Longest Game in NCAA History

Less than 11 hours later, BC will take the field against the Army Black Knights, in a, win or go home scenario for both teams.

I watched the whole game...half from the stands, half back at my hotel (Jr. is starting today vs. BC and he had an 11 pm curfew). Aside from the topic of arm abuse....Austin Wood was amazing. He was the essence of gut and glory and his performance was nothing short of remarkable. On one hand I think coach Auggie Garrido should be arrested, and on the other, I think they should erect a monument to Austin Woods performance.

GO ARMY!

CP,
I agree with you.
This was not an elimination game for either one of them, or the game to get to Omaha. There's a whole lot of baseball left to play. A gutsy performance, hats off to Wood. And congrats to BC, you make the ACC proud.

Perhaps being a pitchers parent, I see it differently. Kudos to the BC pitching coach for using his BP the way it should be used.

A well rested Army has a huge advantage. Best of luck to your son's team.

Think about what can be in a coaches mind in a situation like this, and mind you I am not condoning the actions, but it happens

The kid has gone so many innings that he is burned for the weekend and he is also pitching lights out and the coach decides to ride it out especially since there were load of "easy" innings as well aas the kid telling coach "you are not taking me out ! "

It is not easy to be in the coaches shoes in a game like this as they are also thinking about what they need for pitching after this game.


And yes it has a lot to do with OMAHA---If you don't get out of the first regional there is no OMAHA

Decisions have to be made and in a tournament like this the innings pitched get jacked up

I think Army could win this regional based on what has transpired.

Kirk Porter - CPLZ's son is pitching the first game today against Boston College. Go Army!

GO BC---gotta root for them because of what transpired last nite

I applaud BC for a strong performance in a remarkable game last night, but...

GO ARMY!!! Best wishes to Kirk for a great game on the mound and the WIN!



Julie

I understand the challenges faced on the road to Omaha and I agree that sometimes a coach needs to make decisions that most likely are not looked upon as favorable. And yes I agree, no way do competitive pitchers like to be taken out of the game when pitching the game of their lives.

It's not only the pitcher, he doesn't have to make another appearance (hopefully), but the other players do, and fatigue plays a huge part in this game. The adrenal only lasts for so long. So does the arm.

According to the local radio broadcast here in Phoenix and the published box score, Mark Serrano of Oral Roberts was at 158 when he was lifted in the 9th. Pitched a great game, 8 H, 4 R, 3 ER, 5 BB, 13 K's in 8 1/3.

169 over 13 innings is 13 an inning, shows he was in command the whole way. 158 over 8 1/3 is 19 an inning, he had a couple of high pressure innings where he got into the 30's. I almost think this is worse...

Just took Texas off the list of schools for my son to look into.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Think about what can be in a coaches mind in a situation like this, and mind you I am not condoning the actions, but it happens

The kid has gone so many innings that he is burned for the weekend and he is also pitching lights out and the coach decides to ride it out especially since there were load of "easy" innings as well aas the kid telling coach "you are not taking me out ! "

It is not easy to be in the coaches shoes in a game like this as they are also thinking about what they need for pitching after this game.


And yes it has a lot to do with OMAHA---If you don't get out of the first regional there is no OMAHA

Decisions have to be made and in a tournament like this the innings pitched get jacked up

I agree that there is a point where you lose a kid for the series, so you let him go more than if you were saving him for tomorrow. But isn't there another threshhold that you need to consider? Aside from the potential for permanent damage to the kid's arm, what if they win the regional? Don't they want him for the rest of the CWS? I think they have probably used him up (or at least used up his effectiveness).

I just hope he comes out of this without a serious injury.

sdmama-from following Texas's baseball program over the past few years I have noticed that most of their recruits come from Texas (the current roster has 31 of 34 from Texas). They can pretty much cherry pick the best talent from the state of Texas (like California it has lots of good players) so I have not noticed them going outside of the state very much. However, the 3 players on their current roster who do not come from Texas are from California, one straight from HS and the other 2 transfers from other California D1s.

Mike

As noted above the young man threw an average of 13 pitches with very few if any stressful innings---he did not struggle and like I said once he passed the turning point he was burned for the weekend---and every kid is different ---Coach knows him better than we do

We had a situation like this in the 5A-I semi-finals. Other team brought in a pitcher in the 4th inning and he threw about 70 to finish the game against us.

After an hour long break, they brought him back to start the 'if necessary' game. He was lights out, low pitch's per inning, lots of K's, dominating. Ended up throwing all 7 in the second game.

The results were, 11 shut out innings, 172 pitches. If you look at those numbers, you think abuse. I was there and if I was coaching that team, I don't know if I could've taken him out. How do you take a pitcher who is dominating out of a game?

After the game, you look at the numbers and think child abuse, but none of the signs of fatigue or struggle were there. Days like that are why I leave coaching to the pros.

Major leaguers have lower upper limits, but they throw every 5 days for a six month season, not including 6 weeks of spring training and playoffs. They're in a marathon. In these 'lose and go home' weekends, the rules are different. They can take two weeks off after they lose. They don't have to come back and throw seven innings on Thursday. That kid will probably (go Army) only have to close next weekend.

I think the Oral Roberts situation was worse. Serrano was struggling and had clearly lost if for about an inning before they went out and got him.

Sounds like they told the Texas kid, "first baserunner and you're done" and he threw 10 more innings.

I'm not saying I approve of this kind of thing, I'm just saying there is more to this than simply looking at a three digit number.

There has been some good points made, don't like the high pitch count, but as stated earlier, post season is a whole lot different than regular season games.
This is stuff you used to see years ago, but I have seen big changes in less pitcher abuse and most coaches seem to really manage their pitchers well.

Looking at the pitcher, previously he has only logged a bit over 60 innings and as a closer his work load was probably not as heavy as a starter, and he most probably was throwing a lot of off speed to keep hitters off balance, which doesn't tire you out as much as blazing FB.
The player is a senior, most likely will get drafted and if problems arise, he doesn't have to deal with it.
Lots of factors to consider, the biggest one is that he threw the evening before but most likely as the closer he was conditioned to do that.

Kbat, Here is a discussion about 13 innings in a game that occured 50 years ago.

Not saying the coach was wise to allow 169 pitches, just saying 50 years ago in ... a Major League game... Interesting timing I think.

Get your bashing bats out because I think a bunch of you aren't going to like me here in a few minutes.

I don't advocate overusing a pitcher but some of you need to get off your high horses about what this MAN did on the mound. Some of you keep calling him a kid but he is a legal and responsible adult. He knew what he was doing and I'm sure if he had any trouble he would have said something to the coaches and / or trainers.

It's not like everytime he took the mound he threw 169 pitches. This is a man (again a man and not a kid) who has been conditioning all year, throwing regularly under some of the best supervision in the nation, has access to great medical help and all kinds of other stuff.

Some of you are saying how wrong this is but probably couldn't pick this kid out if I posted his picture on here with three others. You are criticizing this coach - who has probably forgotten more than you and I will ever know - who has been with this MAN for the past several years.

Bashing coaches who overthrow high school kids is the popular thing to do and rightfully so but this isn't the case. This is an extremely knowledgable coach in charge of MEN who works with them closely and prepares them in the right way. Yet armchair quarterbacks are saying how wrong this is.

If this man on the mound was struggling or if he had lost velocity or whatever he would have been pulled immediately because the team wants to win - not burn innings.

It's amazing what the body can do when you prepare for it. Don't give me the whole "all it takes is that one time to cause injury" stuff because all it takes is crossing the street one time to get hit by a car. When you wake up in the morning you are taking a chance that you might get hurt in some of the weirdest ways imaginable.

Ok I'm done and probably won't reply to anyone because I realize how futile it would be.

Ready.....Set......BASH AWAY!!!!

I am not going to bash, I do agree, I am assuming that the coach would have pulled him if he had struggled.
Last night Clemson coach Jack Leggett pulled out the pitcher, after 132 pitches, one out before a complete game. It was obvious, in the last at bat, he was losing his mechanics, fatigue had set in. I was kind of surprised, I think that is the most I have seen a pitcher throw at Clemson, that's not what normally goes on, maybe another coach would have left him in to struggle to finish the game, and that is when the damage can take over. The pitcher looked really ****ed off, but that's too bad.
I agree, this time of year, pitchers are in better shape than in the early part of the season, they are somewhat, expected to go further than they did in early season. And you are right, this is a man, not a LL or HS player.

So the other night (saturday) Andrew Oliver pitched and now there is talk about him coming back today. This is what happens, it's post season.

.

I'm not going to bash either. I'm just going to pick these two pieces of low hanging fruit...I've shined them up by making them bold.


First you state:

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
I don't advocate overusing a pitcher but some of you need to get off your high horses about what this MAN did on the mound.

Then you state:

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Some of you are saying how wrong this is but probably couldn't pick this kid out if I posted his picture on here with three others.

Which is he...MAN or kid?

Good catch Woody and it was just a slip on my part. He's a man. It does bring up another point (and I was thinking of this when I typed my first post) but everyone (myself included) call HS athletes young men but also call college athletes kids. I guess in the grand scheme of things it's not that big of a deal but it also might explain why everyone gets up in arms for college athletes.

Kbat - you can blow out your elbow on the first pitch of the game or warmups. If it's going to go it's going to go. Only way to stop it is not to pitch.

quote:

It doesn't matter how your body feel at that moment, you just need one small twist to tear it for that high speed motion. I would sweat my pants if I were Austin's parents sitting in the stands.

I think both sides of this argument make valid points and there is no way to be 100% sure. If I were Austin's parent, I would be thrilled he was pitching and would trust he would let the coach know if his arm was ok. Pitching is a high risk activity. For some kids, 80 pitches is probably too much. The 100 pitch count rule is an arbitrary number. For some it is too high. For others, it may be too low

Probably the most amazing thing was that Austin Wood has been the closer (15 saves) for Texas this year. He has 0 starts, and pitched about 60 innings all year before this tournament. Not sure I would call that being conditioned to throw 13 innings in one game or 15 innings in two days.

One thing that helped him was the quick innings (neither team was hitting much). Then the 13 pitch average helped, too. My guess is that adrenalin provided the most help. And that can be dangerous!

There’s no question about Augie’s coaching record. And it took guts to do what he did. Time will tell how this all turns out. Especially with Nolan Ryan’s recent viewpoint.

No matter what… That was an unbelievable performance.

What’s kind of odd is how people seem to justify this one vs. some other similar high pitch count situations that would cause people to go bonkers! We have seen threads before where people think a coach should be hung for doing less.

Maybe some day we will figure all this stuff out.

Every pitch you throw creates some type of damage, that's how it is.

And that is why you make rules for YOUNG pitchers, so that they can remain healthy for when it REALLY COUNTS.

Read the Peter King interview with the kid on SI.com

The kid refused to come out of the game and he had no stressful innings---this is college baseball tournament-- yea 169 piches is a lot but the conditions were great---warm and sweaty-- adrenaline flowing---and no stressful innings to speak of

What concerns me more that he was drinking so many fluids he ended up vomiting---

PG,
You do make good points, you cannot justify high pitch counts, but they happen. If they happen all the time, that's bad news. Quick short innings did help, I doubt he would have been in that long if they were not. Then we wouldn't be talking about it. He may have refused to come out, but if the coach said you're out, you are out. No pitcher wants to come out of a game like that.

BTW, I heard that Nolan Ryan now is stating 6 2/3 innings max for pitchers.

Does anyone think a pitch count limit should be inposed, or now they are talking a run rule? 37-6 is a way bit out of control.

quote:

37-6 is a way bit out of control.

Once a team stops competing on the field, and I'd like to hear from anyone who thinks OSU was competitive yesterday, the mercy rule should be invoked. It appears from the box that FSU emptied the bench and may have even let up a bit, but asking guys to make outs intentionally is probably asking too much. As evidenced by the events of this past weekend, just about anything can happen in the college game. Yet the odds of anyone overcoming a double digit plus lead in baseball are, well.... insurmountable. Mercy!

The problem with a mercy rule is it makes it a definate that a comeback will never happen but 37 - 6 there is no amount of luck or rally hats to overcome that. With college athletes and metal bats I think a 10 run lead can be overcome. Same situation I think 15 after 7 innings is pretty safe and could be a good mercy rule line.

But here is my question - do you really want to create a mercy rule just because one game got out of hand? How many times will Ohio State (or any team for that matter) get destroyed like that during a 5 year span? This game was a fluke even if FSU was head and shoulders better than OSU.

I think FSU did everything they could to limit what happened but sometimes (and it's VERY rare) you can't do anything but take it.

Let me toss out something else than can be controversial about limits.

When do we start to limit how many innings / pitches / games / whatever for catchers? I was a catcher and now that I'm older my knees kill me. I can tell you when it's going to rain and even helps keep my weight high because it hurts to work out now (granted there are other things I can do but my knees do keep me from working out a lot).

So if we are going to raise cane over high pitch counts (which in most cases is justified - please don't ever assume I'm for them) when are we going to start worrying about the health of catcher's knees?

This was a big discussion on the regional I was watching.
MM likes up run up the score, but I see he did clear his bench. Clearing teh bench doesn't help, because most of the players you have are your best.

Just wondering, could he have given up his inning, I have seen that done in regular season. Going into the 8th, of a long weekend, can't see how a team could possibly catch up. They had already taken a beating against Georgia a few days before. If anything to save embarrassment?

I have no idea what Guarrido's reputation relative to pitcher abuse is, but there are some college coaches who have a reputation for overusing pitchers to get wins and keep their jobs.

This is a really mixed one. 169 pitches is too many, especially for a reliever, but when a pitcher is cruising it is easy to leave him in for just one more inning and just one more...

In other words, I don't agree with what was done, but I can understand how it could happen.

quote:

Originally posted by kbat2012:
TPM, I really think that coach wants to run up the score, try to make a record or something that could provide the publicity for their school. Look at those media network like ESPN etc, they are all over this story.

If the coach really wants to end this quick, he can easily do it by asking his player on base to do a lazy stealing, make a out by "caught in stealing". Clear the bench only get things worse, because those bench players are eger to prove their ability of playing, they will play as hard as they can since that's the only chance they can have some playing time.

Did you see the highlights? OSU couldn't catch linedrives, couldn't make throws from 2B to 1B and the pitchers threw BP. There was nothing FSU could do to stop it IMO.

Mike Martin wasn't and doesn't need to make a name for himself. He's coached over 30 years. He's fast approaching 1600 wins (which would make him the third coach to do so). Plus if you look at FSU's schedule and outcome there were only 2 other blowouts similar to this - beat Hofstra 21 - 7 (other two games were close) & Maryland 21 - 5.

Personally I like 10 after 7. Some conferences already have that rule in place. There's a point in a game where a team that's down big has to put up or shut up. Realistically, that point has to come before the 8th inning. The odds of a double digit comeback in two innings or less are slim at best.

Regarding etiquette for the team that's up big, you don't want to risk mockery or misinterpretation by forcing things you wouldn't ordinarily do, like intentionally running into outs. There's a way to do that discreetly in fastpitch, but for the life of me I can't think of good way to get it done in baseball. I can certainly see your point kbat, but if you're running with a double digit lead (even lazily) you're putting both baserunners and hitters at risk for retaliation.

Personally, I think everyone thought this would be a Georgia/FSU matchup for the championship. FSU is known for having more emphasis on hitting than pitching. Those guys can hit anything and everything given to them.

As far as running up the score, I think the weekend just caught up with them.

Again, he could have given up his inning or innings. So not too sure if he felt bad about the whole thing.

You make a mockery of the game and your opponent when you stop competing. Trying to get thrown out , hitting left handed when your a right handed hitter etc etc would be the last thing you would want to do to a team in Ohio States situation. They did empty the bench and those guys should continue to compete. You dont steal , you dont bunt and thats about it. Sometimes things just happen and its unfortunate. But to stop competing and to make a mockery of the game only rubs it in even more.

No one wants to see this happen to anyone. You can bet the FSU players felt bad for the OSU players when it was all said and done. But during the game you compete , thats what players do. These type of situations are very rare but they happen from time to time. Its unfortunate but it is what it is.

quote:

But here is my question - do you really want to create a mercy rule just because one game got out of hand? How many times will Ohio State (or any team for that matter) get destroyed like that during a 5 year span? This game was a fluke even if FSU was head and shoulders better than OSU.

Well coach, OSU did get beat pretty bad TWICE in the same weekend. 24-8 isn't exactly close and then 37-6..

Touche but I still don't think we need to make a game altering decision based on two games.

.

When life hands you Seminoles - make way!

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
Less than 11 hours later, BC will take the field against the Army Black Knights, in a, win or go home scenario for both teams.

I watched the whole game...half from the stands, half back at my hotel (Jr. is starting today vs. BC and he had an 11 pm curfew). Aside from the topic of arm abuse....Austin Wood was amazing. He was the essence of gut and glory and his performance was nothing short of remarkable. On one hand I think coach Auggie Garrido should be arrested, and on the other, I think they should erect a monument to Austin Woods performance.

GO ARMY!

After sitting in the sun a few hours earlier in the day, watching mine and Chip's sons, I decided to unload my tickets...acquiring enough to partake in some fine Texas quail for dinner that evening. I now regret that move, as I could have rested, showered, eaten and still gone to see at least a game and a half of the record "game".

The thought did cross my mind about how long Augie would have let Wood go if he had been a sophomore instead of a departing senior...hmmm...