Mask on or Off?

The mask will block the "inadvertant" elbow to your face and the occasional thrown ball that takes a high hop or skips.

Never Take Your Mask Off. It does not limit vision in any way.

You always keep your mask on during play on the field. About the only times you should take it off are when you're going after a pop fly and when you come off the field at the end of an inning. With a potential play at the plate, you should always be wearing the mask.

What happens the when the throw is low and you have to block it? Will you have the same approach to block that ball with your mask off as you would with the mask on? What happens when you go to block that throw in the dirt or grass and you dont have your mask on and it hits you in the face? Leave the mask on period. Take infield with the mask on , practice with the mask on.

....what they said....


Ditto, ditto, ditto.

I feel it is personal pref. but I prefer take the mask OFF!! THe runner CANNOT run you over! I could see if you where in proball then yes you probably want to keep it on. Again High School and College rules doesnt allow the runner to run the catcher over.
If that was the case why dont we run a mask out to the third baseman when he gets a bang bang play at third. Or better yet give your middle guys a mask for all steal attempts. It is NO different! Take the mask off and throw it into the sliding area forcing the runner to slide into you and not around you.

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalBaseball:
Take the mask off and throw it into the sliding area forcing the runner to slide into you and not around you.

I wouldn't recomend this technique as the opposition always notice's it and may respond accordingly the next time the catcher bats.

I'll also add that its a bad habit to take the mask off just becuase there is a HS rule that prohibits running into the catcher for three reasons: 1) You devolp a bad habit that may cost you playing a in summer tourney where they don't play the HS rules 2) Not everyone plays by the rules or even knows them. 3) you'll get your faced smashed by the runner when the throw is up the 3rd baseline and he runs into you standing up 10 feet from the plate.

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalBaseball:
THe runner CANNOT run you over!

Doesn't mean he wont. Leave the mask on. You'll play longer.

Mask on- if you get knocked over and bang your head on the ground- bad news...

The whole thing about field vision.., you see everything when a pitch is coming, so you also can when it's coming from the outfield.

I agree mostly with all of you.And the point brought up about blocking a ball was excellent.Most of the time the throw from the OF will need to be knocked down.

I think my coach was saying if I was having trouble seeing the ball,to flip the mask.He is usually for leaving it on because of close plays at the plate and sticks by the ''low man wins'' theory

Back in my younger days and I played I took the mask off at every opportunity. Nobody ever told me about the bad things that could happen with it off. Then one day a runner was coming home and he decided not to slide (remember there was no magic wall around me to enforce the rule) and this guy ended playing defensive line at Marshall University. He crushed me and his forearm found his way into my face. I thought my face exploded.

Fast foreward a couple of years and I am in my second year as a head coach of high school. My catcher is pretty good (played at Western Kentucky University) and he never took his mask off. For some reason on this one play at the plate he did. The ball took a bad hop and it kicked up and hit him in the eyebrow. It took 7 stitches to close him up. We had to throw his uniform top away because we could not get the blood off of it.

Leave the mask on. It is part of your uniform and you are used to having it on receiving pitches.

Leave the mask on.

I consider catchers athletes... a ball taking a bad hop and hitting someone in the face can happen to anyone. So I guess what your saying is the entire infield should just play with masks on. Or better yet we should change to "rubber" balls.

on or off?

youth leagues or hs field conditions vary alot and some are pretty sh***y. in that case it makes sense for a young guy developing skills to be on the safe side & leave it on, but bad hops happen at all bases so if fielding skills are bad, those helmets with the little cage thingy on the front can be worn by the whole team.



anyway, with mask on sitting STILL behind the plate vision is fine for receiving the pitch & there isn't much need for peripheral vision.

a play at the plate requires movement, alot of side vision, last second adjustments, and often the ability to make a play at another base. ditch the mask when you've aquired the skills to play.




tying run attempting to score from 2b on a single to rf, w/2 out - 2 on, 6th inn . . ACCs Jacksonville

had the runner held, UM would have had bases loaded - tying run at 3b, 2 out, top of the order
(J Weeks - 4 for 5, Giles, 2 for 5, & Jay 2 for 5) and likely forced another pitching change



.

While we know the rules state that a runner may not run over a catcher, a play at the plate is the one play where the catcher's goal is to block the plate. His goal, once he has possession of the ball, is to put his body in the basepath, in the way of the incoming runner and force the runner to take a more indirect route to the plate.

The runner on the other hand is governed by the rule that he must "slide to avoid contact".

With all that said, we see the contact at the plate all the time. Legal, but contact never the less. The difference beteeen the catcher and the rest of the infielders is that he IS trying to put his body in the way of the runner. He IS looking to block the progress of the runner with his body. All of the other infielders are not doing that when they make a tag. They are not dropping to their knees and throwing their body into the runners path. That is why they do not need the protective gear.

The catcher is the only player that routinely places his body in harms way in this manner. I can think of no reason to shed a vital piece of protection.

I get a half a dozen emails a year about catchers of all ages sustaining eye injuries or having teeth knocked out on plays at the plate.

As far as the issue of the visibility on plays around the field I think the designs used in the "Hockey Goalie" style helmets have cleared much of that up. When is the last time you saw a hockey goalie remove his helmet to handle a slapshot from his left or right?

Coaches, for the safety of your players face, eyes, teeth, and head.....have them keep the masks on.

Thank You CatchingCoach, Nuff Said.

Pro's will remove it because of habit and because the old masks were a visual hinderence.

jmo catching coach

the above play likely would not have been made with "mask on", as catcher was in the air receiving a throw from rf, while "sensing" the runners position, and figuring out how to make the play when arriving back on earth.

the catcher must also be prepared to quickly locate a ball that skips away - mask/helmet hinders that.


also, check some photos of mask position after catcher's throw to 2b, mask is usually sideways, top pad covering eyes. (I'll try to find some)

hockey irrelevant - living in "hockeyland" you surely have observed that the goalie always "faces up" to the puck, even if he doesn't have time to square-up the body - ie: he's NEVER looking right when the puck is coming left

tho, I'll agree you CAN teach that it should be left on, later on someone will likely change what you taught.




coachric, pros don't do anything "just" because of habit -
if they do it, it works & they also play by different rules re runner contact


.

THe last thing you want to teach a catcher is to take the "blow" they need to apply the "blow"...like any other fielder they need to get in and roll out of the "congested" area. They should not fall or drop to their knees if at all possible...that is the most vulnerable position in all of athletics. Unless of course the play calls for you to leave your feet and your infielders ARE (at times) having to dive (leaving their feet) into the baseline to make a tag.

From the Seattle Times

"Like any veteran catcher, Johjima has been hurt numerous times, including three or four fractures, "all caused by foul balls."

He also had a broken nose but when asked if a foul ball smashed his face mask, he said it happened on a bang-bang collision with a runner trying to score. "I should have kept my mask on," he said. "I need a mask."

http://www.isbl.com/isbl_2004/gazette/Plate_Collision.gif

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050...tad_hmed.hmedium.jpg

http://images.art.com/images/products/large/10127000/10127529.jpg

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/09/10/1126367707_7591.jpg

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2004/08/13/MgPKPmHj.jpg

I could go on and on and so could anyone of you. Look closely at the final picture. Take a look at the mask in the left side of the last picture and tell me if you think Barrett is glad he kept it on. Better yet look at the runner and convince me that someone should take a mask off.

And I am not trying to say anything negative about the catchers pictured w/o the mask on in previous posts. I am sure these guys are very good at what they do. I just believe there will come a time when they will wish they had that mask on if they continue to go this route. I honestly don't think they will if they continue to catch.

Someone find me a picture of a pro with his mask off on this type of play.

I asked the catcher in our family ---mask on or mask off on a play at the plate. His answer was “mask on”. He said the only time you take the mask off is a pop up. He said runners come in with elbows up and knees up and the mask protects the catcher during these collisions.
Fungo
PS: I might add he’s currently rehabilitating from post concussion syndrome and seems to be doing fine but the doctors want him to avoid strenuous exercise and the possibility of taking another blow to the head. Yesterday the neurologist told him he shouldn’t attend instructional league and advised him to take it easy.

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalBaseball:
THe last thing you want to teach a catcher is to take the "blow" they need to apply the "blow"...like any other fielder they need to get in and roll out of the "congested" area. They should not fall or drop to their knees if at all possible...that is the most vulnerable position in all of athletics. Unless of course the play calls for you to leave your feet and your infielders ARE (at times) having to dive (leaving their feet) into the baseline to make a tag.

CoastalBaseball,

I could not agree with you more. The way I teach the play at the plate, and the way I see catchers executing it all over the country at all age levels are two different things.

Catchers are the least instructed kids on the field from high school on down. I have worked with hundreds of kids from all over the country and not one of them has shown up at my camp knowing how to to get in and roll out of the "congested" area.

As the vast majority of the coaches that visit this site coach levels from high school on down, I have always geared my posts to the reality they deal with on the field. The kids catching HS ball on down never get much instruction in the course of their team practrices. Most think that blocking the plate, means blockng the plate, take the hit. To that end I always instruct kids to keep the mask on.

quote:

if they do it, it works & they also play by different rules re runner contact

good points, & some great pics
but I understood the question to reference the "amatuer" game & what is taught & expected at the higher levels (college)

the (links to) photos I posted were those available from our games, but reflect what I saw during 1000's of college innings during the last 5 yrs. (live & direct TV)

like I said above, it's fine to teach "mask on" if that's your view, I'm not trying to change that - but it would aslo be wise to inform your student/player that it's not the ONLY way

ya sure don't need him arguing with his college coach down the road, or fearing a change in technique requested of him


jmo

added: I was hoping fungo would throw 2 cents in & he did - tho PRO techniques -
I think I have some Auburn games on tape, maybe he'll comment on if his college teaching was same as fungo jr's pro technique

.

quote:

by CC: a play at the plate is the one play where the catcher's goal is to block the plate. His goal, once he has possession of the ball, is to put his body in the basepath, in the way of the incoming runner and force the runner to take a more indirect route to the plate.

he only need block the plate/basepath if the ball/runner are arriving nearly at once & it's his only option - if he gets the ball earlier, he rotates into position to apply the tag, rotates away, shows the ball - no block, no collision -

most catchers are taught to block the basepath & plate unnecessarily as if a collision is the only option on a play there

.

Here's an interesting article from SI on catcher collisions:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/players/06/12/collisions0619/

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

by CC: a play at the plate is the one play where the catcher's goal is to block the plate. His goal, once he has possession of the ball, is to put his body in the basepath, in the way of the incoming runner and force the runner to take a more indirect route to the plate.

he only need block the plate/basepath if the ball/runner are arriving nearly at once & it's his only option - if he already has the ball, he applies the tag & rotates away - no block, no collision -

many catchers are taught to block the basepath & plate unnecessarily as if a collision is the only option on a play there

.

Bee,

Again, I agree completely,

I think I need to reread and rewrite my original statements. My goal was to answer the original question about Mask on? Mask off?. My intent was to highlight what I see routinuely from catchers at all ages. What it seems they feel is, or should be their goal.

Since catchers are rarely taught how to set up correctly, they clearly (from what I see) take their instruction from what they see MLB catchers do. When I ask catchers to demonstarate how to set up to make the tag at home nearly every student straddles the third baseline ready to "block the Plate" . That is what they feel is the correct play.

My goal is to teach them to set up in a way that will encourage the runner to go wide, after the back edge of the plate, and allow them to sweep a tag and get right up into the throwing opsition looking for another out somewhere out on the basebpaths. All this with as little contact as possible.

quote:

Again, I agree completely

me too - we really are on the same page

LO DUCA (Mets) seems pretty smart
"What I try to do is give the runner half of the plate. If he sees half the plate, he's going to slide; if he doesn't see any of the plate, he's going to run you over."


ps - fungo, a speedy recovery for jr
pps - was once checked by one o' them neurologists & he found NOTHING, NADA, ZIP-0!!


.

Thanks for the link CollegeParent. Notice what Mike Matheny said???
MIKE MATHENY Giants catcher
"The worst hit I've had was in the minors, in Double A against the Cardinals farm team," Matheny recalls. "They had Paul Coleman. He wasn't big [5'11", 200 pounds], but he was fast. I didn't want to show I was hurt, but I was. It was the last out, so I got up and started going to the dugout. Only it was their dugout. What I learned that day was never to flip my mask off. I keep it on all the time for protection.

fungo, my jr worked out with Matheney -
he said knives were much more dangerous than plate collisions


.

Thanks for the great pictures and links everybody.Im going to give some of these to my coach so he can show the other guys a little bit of this.

Futurecatcher,
You came on and asked a very good question.
You received some good advice from dads whose sons are catchers.

I recognized the guy in purple (sliding into home plate), 5'10 inches and 185 lbs. Lot different than a 250 pounder coming at you like a freight train. Read the article from SI.

Unless you are experienced enough (most catchers have a lot to learn),or your coach has taught you very well about some of the things discussed here, keep your mask on.

Look there are times when the mask comes off and there are times when the mask stays on. When it stays on it's because it's safer.

Take mask off moments

1. Popups - the way the ball moves while in the air you are able to see more of the sky without the mask on
2. After blocking / missing the ball coming in from outfield / relay - You have got to find the runners on base and make sure there are no other plays to be made. Being able to see the field is better
3. Directing traffic / making calls to IF - sometimes you are not in the play and you need to be the communication leader on the field

Leave mask on moments

1. Potential play at the plate - you NEVER know when the runner is going to plow you. If your face is strong enough go ahead and take the mask off. The mask is not going to make the collision feel better (it still hurts) but you stay away from major damage to your face.

Moments when you can leave the mask on or take off

1. Fielding bunts - when you come out of the catchers box and have to pick up the ball and throw to a base.

Also, look at the evolution of the catchers masks.

1. THe first modern model was heavy and a combination model. Catchers took the mask off because it was uncomfortable. When you had to move there was a chance the mask would move or even come completely off because it was so heavy it could not stay on the head. You don't want to come out fielding a bunt and have to bend over to pick ball up and your mask fall off

2. The next model was a lighter mask and would stay on the head better. Still fielding a bunt would mean the mask would fall off and be in the way

3. The latest model is the hockey style mask. It is lightweight and stays on the head no matter what you try. Now if you come out on a bunt the mask is no longer a factor.

Leave the mask on when there is the chace of a runner coming in with face covered.

In my high school coaching years, we spent countless hours instructing catchers on how to get the out at home and rotate out of the collision zone. Catching coach has described in detail what will assist young catchers and coaches. He brings great knowledge and service to this site.
Bee, tell a 22-25 yr old pro receiver to suddenly leave his mask on after removing it since he was 9-10. He will tell you he's comfortable doing it his way. Thats called habit.
Younger catchers today are being taught wearing the hockey style masks which don't rotate as much on throw downs and provide for much better vision of the field.
I have worked wit some college catchers in the past that thought they looked dorky with the mask on during fielding plays, they wanted to look more maucho of course.

ric, I'm not telling 25 yr olds anything, I offerd opinions based on observations -
you may not like the observations -
you may want it them to be otherwise -

in 9 thru 12 yr old games I've seen in the last few yrs, the goalie mask is a rarity. most of those catchers will remove the mask at ANY oportunity.

fungo, is jr still wearing "hockey style"?

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You talk about not changing because that is the way it has always been done well how about this

1. When they introduced the over the head free throw was met with disdain by the tried and true "granny shooters"

2. The drop kick was basically dropped in favor of a holder (although Doug Flutie could have a new career it was still a novelty)

3. Those stupid batting helmets were probably a pain in the butt and not very macho to the "old school" players

4. Dick Fosbury was probably made fun of with his flop until he went to the olympics in 1968 and won GOLD (look it up if you have no idea)

5. What was Phil Knight thinking when he put his rubber soled shoe onto the waffle maker and created a shoe empire that dramatically affects the world culture

In case you haven't gotten the picture yet there are countless stories where change was revolutionary or thought to be dumb and now it is what we accept. I understand that there are times when a catcher HAS to take the mask off but if there is a chance of a collision or injury then we need to increase the percentages of being safe and not worry about being cool and macho.

I respect catchercoach and what he has offered but he sounds like he is the only one who teaches proper technique in catching. Sorry to say this but he is not the only one who does that. I teach everything he is talking about PLUS keeping the mask on.

When you have an adult who is catching (professional and college) then it is up to him because he should have the knowledge of what the risks are BUT a little league kid has no clue nor skills to play catcher safely. He has to learn and why not keep him safe in the process. Why take the chance of an injury forcing an 11 year old kid away from the game because they tossed the mask and he gets hit in the face. Now he is scared to get back there.

Keep the mask on

Bee,
He does use the hockey style mask. This is the exact model he uses which allows great peripheral vision.

This really sounds like a no-brainer. If you can catch a 90mph fastball while a guy is swinging a bat inches from your face then how hard is it to see a ball flying in from the outfield?

Sure as heck wouldnt bet on slide or avoid rules to protect a player from injury.

With some runners thinking its their right to turn the catcher in to roadkill keep the thing on.

if you can see a ball coming from 60 feet with it on you can see it from 180 feet... it will protect you if needed and keep you from losing all your teeth in a collision

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalBaseball:
THe last thing you want to teach a catcher is to take the "blow" they need to apply the "blow"...like any other fielder they need to get in and roll out of the "congested" area. They should not fall or drop to their knees if at all possible...that is the most vulnerable position in all of athletics. Unless of course the play calls for you to leave your feet and your infielders ARE (at times) having to dive (leaving their feet) into the baseline to make a tag.

I'm going to partly dis agree. If you have the ball, and the runner is clearly going to attempt to run you over, I would drop down to one knee (right knee on the ground, left leg extended down baseline. This is because it will lower your center of gravity, and as we all know, the lowest man almost always wins. its simple physics. It also puts you in a position to block them from sliding into the plate, under the tag, because you are closer to the ground, which allows an easier tag.

I might be misunderstanding you Eagle but in no way shape form or fashion do you straighten a leg at the plate. That is when you start tearing ligaments and cartilage and all the other stuff you don't want to tear.

It doesn't matter what play it is at the plate you NEVER have your legs straight. A bent leg will bend and give with a blow but a straight leg might not bend in a blow.

On the play you are talking about I would stand on the line with my back towards firstbase and give him a very small lane to the plate. This way the collision is with my throwing arm instead of my glove arm (helps with holding onto the ball). Plus by just giving him the arms your more likely to spin at contact which will lessen the blow instead of taking the full brunt of the collision.