Mastery bullpen??

Perhaps working and mastering one pitch type and location before one moves to the next might be the ultimate goal for most.

I am not sure I would want to do this. I have no issue with throwing the 4 seam/2 seam to mastery and the change up. When you get into throwing curves or sliders I think it could structurally cause some problems throwing CB after CB. I do like Mastery BP though. I might even try it tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Perhaps working and mastering one pitch type and location before one moves to the next might be the ultimate goal for most.

I keep seeing people say this. It never made any sense to me.

You can't get anyone out throwing just a FB, unless you are throwing gas.

Little Sultan always threw 10+ grips every BP, starting as a 11 yo. He only threw the pitches that were working (which varied by week) in a game. Ex. he can throw a 4 seam curve, then follow up with a 2 seam curve, so it looks different. If his changeup stops working in a game, he switches to something else. If they are hammering his fastball, he can use a split-finger. etc. etc.

Also, we only used one baseball at home, so he had to go get it when he missed

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Perhaps working and mastering one pitch type and location before one moves to the next might be the ultimate goal for most.

I keep seeing people say this. It never made any sense to me.

You can't get anyone out throwing just a FB, unless you are throwing gas.

You must be kidding.

From the early stages of when my son was 10 he threw at least two different pitches all the time in games. The few kids who just threw fastballs, even up through HS get hammered regularly.

Learning to master at least two different pitches up through HS is pretty much the norm wherever one goes in the country.

As for the mastery hitting suggested, sounds novel. We do it where they must hit so many line drives, sac bunts, hit and runs, etc. Usually best out of 5 or 10.

Boy, did the post from one of the very best coaches for developing JC, college and now Milb pitchers get lost.
I read Ryno's question asking about bullpens. Seems pretty clear.
Here is what Jerry Weinstein posted and what PGStaff gave a wringing endorsement:

"3. IMO we fail miserably early in the development process of pitchers, especially in developing pitchers who can stay healthy & posess control & command.The most egregious mistake we make is trying develop thowers into pitchers before they become proficient throwers.(It's about developing an efficient movement pattern before we change the goal to more of one that is target oriented.)Once you have developed a mechanical model that fits that individual pitcher( Lots of standard deviation here.The is no one model that fits everyone. It is very individualized.Look at Lincecum/Osawlt/Halliday etc.)& the individual pitcher has mastered that movement pattern to the point that he can repeat it consistently, he is ready to start the pitch development/location process. Below is a suggested mini progression for developing the ability to hit your target(LOCATE)with the fastball being your most important foundational pitch.

1. Develop the 4 seam fastball down over the middle of the plate.(Mid thigh to just below the knees) Goal 70% strikes for x # of pens/games etc.
2. Develop the 2 seam fastball down over the middle of the plate. Same goals
3. Develop the fastball in & out & down in the zone with 2 & 4 seam fastballs. Goal 65% strikes.
4. Develop the hand high fastball for strikes. Goal 55% strikes
5. Develop the change down over the middle of the plate. Goal 65% strikes.

DO NOT MOVE ON UNTIL YOU HAVE MASTERED EACH LEVEL.For example you must own (not rent) the bottom middle of the strike zone before you move to the outer edges"

Ryno23, Jerry Weinstein was a long time highly successful coach at Sacramento JC. He then went on and was equally successful at Cal Polo San Luis Obispo. In 2012, he will be on the coaching staff of the Colorado Rockies MLB team.

If you are looking at how to do/coach bullpens, there are not many better coaches to provide a template and this is a very easy template from which to work.

No one said anything about not having another pitch. As previously discussed any other pitch should compliment the FB, which we all know should be the primary pitch for any pitcher.

I was responding to the statement that "one can't get anyone out just throwing a FB, unless you throw gas", and that is not always the case. If you throw it right down the pike, it's gonna get hit. A pitcher can use his 2 seam with various grips for movement to make the ball do many different things, and if you learn to sink it, you get people out that way, no? Some can do the same with their 4 seam as well. So if you can do these things with a FB, why does an 11 year old need different grips for a curveball?

One statement you made, he threw the pitches that week that were working (?), which varied week to week? Why wasn't he just learning to get really better at one pitch and make it work every week? Then he could move on to the next? IMO, I do beleive this is the model used by most coaches who work towards developing pitchers, not developing throwers.

If a pitcher learns from an early age how to make his FB work in different ways, he can use those pitches to get people out before even learning a second pitch, we all know by the time he reaches a certain stage he needs another pitch. The more that a young pitcher relies on other pitches to do other things, the more his FB development suffers.
I think in the location topic a good bullpen routine for pitchers was suggested by Jerry Weinberg.
Not sure about the OQ to begin with, bullpens are completely different than batting practice because all pitchers are different.

Infielddad, thanks for posting JW's suggestions.

Thanks, Infielddad. The JW information is exactly what I'm looking for and looking into.

To further clarify the reason for my OQ...imagine I've got a young developing high school pitcher who has a live arm, but can't locate. We throw his first set of approx. 7 whole-plate fastballs and he throws two strikes. Does he deserve/need to move onto fastballs to his glove side, low and away (or any other pitch/location)?

I know developing other pitches and locating all pitches is important. We all do. And I'm not interested in making this the ONLY type bullpen we throw. But I like drills and activities at practice that pressure players to perform and that is why I wanted to see if any of you use this type of bullpen.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and help.

Keep in mind that lots of changes take place as the pitcher's body grows and matures. At that point you need to make mechanical adjustments, but IMO, unless you know exactly what you are doing, don't do it. He doesn't have to be perfect every pitch, what he does need to do is feel comfortable and stay on top of the ball, important. I think he was suggesting you hit the bottom half more consistantly before one moves onto the corners, etc. Do you think that pitchers hit the intended location everytime they throw a pitch?

I hope that someone (qualified and not necessarily over the internet) can help you as to why he possibly is struggling.

I think that JW's bullpen is excellent.