Manny being Manny

a few career numbers...

BA = .313
Hrs= 510
RBI= 1672

2 world series rings in the last 4 seasons.

The guy can flat out hit and obviously he has never hurt his team in any way. If anything he is able to keep guys lose and provide a great example to young guys through his intense work ethic.

For the most part his teammates love him. HE rakes and rakes and rakes. He does keep the clubhouse loose and by the way, so much of his circus act is propagated by that 4 ring circus called the Boston media.

Think about this; Manny's story about not being happy and management and him argueing came after the Celtics won the championship and before the Patriots reported to camp (real slow time in the news). The Boston media creates more Red Sox news than they report on, they always have and always will.

Yeah standing in the box watching balls hit off the fence 'cause he thought it was a homer (and was busy celebrating with his fists in the air) and winding up on first is a great example for younger players. The guy is a great hitter but a terrible example for young ball players IMHO. I guess several posters think that if you've got the numbers, then you're a great example for kids. There's more to it.

quote:

Originally posted by soxnole:
… Apologists for his brutal defensive play and his me me me attitude...plese speak up....if you can still defend him.

Brutal defensive play?

Teddy Ballgame played defense in 2,152 games and had an FP of .974.

Manram played in 1,673 games defensively with an FP of .978.

Who’s defense was more brutal? And how many articles, books, stories, etc., would you guess there are about Ted's selfishness, true or not?

quote:

Originally posted by baseballregie:
I guess several posters think that if you've got the numbers, then you're a great example for kids. There's more to it.

Read my post and you'll discover that I said he provides a great example to the younger players on his team because of his great workethic. He comes early everyday to workout and take early BP by himself before anyone else is even at the ballpark.

When your best player is your hardest worker your team is usually succesful.

quote:

I guess several posters think that if you've got the numbers, then you're a great example for kids. There's more to it.

You better believe there is. It is a business. Period. Manny made his comments about being traded and the Boston press seized on it and made more out of it than they should. This is about Manny wanting the Sox to pick up his option now. It is business. This is the way business is done in baseball. You use the leverage when you've got it. Cause when you are going down hill the team will not be there for you. Believe that.

He has the numbers. I would venture to say there is no wording in the contract that says you have to be a role model for children so that people will love you. There are morals clauses. If the team didn't like his lack of hustle (perceived). They have redress by fines or other means. I will give you this about Manny, he loves the game and has fun, even at his age.

One simple question. Are the Red Sox better with him or without him? Who would you put there to replace him? What effect would it have on team chemistry? Who is going to go to their fans and proclaim that they will not have a real chance at the World Series by getting rid of Manny? Well we will get somebody who is a better example for the kids? We will try to win, but if we don't, we have a better example for the kids.

He is paid to rake and that is what he does. Is he great or even good defensively? No. Does his defense hurt his team more than his offense helps it? No way! I own a team, I play to win. Period. It is business. It is not LL, HS, College or rec ball. It is pro ball and Manny is a pro hitter and a below average major league defender. Just the way it is.

Manny is a non-story. He's a media production. He's a bit immature and goes off once in a while. But the guy can play. His teammates and coaches mostly tune out the BS because he can play.

Manny probably won't be back next year not because of his antics but because his production doesn't match up with his salary. However, if the Sox can't get the man they want, Manny will be back. It's not just a matter of Manny's bat. Manny is the bat that protects Ortiz.

The Big Picture:

$40,000 per plate appearance??

Go and give props to the hard working stiffs who save all winter to take their family to ONE baseball game and are asked to spend $4 on a hot dog that cost about 10 cents?

I see all the hubbub as a ploy on Manny's part to get more money like another 5 million when the Red Sox pick up the 20 million option.

He even ran thru a stop sign at third and scored and Francona was the first out of the dugout hig fiving him

Manny is a Hall of Famer, pure and simple

Doesn't Manny ask to be traded every year?

I certainly don't know the Red Sox players or coaches, but as long as he can hit like he does and drive in runs, I bet they love him.

Who are they going to replace him with that is better on the field? No way management lets him go until his productivity goes down.

No Way.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Doesn't Manny ask to be traded every year?

Naw. He took last year off. I believe at that time he said he wanted to finish his career in Boston. Maybe Manny could be a reality show. Ho hum!

What is the alternative with Manny? Have Ortiz play left field? Manny could DH but then they have a problem finding a place for Ortiz. Clearly, they think Manny is better in the field than Ortiz. Youkalis probably could play left field better than Manny but then they seem uncomfortable playing Ortiz at first. If Boston did not have a pure DH, then Manny could do that and everyone would be happy. The only time Ortiz gets to play first is in the World Series. Otherwise they are stuck playing Manny out there.

CD,
I think Manny is a prime reason players are taught from almost day 1 in Milb to control only those things you can control, be professional and do your job. It helps keep you focused when Manny does whatever he does.
If the Sox are truly fed up and try to move him(which I doubt unless they take major financial hit to pay another team), it may well be because they feel this kid in AAA is ready.
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp...b&t=p_pbp&pid=452080
Chris Carter came from the Diamondbacks. He has raked, just raked, at every level of Milb up to and including AAA.
Like Ortiz and Manny, he has issues in the field but he could be a much better option than Ortiz in the field and maybe adequate in left field. His arm is a question.

The Red Sox are as much to blame for the antics of Manny as Manny is himself. They are enablers who believe the product on the field is more important than doing what is right. They wouldn't even suspend him after he after he assaulted an elderly employee.

He's on my team so I love him.

Goofball...yes.

Hairy...yes.

Unbelievable hitter...yes.

I'm no expert but I've never seen a player with better command of the strike zone. If I were an umpire and he didn't swing, I'd feel like the pitch HAD to be a ball.

People only rip on the best.

I'll take Manny any day. He's a much better clutch hitter than Arod will ever be even if Arod's the best player omn the planet.

Manny is a numbskull, is numb to pressure situations and is probably the best pure hitter in this generation.

You guys up in Boston are nuts if you think Sox will win it all without Manny.

I wish the Yankees would get him since they need a power clutch hitting corner outfielder. Xavier Nady deon't exactly strike any fear in pitchers and is no Manny.

Professional athletes are role models, whether they like it or not. To say that kids don't look to him as a professional representative of baseball, is a lie. He is a great talent. No doubt about it. Decent in the field, deadly at the plate. Talents aside, some of his actions on (admiring his long singles), and off (beating up a 65 yr old man) are deplorable. He's immature plain and simple. Coaches just ask yourself, if your best hitter stood at home plate and watched a ball hit the wall, and it resulted in a single....what would you do? I'd tell "Manny" to take a seat.

quote:

Professional athletes are role models, whether they like it or not. To say that kids don't look to him as a professional representative of baseball, is a lie.

Nobody said that pro baseball players were not looked up to. All some of us tried to point out is that he is immature and in the end his antics are allowed because he is a hall of famer and a great hitter. I don't think anybody lied about anything.

You can only control what you can control. If kids look up to players it is the responsibility of the player and the organization to act correctly. It is the responsibility of the parents to point out to the children who is an idiot and why. Parents should be role models ultimately. If Manny doesn't and the team doesn't do anything about it. Who is more to blame. Manny for being an immature oaf or the club for allowing it and not having any consequences? Don't you think the club has some blame for enabling? I guarantee that if he batted .250 and his 10 hr's per year that it would not be tolerated.

Just because a guy makes lots of money doesn't mean he is mature or sophisticated.

quote:

Just because a guy makes lots of money doesn't mean he is mature or sophisticated.

...Or has good hair.



Boston should give Manny whatever he wants. If some kid looks up to him, then so be it.

Bighit is correct, sports is a big business and those who produce and help teams win can get away with behavior that we often don't find deserving or would want our children to model.

If this shocks you then you better prepare yourself for the real world, which includes HS and college sports as well.

The thing that I personally like about Manny is that the game really hasn't changed him, he's been the same aloof goofball from the beginning. Would I want my player to follow his antics, no, so I did my job as a parent and I think that my son is smart enough to know that Manny is Manny. Manny the goofball contributes HUGE to his club's success that perhaps even more talented players do not for other teams.

quote:

Originally posted by Pat H:
Professional athletes are role models, whether they like it or not. To say that kids don't look to him as a professional representative of baseball, is a lie.

Yes and No. They might be role models in that their talent took them to the highest level but they're not role models the same way yesterday's ballplayers were. Take Mickey Mantle. If Mantle played today, he'd be exposed for all the partying he did, wouldn't have beat writers covering up for him and having the public only see the goodness thru the 1960's Leave It To Beaver rose-colored glasses.

Today's kids are more sophisticated and have a world of information right at their keyboard so they can get the real deal on their so-called role models.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
…The thing that I personally like about Manny is that the game really hasn't changed him, he's been the same aloof goofball from the beginning. Would I want my player to follow his antics, no, so I did my job as a parent and I think that my son is smart enough to know that Manny is Manny. …

I think Manny proves a couple of things more people would do well to understand.

1) Its possible to work so incredibly hard in practice, when it should be done, that when getting to the game a player can be so confident and prepared he can just relax and have fun.

2) There is plenty of room in the game for players who do everything by the book and for players who march to a different drummer to both succeed enormously! Likewise, its just as possible for players of either ilk to fail enormously.

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/wide/index.ssf?/sports/wide/cc_ad.html

I think everyone understands how good a hitter Manny is.

The other night he was thrown out at 1B by a half step as he “jogged” slowly down the baseline in over 5 seconds on a ground ball deep down the 3B line. Sorry, but that is just not acceptable, even by a future hall of famer. I don’t think anybody should ever play the game that way. JMO

That said, he would hit 3rd or 4th in my lineup!

PG,
Do you think that Manny jogged on purpose trying to po management?

I repeat what I said earlier---this well be a ploy on Manny's part to get another 5 mil out of the Red Sox when they pick up his option--- And he has PAPI with him

Probably, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable. Hasn't the management paid him a fortune? He does have team mates in a pennant race.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I think everyone understands how good a hitter Manny is.

The other night he was thrown out at 1B by a half step as he “jogged” slowly down the baseline in over 5 seconds on a ground ball deep down the 3B line. Sorry, but that is just not acceptable, even by a future hall of famer. I don’t think anybody should ever play the game that way. JMO

That said, he would hit 3rd or 4th in my lineup!

Me too. Unfortunately it appears it was about a dozen half steps. His antics are tolerated as long as he is playing well and the team is winning. It appears that the teams slide is being blamed on him. Such is life. It's too bad he can't wait to receive the first $168,000,000 (over 8 years) before knowing when more i$ on the way.

I find the "works harder than anyone else" total B.S.

If he works that hard it must be all hitting and zero defense!

In any case, the lack of hustle which has always been on display with Manny, is BRUTAL.

Just look @ the "team", they are fading fast.

Fighting with his team mates,whining constantly and not hustling on close plays has got to be a major part of that!

I watch alot of RS games. He hustles sometmes, actually most of the time. His late season "vacations" are legendary, though. He apparently woke up one day recently and decided he wanted out.

One thing you can say about the Sox, they are consistent. They traded the Babe, Clemens, and now maybe Manny. Not many teams who have traded 3 of the games best. W/o Manny they still would be talking the curse of the Babe. I want to see how Papi hits without Manny in the line-up.

Papi and Manny are like peanut butter and jelly, ham and eggs, Dumb and Dummer. Actually Clemens left via free agency about 150 163 wins ago. I guess they got an extra draft pick though.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
Papi and Manny are like peanut butter and jelly, ham and eggs, Dumb and Dummer. Actually Clemens left via free agency about 150 163 wins ago. I guess they got an extra draft pick though.

When Clemens was allowed to leave via free agency he was coming off a few average seasons. There was concern he was done. Then it seems he found some magic elixar.

While I'd prefer Manny remain with the team through the season, he seems to be doing his darnest to taunt the Sox organization. He's also getting on the nerves of his teammates. There's a point where the Sox need to have some self respect and dump the moron.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
I watch alot of RS games. He hustles sometmes, actually most of the time. His late season "vacations" are legendary, though. He apparently woke up one day recently and decided he wanted out.

He's now jogging to first on live balls.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
I watch alot of RS games. He hustles sometmes, actually most of the time. His late season "vacations" are legendary, though. He apparently woke up one day recently and decided he wanted out.

He's now jogging to first on live balls.

The effort level is at an all time low. He seems to be focusing well. At least he knew the ball was in play. I haven't seen him take off from first with 1 out and 2 strikes in a long time.