Looking for chart with catcher info

I am not aware of a chart that summarizes what you are looking for, but there's a lot of data out there.  PG ranks players of every age and position and they publish results of the top performers at their showcases.  You may have to pay money to get access to this, I can't recall.  It's been a couple years since I looked this up, but they have velo and other stats by position.  You can look at pop times and velo for catchers within each age group.  The data is just data, and there are problems using this data...

First, catching is probably the easiest position to "cheat" in the showcase tests.  Most of the kids learn that in order to achieve a good pop time, it helps to start rising and stepping forward while the pitch is on the way.  The testers help by throwing pitches shoulder high. It's gotten so bad that many kids are literally stepping across home plate as they catch the ball and have a running start.  This obviously gives a much better pop time and velocity and is pretty meaningless.  Look at the videos and you'll see what I mean.  So how do you use this data to evaluate anything and make a meaningful comparison?  I don't think you can.

Second, kids mature at different rates.  Some of the best 12U kids my son played with were out of baseball by 16.  Some of the best HS players aren't playing in college.  Some of the late bloomers who didn't light up PG or USA Baseball in younger years are doing very well in college ball.  As they say, it doesn't matter where you start, but where you finish.

My advice is to keep working on achieving a legitimate sub 2.0 pop time with a batter in the box.  Work on quickness to get a <0.70 catch-and-release time.  Use video with timestamp so you can break things down, not stop watch.  Put in the work to develop arm strength (squats, deadlifts, long-toss, etc).  Be athletic, physical, develop blocking and receiving skills.  Be able to smoothly field bunts, dropped 3rd strikes and pop-ups.  Hit, hit, hit.  Once he does these things and achieves sub-2.0 with accuracy and can show he can throw runners out he'll get noticed.  

@Smitty28 wrote, “ it’s gotten so bad that kids are literally stepping across home plate as they catch the ball and have a running start. Look at the videos and you’ll see what I mean. So how do you use this data to evaluate and make a meaningful comparison? I don’t think you can.”

Bingo! Same is true for EV readings that are generated from Happy Gilmore swings, and 60 times that are artificially low due to kids jumping the start. None of this is speculation. I see it at every showcase - and it renders the data useless. The focus on measurables is a scam that’s being orchestrated by all the scouting services to entice parents into paying for their sons to attend expensive showcase events - under the premise that rankings are necessary in order to be recruited. And that’s a false premise. The rankings aren’t necessary and neither is the expense of obtaining them. 

@Smitty28 posted:

PG ranks players of every age and position ...  they have velo and other stats by position.  

Do you know if they measure general throwing velo?  Or do they actually measure velo for catchers coming out of a squat on a throw to 2nd base?

And thank you so much for your reply.  It definitely seems like you've had some experience in this area.  I can definitely see what you mean about maturing at different ages (I would love to find some stories to better illustrate this point)

Question - When you say "Use video with timestamp so you can break things down, not stop watch"  what tool do you use?   Just regular iphone video?  Or do you have a better recommendation?

Thanks!

@playhard314 The C velo you see in in PG stats is from the crouch. Also, it doesn’t necessarily correlate with the pop time listed. They will take the best velo, often regardless of whether the ball ends up in the glove or somewhere in center field.

As for timing, Coach’s Eye is the app we use. Import the video into the app, then you can timestamp glove to glove. Also helps with transfer time. I’ve attached an example from a game. Recorded on GoPro, imported to phone, add time stamp. 

@playhard314 posted:

Do you know if they measure general throwing velo?  Or do they actually measure velo for catchers coming out of a squat on a throw to 2nd base?

And thank you so much for your reply.  It definitely seems like you've had some experience in this area.  I can definitely see what you mean about maturing at different ages (I would love to find some stories to better illustrate this point)

Question - When you say "Use video with timestamp so you can break things down, not stop watch"  what tool do you use?   Just regular iphone video?  Or do you have a better recommendation?

Thanks!

Yes, they measure velo for catchers coming out of the squat on a throw down to 2nd base, with the caveat stated above that they've got a bit of a running start (i.e., not representative of what a catcher can really do in game action).

I used my iPhone to capture the video and then imported it into Coaches Eye, which is a free app that applies timestamps to each frame.  The resolution at 60 frames per second is 0.016, so plenty accurate for this use case.

You didn't say how old your son is, but I'm guessing he's young.  I'd caution you to take it easy on metrics and comparisons.  Older kids can understand the importance of getting bigger, stronger, faster, setting goals and putting in the work to get there, but younger kids who get caught up in this forget how to have fun and can lose interest in the game... I've seen this more times than I care to remember.

@Senna posted:

As for timing, Coach’s Eye is the app we use. Import the video into the app, then you can timestamp glove to glove. Also helps with transfer time. I’ve attached an example from a game. Recorded on GoPro, imported to phone, add time stamp. 

Thanks for the video!  Is the catcher your son?  He looks great!  

@Smitty28 posted:

 I'd caution you to take it easy on metrics and comparisons.  Older kids can understand the importance of getting bigger, stronger, faster, setting goals and putting in the work to get there, but younger kids who get caught up in this forget how to have fun and can lose interest in the game... I've seen this more times than I care to remember.

What age would you say is a good time to start paying more attention to your "measurables"?    Going into high school?  Or maybe when starting to think about college?

@playhard314 posted:

What age would you say is a good time to start paying more attention to your "measurables"?    Going into high school?  Or maybe when starting to think about college?

 

I wouldn't worry about it until he's on the big field and well into puberty with man-muscles.  Every kid is different.

@adbono posted:

@Smitty28 wrote, “ it’s gotten so bad that kids are literally stepping across home plate as they catch the ball and have a running start. Look at the videos and you’ll see what I mean. So how do you use this data to evaluate and make a meaningful comparison? I don’t think you can.”

Bingo! Same is true for EV readings that are generated from Happy Gilmore swings, and 60 times that are artificially low due to kids jumping the start. None of this is speculation. I see it at every showcase - and it renders the data useless. The focus on measurables is a scam that’s being orchestrated by all the scouting services to entice parents into paying for their sons to attend expensive showcase events - under the premise that rankings are necessary in order to be recruited. And that’s a false premise. The rankings aren’t necessary and neither is the expense of obtaining them. 

How are you cheating the start with electronic timing?

I don’t know how old your son is but I would argue for keeping it as fun for as long as possible. Focus on good technique to prevent injuries, playing multiple positions and playing multiple sports. That will keep him athletic, valuable to his teams, and eager to get back to baseball ( if that is his love!). I was just looking at a Fall 15U picture of my son’s team and so much has changed with those kids even in the past 2 and half years in terms of growth, development and trajectory. 

@Dominik85 posted:

How are you cheating the start with electronic timing?

Can’t cheat the start on electronic times. 

@PTWood posted:

I don’t know how old your son is but I would argue for keeping it as fun for as long as possible. Focus on good technique to prevent injuries, playing multiple positions and playing multiple sports. That will keep him athletic, valuable to his teams, and eager to get back to baseball ( if that is his love!). I was just looking at a Fall 15U picture of my son’s team and so much has changed with those kids even in the past 2 and half years in terms of growth, development and trajectory. 

You just made a perfect argument for why you should wait until age  17 to commit. 

@playhard314 posted:

Thanks for the video!  Is the catcher your son?  He looks great!  

Yup, that’s Sennason. And thanks for the kind words. 

BTW, his is probably a good example of focusing on technique, ignoring the raw numbers at showcases, and letting the body catch up as his matures. He’s never been gunned accurately higher than 73 from the crouch in showcases. And he’s never had a pop at a showcases lower than 2. But in game, he’s regularly under 2 and gets guys out. We hope that ultimately that will be what matters. 

We were at a showcase in June and the timer told the dad what the kid’s time was and asked the dad if it was accurate! The dad said he’s usually .2 faster so that’s what they recorded. At that moment I stopped paying attention to showcase numbers. We were at another last weekend and a kid was doing the old jump out and throw pop. My son was .1 slower than him but I heard a coach say my son’s was more like a live game pop. 

One of the biggest areas my son has improved is getting the back foot down and the release time. He was so focused on arm strength we didn’t realize the feet was where he would throw out runners in HS.