We are building a new field. The rule book specifies a minimum of 10 inches. One coach wants the height to be 15 inches. Is there a max limit?
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quote:Originally posted by johnsonroj:
We are building a new field. The rule book specifies a minimum of 10 inches. One coach wants the height to be 15 inches. Is there a max limit?
The book says 10" above home plate. No more, no less.
Is this ever enforced in any way? And how would it be enforced?
We've all been to fields with giant mounds that are obviously over 10". What can an umpire do about this? Or is it something that would have to be protested?
We've all been to fields with giant mounds that are obviously over 10". What can an umpire do about this? Or is it something that would have to be protested?
quote:Originally posted by johnsonroj:
We are building a new field. The rule book specifies a minimum of 10 inches. One coach wants the height to be 15 inches. Is there a max limit?
What book would that be?
As Dash indicated there is no such minimum.
quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:
Is this ever enforced in any way? And how would it be enforced?
We've all been to fields with giant mounds that are obviously over 10". What can an umpire do about this? Or is it something that would have to be protested?
We've been told by state officials that any complaints from a coach should be referred to the AD of the offending school.
That book would be the NFHS rule book.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:
Is this ever enforced in any way? And how would it be enforced?
We've all been to fields with giant mounds that are obviously over 10". What can an umpire do about this? Or is it something that would have to be protested?
We've been told by state officials that any complaints from a coach should be referred to the AD of the offending school.
What's he supposed to do about it? What is the deterrent for a pitching heavy school building a 15" mound?
quote:Originally posted by johnsonroj:
That book would be the NFHS rule book.
Nope. Here is the quote regarding mound height straight from the NFHS rule book:
The top of the pitcher's plate must be 10 inches above the top surface of home plate.
quote:Originally posted by johnsonroj:
That book would be the NFHS rule book.
Nothing in that book establishes a "minimum" of 10 inches.
quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:
Is this ever enforced in any way? And how would it be enforced?
We've all been to fields with giant mounds that are obviously over 10". What can an umpire do about this? Or is it something that would have to be protested?
We've been told by state officials that any complaints from a coach should be referred to the AD of the offending school.
What's he supposed to do about it? What is the deterrent for a pitching heavy school building a 15" mound?
If the AD doesn't have the ethical where-with-all to correct a violation of the rules, then the complainant goes to the head of the league and then to the state.
If all those folks condone cheating, not much an umpire can do about it.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
If all those folks condone cheating, not much an umpire can do about it.
If it were brought up at the plate meeting, I would ask the visiting coach (who would probably bring it up) if he wants to play on the field. If he does, we play.
If he doesn't want to play, I'll say "Then we're done here," give the baseballs back to HC, and walk back to my car.
Either way, I will file a report with the state when I get home. Let them check into it.
I should point out that I probably wouldn't know a 10-inch mound from a 15-inch mound. I certainly don't carry a ruler, and I usually leave my laser sight in the basement. If the away coach wants to protest the mound height, I'll let him deal with the state on it.
Not to stir the pot but the natural lay of the land can change the perception of mound height. If the infield slopes up hill toward home the mound looks high and the reverse would be true. The mound is not the only issue at play. 10" drop from rubber to plate.
this is one of those things that happens in all sports...oftentimes we have to go with the assumption that the field/court is regulation...is it really 60'6"?....is the mound 10 inches...0r 11 0r 9?....
My son also played basketball in HS...at his HS gym, he could dunk at one end of the court and not at the other....clearly one hoop was not regulation...
Now I often call games on fields of lesser quality....its sometimes clear the bases are not set to exact regulation...I know of one where the second base bag is clearly further towards the out field that it should be....but the base post was sent in concrete 20 years ago....so..
The well meaning HS maintenence staff cuts the grass, drags the infield and lines the field ....and that is the best that that HS can do.....
My son also played basketball in HS...at his HS gym, he could dunk at one end of the court and not at the other....clearly one hoop was not regulation...
Now I often call games on fields of lesser quality....its sometimes clear the bases are not set to exact regulation...I know of one where the second base bag is clearly further towards the out field that it should be....but the base post was sent in concrete 20 years ago....so..
The well meaning HS maintenence staff cuts the grass, drags the infield and lines the field ....and that is the best that that HS can do.....
quote:Originally posted by piaa_ump:
this is one of those things that happens in all sports...oftentimes we have to go with the assumption that the field/court is regulation...is it really 60'6"?....is the mound 10 inches...0r 11 0r 9?....
My son also played basketball in HS...at his HS gym, he could dunk at one end of the court and not at the other....clearly one hoop was not regulation...
Now I often call games on fields of lesser quality....its sometimes clear the bases are not set to exact regulation...I know of one where the second base bag is clearly further towards the out field that it should be....but the base post was sent in concrete 20 years ago....so..
the HS maintenence staff..cuts the grass, drags the infield and lines the field .... the best that that HS can do.....
This is very true. When I was in KY I took over the program but never gave it much thought about the field. It just looked right. After a few seasons we were doing some work on the field and for some reason measured the bases. First base was actually 92 feet and about half the bag was in foul territory. Third base was 91 feet and was about 8 inches in fair territory. A field can truly look like it's legitimate but be way off once you start throwing around tape measures and string.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
If the AD doesn't have the ethical where-with-all to correct a violation of the rules, then the complainant goes to the head of the league and then to the state.
If all those folks condone cheating, not much an umpire can do about it.
So what is the AD supposed to do? Forfeit the game? I really don't know. This just seems like the worst way possible to enforce the rule.
That is the way to enforce the rule. It requires a transit to check and even if it is wrong, you aren't rebuilding a mound before the game. You inform the AD and get him to fix it. The less precise way to check is a rule, string and line level, but I would never build a mound that way. I built a mound a couple of years ago, we checked before removal. It was 16" above home. We dropped it to 10" and it looked like a zit. The pitcher complained and we ended raising it just so it looked correct.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by johnsonroj:
That book would be the NFHS rule book.
Nothing in that book establishes a "minimum" of 10 inches.
Jimmy, are you saying there is no standard height minimum? (or maximum)
quote:Originally posted by Gold Glove:
Jimmy, are you saying there is no standard height minimum? (or maximum)
From 1-2-6: The top of the pitcher's plate must be 10 inches above the top surface of home plate.
"must be" means the minimum and maximum is 10 inches.
quote:Originally posted by Gold Glove:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by johnsonroj:
That book would be the NFHS rule book.
Nothing in that book establishes a "minimum" of 10 inches.
Jimmy, are you saying there is no standard height minimum? (or maximum)
That's correct. There is a stated height of 10", period. It is not a "minimum", which would mean that it could be higher. It is not a "maximum" which would mean it could be lower. It is to be 10" above home plate.
Since I haven't bothered you guys with a lot of stupid questions this year (probably because you've answered them all in previous years), I'll bite on this one.
Son is a pitcher. He frequently talks about mound differences. From the naked eye, I've seen mounds vary at least 50% in height.
Do you call in a surveyor when laying out your field? How do you build it correctly? I've seen "pitcher's pitcher's mounds" that were about 2 1/2' tall. It looked like every pitcher was 8' tall, throwing downhill. Some looked like we were playing softball.
I see the discussion on base lengths and wonder how many of these fields are "not quite right" and if it really matters if its off by a foot.
At our own field, son was cleaning up after practice on Saturday and was getting some poop about pulling second base out. He then pulled really hard and the whole cement block came up with the base (he's not quite right). They decided to reseat today, without a full knowledge of 90*SQRT(2) from HP and in perfect line with 3rd and 1st. I think they used the hole to decide where to put it. I'll be a little worried sitting behind home plate this week if they don't line up.
With all this random error, those balls that are a few inches foul eat at you just a little bit more.
Son is a pitcher. He frequently talks about mound differences. From the naked eye, I've seen mounds vary at least 50% in height.
Do you call in a surveyor when laying out your field? How do you build it correctly? I've seen "pitcher's pitcher's mounds" that were about 2 1/2' tall. It looked like every pitcher was 8' tall, throwing downhill. Some looked like we were playing softball.
I see the discussion on base lengths and wonder how many of these fields are "not quite right" and if it really matters if its off by a foot.
At our own field, son was cleaning up after practice on Saturday and was getting some poop about pulling second base out. He then pulled really hard and the whole cement block came up with the base (he's not quite right). They decided to reseat today, without a full knowledge of 90*SQRT(2) from HP and in perfect line with 3rd and 1st. I think they used the hole to decide where to put it. I'll be a little worried sitting behind home plate this week if they don't line up.
With all this random error, those balls that are a few inches foul eat at you just a little bit more.
I checked my mound last fall and its the shortest mound I see all year... It was 11.5 inches... Due to erosion it's prob about 11.2 right now ... I hope you don't think I'm a cheating son ova gun.
quote:Originally posted by JMoff:
Since I haven't bothered you guys with a lot of stupid questions this year (probably because you've answered them all in previous years), I'll bite on this one.
Son is a pitcher. He frequently talks about mound differences. From the naked eye, I've seen mounds vary at least 50% in height.
Do you call in a surveyor when laying out your field? How do you build it correctly? I've seen "pitcher's pitcher's mounds" that were about 2 1/2' tall. It looked like every pitcher was 8' tall, throwing downhill. Some looked like we were playing softball.
I see the discussion on base lengths and wonder how many of these fields are "not quite right" and if it really matters if its off by a foot.
At our own field, son was cleaning up after practice on Saturday and was getting some poop about pulling second base out. He then pulled really hard and the whole cement block came up with the base (he's not quite right). They decided to reseat today, without a full knowledge of 90*SQRT(2) from HP and in perfect line with 3rd and 1st. I think they used the hole to decide where to put it. I'll be a little worried sitting behind home plate this week if they don't line up.
With all this random error, those balls that are a few inches foul eat at you just a little bit more.
You don't need a surveyer, but a builder's level is quite handy. This looks like a surveyor's transit but is simply a level. You can rent them if you don't have access to one. An electronic one can be used by yourself with no help, a sighttube type requires two people. Set it up off to one side of the infield and shoot the plate. Then shoot the mound and you should have 10 inches of difference.
As far as setting bases, pull a string from the point of the plate to the foul pole. Then measure down that line 90ft and the back edge of the base goes at the 90ft mark. The foul side of the bag should touch the foul line. Once they are set you can double check by measuring from back point to back point and it should be 127'3 3/8"
Then pull from the foul side of the bags 90 ft and mark where they intersect. Again doublecheck the 127' 3 3/8 from the point of plate to the intersection. That is the center of second. Simple, right?
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
I checked my mound last fall and its the shortest mound I see all year... It was 11.5 inches... Due to erosion it's prob about 11.2 right now ... I hope you don't think I'm a cheating son ova gun.
I've seen some mounds so high that you need a mountain sherpa guide and a yak to carry your glove and ball up the side to the top. But I don't worry about stuff like this as long as it's maintained. No hole in front of the rubber or where the foot lands. Both pitchers have to pitch from it. There is a homefield advantage in that the other guy has pitched on it before but if my guy can't get used to it then he's not a very good pitcher. Being able to adjust to the different mounds is pretty important.
All California umpires check mounds before the game. Standard practice. Here is one checking out our field before our last game.
The new "in" alteration I'm seeing with mounds is "shaving off" the first and third base side of the mound so that it is a veritable cliff instead of a gradual slope.
The home team pitchers who practice on the mound have a distinct advantage on pick-off attempts.
The home team pitchers who practice on the mound have a distinct advantage on pick-off attempts.
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
All California umpires check mounds before the game. Standard practice. Here is one checking out our field before our last game.
Don't even joke about that. Someone in Indianapolis will see that post and add it to the duties of umpires.
quote:Originally posted by JMoff:
With all this random error, those balls that are a few inches foul eat at you just a little bit more.
It evens out with the balls that are a few inches fair on the other fields.
quote:You don't need a surveyer, but a builder's level is quite handy. This looks like a surveyor's transit but is simply a level. You can rent them if you don't have access to one. An electronic one can be used by yourself with no help, a sighttube type requires two people. Set it up off to one side of the infield and shoot the plate. Then shoot the mound and you should have 10 inches of difference.
As far as setting bases, pull a string from the point of the plate to the foul pole. Then measure down that line 90ft and the back edge of the base goes at the 90ft mark. The foul side of the bag should touch the foul line. Once they are set you can double check by measuring from back point to back point and it should be 127'3 3/8"
Then pull from the foul side of the bags 90 ft and mark where they intersect. Again doublecheck the 127' 3 3/8 from the point of plate to the intersection. That is the center of second. Simple, right?
That's basically how we used to set up the fields before club ball practice back when bases progressed from 70-80 and then 90' and we practiced on softball fields, only I used a semi-calibrated pacing method instead of a measuring tape. Paced off first and third using the foul line then baselength X SQRT(2) for second base, paced off from the back of the plate over the pitching mound. It came out pretty close and if you only wanted to invest 5 minutes to set up, it was close enough.
Some of these fields don't even seem like they invest the 5 minutes. Much less the time required to lay them out correctly.