcher should run. ---

"D"=(B-V) X 0.5

"D"= Distance a pitcher should run.
"B"= A benchmark velocity of 90mph for a 17 year old with that benchmark decreasing by 4mph for every year under 17.
"V"= His current velocity.
0.5= Multiplier.

Examples:
1. 14 year old throws 75
To determine "D":
A. Subtract his current age from 17 or (17-14)=3
B. Multiply that by 4 or 3X4=12
C. Subtract that from 90 or 90-12=78.
D. So 78 is the target number for a 14 year old and our pitcher is 3 mph slower than the target or
E. Now lets multiply the deficit of 3mph by 0.5 and we come up with a distance of 1.5 miles.

If a 17yo is throwing 90 (or close to) he should be playing ball and pitching. If a 17yo is throwing 80 he needs to find a residential area or a park and be a distance runner.

*All baseball players should run especially pitchers (even those with velocities that match or exceed their target! The above formula has no scientific value whatsoever and is intended as humor only.

Greg Maddux '08- 42 years old.

D= ?
B= 90+(4*(42-17))
90+(4*25)
90+100
B= 190
V= 83

D= (B-V) X 0.5
D= (190-83) X 0.5
D= 107 X .05
D= 53.5

Therefore, Fungo, Greg Maddux ran 53.5 miles per day in 2008.